The horrors endured by Hamas's hostages: Barely any food, forced to sleep on plastic chairs, waiting to be executed...

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you.

 

No I am not confused.

 

Unlike many posters I try to do some research and look at both sides.

 

What Hamas did, NOT the Palestinians, did was very bad.

 

What the IDF is doing is far worse. They are committing genocide. If you don't believe me then start reading/watching the international news channels.

 

I am not bothered what posters say or think on an insignificant English language website in Thailand, but more at what innocent people are suffering in Gaza.

 

Look at how many people world wide feel something similar to the way that I feel, and there are hundreds of thousands of them in many countries across the world, governments included.

 

They are condemning Israel every day.

Pure deflection. This topic is about the hostages

[ozimoron]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Pure deflection. This topic is about the hostages

 

I guess how they came to be hostages is irrelevant?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I guess how they came to be hostages is irrelevant?

We know how they came to be hostages. Hamas terrorists. 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Why did Hamas become terrorists? Did Israel commit atrocities before October 7?

Having never been a terrorist I cannot say what would bring them to mass murder innocent civilians, rape, torture, mutilate them. Then take hostage over 200 more to carry on with the rapes, sexual assault, execution and torture. 

 

UN Watch has some clues though:

Report: U.N. Teachers Celebrated Hamas Massacre

As war wages on between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, UN Watch has released a new report that reveals how UNRWA teachers in the enclave, funded largely by the U.S. and EU, indoctrinate Palestinian children and promote terrorism and antisemitism.

Entitled “UNRWA: Hate Starts Here,” the report uncovers 20 UNRWA teachers and other staff members who celebrated the October 7th Hamas massacre of Israeli civilians on their social media accounts. 

The new cases are in addition to 133 UNRWA educators and staff who were exposed for promoting hate and violence in UN Watch’s last report, released in March 2023.

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-obstacle-to-peace/

 

For your other question that you just edited in:

 

This has nothing to do with anything that went on before:

 

Guterres made a press statement in New York recalling that in his remarks on Tuesday he had specifically said no Palestinian grievance could justify the horrendous attacks by Hamas.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/israel-says-it-will-ban-un-staff-after-secretary-generals-comments

 

While I know you'd like to continue off topic, it wont be with me, this is an important thread on the hostages.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Lets hope so, Hamas refused a deal and cease fire a week ago:

 

Qatar said to tell Israel that Hamas ‘agrees in principle’ to resume talks on hostage deal

Qatari mediators have told Israel that Hamas “agrees in principle” to resume negotiations for the release of further hostages taken by the terror group during the October 7 atrocities, in exchange for a weeks-long truce in the Gaza Strip, the Walla news site reports.

Citing three Israeli officials, the report says Israel is responding warily to the message and stressing that it will quickly emerge whether Hamas is indeed serious.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/qatar-said-to-tell-israel-that-hamas-agrees-in-principle-to-resume-talks-on-hostage-deal/

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Israel will not agree to any deal that includes a permanent resolution.

This is about the hostages  It was Hamas that refused the last deal after Israel was asking for it.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you.

My pleasure 

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

No I am not confused.

Indeed not. You are a liar.

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Unlike many posters I try to do some research and look at both sides.

See above.

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What Hamas did, NOT the Palestinians, did was very bad.

Hamas ARE Palestinians, and most Palestinians that are not Hamas, support Hamas and what they did and are continuing to do.

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What the IDF is doing is far worse. They are committing genocide. If you don't believe me then start reading/watching the international news channels.

I do not believe you. All it takes is a dictionary to know that. Claiming the IDF is committing genocide is just a bold-faced lie. A popular lie that a lot of know-nothings like to regurgitate, but a lie all the same. Even Hamas is not committing genocide. They'd like to, and they're trying to. but they can't do it alone. With your help, maybe they can. How great would that be?

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I am not bothered what posters say or think on an insignificant English language website in Thailand, but more at what innocent people are suffering in Gaza.

Then why not go help them? Or at least send Hamas money to get rid of the Jews you think are to blame.

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Look at how many people world wide feel something similar to the way that I feel, and there are hundreds of thousands of them in many countries across the world, governments included.

Yes, all that feel-good virtue-signaling about how it's all the fault of those greedy Jews. Hitler would be proud. Hey, maybe you guys can help finish what he started. 

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

They are condemning Israel every day.

Yes, which does nothing but help weak minded, intellectually lazy keyboard warriors feel better about themselves. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Of course. Israel is not interested in a permanent solution that involves Palestinian statehood and the return of the illegal settlements.

Again, hostages, this is not about the permeant solution, nobody knows what that will be yet, nobody has a plan for that yet, you just can't stay on topic.

 

Hamas has rejected an Israeli proposal for a week-long truce in the Gaza Strip in return for the release of some 40 hostages

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-reject-israeli-offer-for-7-day-truce-in-gaza-release-of-40-hostages/

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Of course. Israel is not interested in a permanent solution that involves Palestinian statehood and the return of the illegal settlements.

The only permanent solution Hamas/Palestine is interested in is the eradication of Israel.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The only permanent solution Hamas/Palestine is interested in is the eradication of Israel.

 

The Israeli government believes Gaza is Israeli land.

[Morch]

38 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Israel will not agree to any deal that includes a permanent resolution. In fact, Israel has refused to negotiate.

 

@ozimoron

 

I don't know that anyone other than you (not even Hamas) expects Israel to actually start negotiations for a permanent solution under current conditions. It's just a bogus construct that you inject to the conversation.

 

This topic is about the hostages, and the relevant negotiations are regarding that. You adopting Hamas's position notwithstanding.

 

Also, Hamas's concept of 'permanent solution' involves dismantling the state of Israel, preferably with more of what was witnessed on 7/10. What, exactly, do you think that can be discussed?

 

Essentially, what you're about is appeasement.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Morch

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The Israeli government believes Gaza is Israeli land.

 

@ozimoron

 

It does not. There is no such government policy such as you claim.

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@ozimoron

 

It does not. There is no such government policy such as you claim.

 

Is Galen not an Israeli government minister?

[Yellowtail]

42 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The Israeli government believes Gaza is Israeli land.

The Palestinian government believe Israel is Palestinian land, and that every Jew in the should be killed, except for the young women, who should be hobbled so they can't run away, gang raped for a few days or at least until they are dead. 

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Is Galen not an Israeli government minister?

Which one?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The Palestinian government believe Israel is Palestinian land, and that every Jew in the should be killed, except for the young women, who should be hobbled so they can't run away, gang raped for a few days or at least until they are dead. 

 

Agreed, but it doesn't detracrt from the fact that the Israeli government believes Gaza is Israeli territory.

[jak2002003]

Both sides are savages...well.those in power there are at least. 

 

Let them fight it out is the only answer. They will never be mature or kind enough compromise. Religion and nationalism is all it is. Selfish idiots is what they are. 

[scottiejohn]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

I am not bothered what posters say or think on an insignificant English language website in Thailand,

Then why complain when people respond to your confusing (to them) posts?

[CharlieH]

Reported video removed.

 

All video content must be from a credible media source, and in English. Foreign languages, even with subtitles, are not permitted.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Is Galen not an Israeli government minister?

 

I'm not familiar with any Israeli minister by that name. You're either misspelling it, or who-knows-what. Regardless, if your wide-brush comment was based on something this minister or the other said - that's not government policy, but ministers running their mouth. That's pretty routine for Israeli governments, especially when ministers are engaged in political rivalries and one-upmanship. Already addressed several times on these topics (never mind past ones).

 

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The Palestinian government believe Israel is Palestinian land, and that every Jew in the should be killed, except for the young women, who should be hobbled so they can't run away, gang raped for a few days or at least until they are dead. 

 

You intentionally chose 'the Palestinian government' in order to muddy the water and to fit the comeback. The Palestinians are/were led by two separate leadership, with two different official agendas. What you refer to is the Hamas's version. The PA government does not hold such a policy.

 

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Agreed, but it doesn't detracrt from the fact that the Israeli government believes Gaza is Israeli territory.

 

See above. You can 'agree' all you like but it doesn't make your statement any more correct either.

 

 

Neither of you seems to have much use for facts.

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

Thank you.

 

No I am not confused.

 

Unlike many posters I try to do some research and look at both sides.

 

What Hamas did, NOT the Palestinians, did was very bad.

 

What the IDF is doing is far worse. They are committing genocide. If you don't believe me then start reading/watching the international news channels.

 

I am not bothered what posters say or think on an insignificant English language website in Thailand, but more at what innocent people are suffering in Gaza.

 

Look at how many people world wide feel something similar to the way that I feel, and there are hundreds of thousands of them in many countries across the world, governments included.

 

They are condemning Israel every day.

I think genocide is too strong a term. Mass murder or mass manslaughter is a better characterization.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I think genocide is too strong a term. Mass murder or mass manslaughter is a better characterization.

 

I think you're both tossing terms about to fit your agenda.

[placeholder]

Just now, Morch said:

I think you're both tossing terms about to fit your agenda.

 

And your defense of Israeli tactics isn't about fitting your agenda?

And apparently, in furtherance of your agenda, you lump together different critiques of the Israeli bombing campaign.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And your defense of Israeli tactics isn't about fitting your agenda?

And apparently, in furtherance of your agenda, you lump together different critiques of the Israeli bombing campaign.

 

Defense how? I do not offer wholesale justification, or glorification of - as some do.

I'm acknowledging that it's war, and war ain't pretty. No matter how you cut it.

 

In this instance, the lumping was the point.

Both of you strive for negative labels, which I doubt have little to do with facts or legalities involved.

 

As said of another poster's comments - you're jumping the gun.

[Nick Carter icp]

40 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think genocide is too strong a term. Mass murder or mass manslaughter is a better characterization.

 

   "Having the upper edge in a war" , would be more realistic 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   "Having the upper edge in a war" , would be more realistic 

Why? If anything, the bigger the edge, the more incumbent it is upon a warring party to avoid killing civilians.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Why? If anything, the bigger the edge, the more incumbent it is upon a warring party to avoid killing civilians.

 

 

   Human shields blah blah blah , you know the rest 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I think genocide is too strong a term. Mass murder or mass manslaughter is a better characterization.

Are you sure you're on the right topic?

[Bkk Brian]

Another one that gets it:

 

“The loudest calls now should be for Hamas to release all hostages immediately. Until Hamas hands back every hostage and stops firing rockets and bullets at Israel, it cannot rationally portray Israel as the aggressor”.

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Why? If anything, the bigger the edge, the more incumbent it is upon a warring party to avoid killing civilians.

 

More incumbent how?