Real Estate Sales Agents Commissions

[kuma]

Happy holidays:

 

What experience have members had with Sales Agents and the % fee they charge for selling your home / condo?

 

My understanding is that 3% is the norm, that for sure has been my experience for a long time now.

 

Some people are telling me there are agents now asking for 5%, which would be a 67% increase in fees....what is that!?

 

Have any others run into this?

 

Cheers

[couchpotato]

48 minutes ago, kuma said:

Happy holidays:

 

What experience have members had with Sales Agents and the % fee they charge for selling your home / condo?

 

My understanding is that 3% is the norm, that for sure has been my experience for a long time now.

 

Some people are telling me there are agents now asking for 5%, which would be a 67% increase in fees....what is that!?

 

Have any others run into this?

 

Cheers

3% used to be usual fee, but 5% has been the asked for norm for a very long time now. You can of course negotiate, but most Agencies won't go below 5%.

Edited December 26, 2023 by couchpotato

[scubascuba3]

i would try to sell on facebook marketplace for 0%, agents do the same anyway, get professional photos done, and don't forget to remove the mop, agents do

[OneMoreFarang]

I think a huge problem in Thailand is the fact that it seems everybody can be a "property agent". I.e. a laundry shop in our condominium has papers with property pictures from within the building in their window. Ask her about one of those properties and she wants to full 3% commission from the owner - without any property expertise.

Same thing with some people who work in the building management, security guards, etc.

 

I sold a property in Europe. The professional property agent had lots of expenses to sell my property. I.e. he hired a professional company with laser measurement system to measure the property exactly so that later there was no issue if it was 120 sqm or maybe only 118.3 sqm.

He advertised and showed many people around the property, he paid for energy efficiency analysis and all these things. All for a fixed commission.

 

In Thailand: I want 3% - for almost no work at all.

So maybe ask the agents what they will do to sell your property to the highest bidder and how they will find those people. Instead of telling you that you should lower the price so that he can sell it to the first person who asks. 

 

[Celsius]

If you hire an agent you can do a contract like this. 5% comission if the property sells within 30 days of signing a contract. Back to 3% afterwards.

[Henryford]

5% is a joke here, for doing virtually nothing. One even used the photos i had taken ! In the UK i was used to paying 1-2% max. And for that they produced glossy brochures with photos and details of the property.

[newnative]

We just had this topic on a recent thread.  To recap and save us all some time:

 

1.  Some posts saying 3% is normal and a number saying they would never pay more than 3% commission.

2.  Some posts indicating agents are lazy and don't do much to earn their commission.

3.  Some contrarian posts saying 5% is standard with established agencies but lower commissions can be negotiated.

4.  A few contrarian posts indicating that legitimate agents work hard for their commissions.

5.  Some posts saying they sold their properties without using an agent at all.

6.  Some posts saying rent, don't buy.

 

    My take, speaking with a bit of experience, both here and in the US.  With no MLS (Multiple Listing Service), my spouse and I list with as many agencies as we can, with 5% as the starting commission.  With most agencies, there is no formal contract involved. 

    The point is to get as much exposure as possible, have your property shown, rather than someone else's, and get it sold as quickly as possible, at a profit.  If you're an agent with a client, are you going to take the buyer to see a condo with a 5% commission or a 3% commission?  If I were an agent, God forbid, I'm heading for the 5% property.  In one case when we wanted a fast sale and there were a number of similar condos on the market, not only did we pay 5% but we also sweetened the deal with an agent bonus, on top of the agency fee.

    Commissions are negotiable, of course.  A seller has more leeway, I feel, with a 10 million baht unique property than with a 2 million baht nothing special condo in a project with a 1000 of them.  Our last sale was a house in the 10 million baht range and the agency dropped from 5% to 3% to make the deal work.

    We have sold a number of properties in Thailand.  Although we list on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace, we have, so far, never sold a property using either.   We'll keep trying because you never know--which is also why we list with as many agencies as we can.  You never know who might walk into what agency looking for just what you have to sell.

    Occasionally, we get lucky and sell a property ourselves.  This happened with the last condo we sold.  My spouse noticed a couple looking at the listings in the lobby and he chatted them up, telling them we had a condo for sale.  They came to look, liked it, and bought it.  If they were only all that easy. . .

    The vast majority of our sales, however, have been through the hard work of real estate agencies and their agents.  My spouse and I are not social butterflies.  We do not have a vast network of people that we know here in Thailand that can spread the word to the right people that we have a property for sale.  In other words, nobody's going to drum up buyers for us.  We depend on the agences to find us those buyers--and, they do.   This method has worked well for us--others may have a different way that works for them.  

     I think I mentioned in the other thread that I am way too lazy to do all the hard work that a legitimate agent does--usually with no payoff.  The 'usually with no payoff' part would drive me absolutely nuts.  "I've done all this work for nothing!!!"  Not for me.  I've said many times I would not last a week as an agent and I suspect that most of the posters saying agents don't do much would not, either.   Thank goodness for them, though.

 

 

 

 

[PJ71]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

 I think I mentioned in the other thread that I am way too lazy to do all the hard work that a legitimate agent does

What hard work do the agents do?

 

post some pictures, make some calls and occasionally take people for viewings..

 

5% is way to much IMO.

[bkk6060]

Real Estate agents here and especially in the west are overpaid lazy jokes.

A place like California now 5% with home prices is around 50k dollars.

That is a year wages for many people and maybe these agents put in 80 hours at the most for listing/ advertising properties. 

Here, kind of the same what do they do for 5% but put your property on their website. Or, maybe a photo of your property hanging in the window of their shop.  Wow.  And,  trying to make an appt. to see a property is a hassle if they ever return phone calls or emails.

It is all poorly managed here no multiple listing, no readily available comps, expired listing on their websites.  

Maybe better off trying to sell it yourself.

Edited December 27, 2023 by bkk6060

[newnative]

10 hours ago, Henryford said:

5% is a joke here, for doing virtually nothing. One even used the photos i had taken ! In the UK i was used to paying 1-2% max. And for that they produced glossy brochures with photos and details of the property.

     Umm.  'Glossy brochures' ?  Welcome to the 1980s--I remember my real estate agent sister doing glossy brochures way back then.  Ahh, the good old days.   Here in the 21st century, agencies will not only post properties on their websites, with descriptions and photos, but some are also producing videos.  With our last property sale, at least four of the bigger agencies sent their videography team out to produce a video, hosted and narrated by one of the agents. This in addition to a number of them sending their phtographer for photos.

     If you think it's a breeze to do one of these videos and there's no work involved, think again.   The process with some of the videos took several hours or more, usually with a walk-thru either the day before or earlier in the day before the video team arrived, to learn about the property and prepare the narration.  In one case they came back a second time to do early evening lighting.  After watching the process several times, my spouse and I both decided we would end up tongue-tied messes trying to smoothly move through the house while on camera while trying to remember everything to talk about and highlight.  If a video looks easy and effortless, a lot of work was involved behind the scenes.

    A well-produced video, made available on the agency website and sometimes also on Youtube, can be a good selling tool for a property.   It can also be helpful to give a buyer a better look at a property than just photos, before actually going to see it.  If a property doesn't suit after watching the video, the agent and buyer can move on and not waste a trip.  Also helpful to pre-screen potential properties to look at before a buyer arrives in town to save time--and appointments can be set up in advance.   All work, and nothing lazy me wants to do.

    By the way, there's absolutely nothing wrong with an agency using a client's photos.  Along with a detailed description, I always send good photos that show my property well and I am happy if an agency uses them.  Some do, while others prefer to send their own photographer to do the photos--or, as I said, a video, as well.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, PJ71 said:

What hard work do the agents do?

 

post some pictures, make some calls and occasionally take people for viewings..

 

5% is way to much IMO.

I'll put you and bkk6060 down for:

2.  Some posts indicating agents are lazy and don't do much to earn their commission.

 

Not true for most legitimate agents and agencies but believe what you will.  Henryford gets a pass because, judging from his quaint post, he might just be the Henry Ford.

[PJ71]

52 minutes ago, newnative said:

I'll put you and bkk6060 down for:

2.  Some posts indicating agents are lazy and don't do much to earn their commission.

 

Not true for most legitimate agents and agencies but believe what you will.  Henryford gets a pass because, judging from his quaint post, he might just be the Henry Ford.

This is my personal experience.

 

I sold a house in about 2015 / 16, i went round most of the popular agents in Pattaya ( about 4 or 5 i think ), all of them ( yes, ALL ) told me to bring a flash drive with pictures.

 

none of them sold it, word of mouth sold it.

 

Bought a condo about 2011 based on a sign being draped over their balcony with a phone number, no agent involved. Owners had given up with agents.

 

Therefore i am not 'indicating' they are lazy, it's a fact based on my experience.

 

I could relay more stories of friends but that would be second hand info but they're similar to mine.

[SAFETY FIRST]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

Not true for most legitimate agents

A legitimate agent, rare as hens teeth. 

 

Seems to be a lot of foreigners selling properties part time. 

 

If you're a good talker (bullsh1ter, scammer), lacking ethics and sincerity you can make a lot of money. 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by SAFETY FIRST

[kuma]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:12 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I think a huge problem in Thailand is the fact that it seems everybody can be a "property agent". I.e. a laundry shop in our condominium has papers with property pictures from within the building in their window. Ask her about one of those properties and she wants to full 3% commission from the owner - without any property expertise.

Same thing with some people who work in the building management, security guards, etc.

 

I sold a property in Europe. The professional property agent had lots of expenses to sell my property. I.e. he hired a professional company with laser measurement system to measure the property exactly so that later there was no issue if it was 120 sqm or maybe only 118.3 sqm.

He advertised and showed many people around the property, he paid for energy efficiency analysis and all these things. All for a fixed commission.

 

In Thailand: I want 3% - for almost no work at all.

So maybe ask the agents what they will do to sell your property to the highest bidder and how they will find those people. Instead of telling you that you should lower the price so that he can sell it to the first person who asks. 

 

Much of this resonates. It seems there is very little in terms of effort expended, yet the 3 to 5% fee increase is a 70%!! increase in costs - amazing. I too have used agents back in NA to manage my properties that I rented, and then to sell them. Indeed they do quite a bit of work and there is effort expended - and the rate is most times split between two  agents (not really the case here) and is lower as well as graduated based on selling price, as per examples below:

• In the Greater Victoria Region, the commission rates for both buyer and seller agents are 3% on the first $100,000 of the home price and 1.5% on the remaining total.

• In Kelowna, buyer and seller agents charge 3.5% on the first $100,000 of the home price and 1.75% on the remaining total.

• In Nanaimo, the commission rates of both buyer and seller agents are 3.5% on the first $100,000 of the home price and 1.5% of the remaining total.

• In White Rock, the realtor commissions are 3.5% on the first $100,000 of the home price and 1.25% on the remaining total.

 

OP above mentioned how the standard here is take some photos, post to FB and wait for a buyer to appear. The suggestions of graduated commission on price, payment based on time scale, all seem to be interesting and have a merit based approach as part of the deal. Not sure that is something that is of interest in this market.

 

 

[kuma]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:39 AM, scubascuba3 said:

i would try to sell on facebook marketplace for 0%, agents do the same anyway, get professional photos done, and don't forget to remove the mop, agents do

I am looking at listing as a freelancer, whats to lose - I am not in a big rush and I just cannot countenance a 70% increase in cost - I dont see the value proposition.

[kuma]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:24 PM, newnative said:

     Umm.  'Glossy brochures' ?  Welcome to the 1980s--I remember my real estate agent sister doing glossy brochures way back then.  Ahh, the good old days.   Here in the 21st century, agencies will not only post properties on their websites, with descriptions and photos, but some are also producing videos.  With our last property sale, at least four of the bigger agencies sent their videography team out to produce a video, hosted and narrated by one of the agents. This in addition to a number of them sending their phtographer for photos.

     If you think it's a breeze to do one of these videos and there's no work involved, think again.   The process with some of the videos took several hours or more, usually with a walk-thru either the day before or earlier in the day before the video team arrived, to learn about the property and prepare the narration.  In one case they came back a second time to do early evening lighting.  After watching the process several times, my spouse and I both decided we would end up tongue-tied messes trying to smoothly move through the house while on camera while trying to remember everything to talk about and highlight.  If a video looks easy and effortless, a lot of work was involved behind the scenes.

    A well-produced video, made available on the agency website and sometimes also on Youtube, can be a good selling tool for a property.   It can also be helpful to give a buyer a better look at a property than just photos, before actually going to see it.  If a property doesn't suit after watching the video, the agent and buyer can move on and not waste a trip.  Also helpful to pre-screen potential properties to look at before a buyer arrives in town to save time--and appointments can be set up in advance.   All work, and nothing lazy me wants to do.

    By the way, there's absolutely nothing wrong with an agency using a client's photos.  Along with a detailed description, I always send good photos that show my property well and I am happy if an agency uses them.  Some do, while others prefer to send their own photographer to do the photos--or, as I said, a video, as well.

Chance here to make a plug for people that know agencies that put in decent effort. I have always used agents back home and had one in particular, who I partnered with for 17 years - who was very diligent and put in maximum effort on every transaction (sales, rentals) and as such she was a top 2% realtor in Canada, with re-max, so no slouch to get in that rarefied air. Perhaps that is my trouble, I was maybe spoiled by her professionalism, and cannot bring myself to pay more here, for what on average, is far far less service.

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, kuma said:

I am looking at listing as a freelancer, whats to lose - I am not in a big rush and I just cannot countenance a 70% increase in cost - I dont see the value proposition.

Yes nothing to lose by doing yourself, if it fails then use an agent

[newnative]

11 hours ago, PJ71 said:

This is my personal experience.

 

I sold a house in about 2015 / 16, i went round most of the popular agents in Pattaya ( about 4 or 5 i think ), all of them ( yes, ALL ) told me to bring a flash drive with pictures.

 

none of them sold it, word of mouth sold it.

 

Bought a condo about 2011 based on a sign being draped over their balcony with a phone number, no agent involved. Owners had given up with agents.

 

Therefore i am not 'indicating' they are lazy, it's a fact based on my experience.

 

I could relay more stories of friends but that would be second hand info but they're similar to mine.

       I'm glad you were able to sell your house by word of mouth--so great when you can do that.   We certainly try our best to sell every property ourselves each and every time but, with some exceptions, it's mostly been agents that have found us our buyers.  That's the fact, plain and simple. 

     If what had worked, instead, was me standing in the median on Sukhumvit in a clown suit with a sign board advertising our property, I would be passing that along as what worked.  But, it wasn't that.   What has worked for us during our 13 years here, with our multiple sales, has been listing with as many agencies as we possibly can, using email and sending good photos and a good description.  That can be 30 or more agencies, not just 4 or 5--which is too limiting.  What an agent does, or doesn't do, in finding a buyer is of no concern for us.  Sooner or later, an agent shows up with a buyer and we get a property sold.  Our experience.

      I've read the posts from you and others indicating agents are lazy, not worth the commission, etc.  Some may well be, but not all, at least in our experience with our 13 years here using them.  Bottom line--they find buyers for our properties, which allows us to move on to our next project.  That is what counts for us.  While using agencies has worked well for us, other strategies can certainly be used.  If something else works, by all means use it.  

       

     

 

      

[PJ71]

44 minutes ago, newnative said:

       I'm glad you were able to sell your house by word of mouth--so great when you can do that.   We certainly try our best to sell every property ourselves each and every time but, with some exceptions, it's mostly been agents that have found us our buyers.  That's the fact, plain and simple. 

     If what had worked, instead, was me standing in the median on Sukhumvit in a clown suit with a sign board advertising our property, I would be passing that along as what worked.  But, it wasn't that.   What has worked for us during our 13 years here, with our multiple sales, has been listing with as many agencies as we possibly can, using email and sending good photos and a good description.  That can be 30 or more agencies, not just 4 or 5--which is too limiting.  What an agent does, or doesn't do, in finding a buyer is of no concern for us.  Sooner or later, an agent shows up with a buyer and we get a property sold.  Our experience.

      I've read the posts from you and others indicating agents are lazy, not worth the commission, etc.  Some may well be, but not all, at least in our experience with our 13 years here using them.  Bottom line--they find buyers for our properties, which allows us to move on to our next project.  That is what counts for us.  While using agencies has worked well for us, other strategies can certainly be used.  If something else works, by all means use it.  

       

     

 

      

The majority are lazy, it's a fact.

[newnative]

19 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

The majority are lazy, it's a fact.

     Matters not a bit to me.  That's a fact.  I don't care if an agent takes 5 minutes to find me a buyer, 5 hours, 5 days, or 5 months.  I don't care if he finds me a buyer on the golf course or drinking a beer at a bar.  Does. Not. Matter.  As I said in my earlier post, what matters, for us, is getting a property sold.  In our experience, which may be different from yours, that has mostly involved an agent, whether lazy or not, finding a buyer, although we also try to find one ourselves.  Forgot to mention I have a slighly used clown suit if anybody needs one for marketing.

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

Forgot to mention I have a slighly used clown suit if anybody needs one for marketing.

Give it to your superstar agent(s).