i think it all boils down to this,

one persons myth is another persons religion.

I believe in miracles....

Who's gonna jam with me here?

Kom by ya my lord.....

In Thailand that would be " cum buy yabba".

Although through various generations the 'word' wasn't made available to the common people (the dark ages), there were always common people who had the word available.

Intentional leak of information, and like all intentional leaks, only the information deemed necessary. What about all the missing gospels that have only recently come to light, have they always been available to the common people? ...... I think not.

Well Taddy, this is an interesting one. Not the leaks - that makes no sense! However, the so called gospels. I could write a gospel tomorow, call it the gospel of Bob and somebody out there would be willing to use it saying, what about the Gospel of Bob?

I have read excerpts from various other Gospel and they did not read like scripture, full of unnecessary stories that added nothing to the original. It's like the book of Mormon, if you have a knowledge of scripture ir just doesn't read right. It's like someone sat down and tried to write something. I have not read every gnostic writing, but those I have read failed miserably.

Failed how? During the time that followed Jesus there was no Bible at all, no organised religion for hundreds of years. HUNDREDS. There were many groups of Christians and writings from many of Jesus' followers. But many of these were outlawed by Emperor Constantine 300 years after Jesus died, becaus

e the old and new testaments fitted in better with his system of beliefs. This is what actually happened.

So why would a rational man today in the 21st Century still be so willing to leave those writings out in the dark today? Surely we have moved on since then? Surely knowledge is not a betrayal to your belief system?

The books were outcast because they portrayed Jesus as a mere mortal and taught that you can commune with God directly because "he" is inside each of us. Because the "word" of God (where "word" was translated from the Greek 'Logos' from which logic is also derived), is really rational thought brought about by contemplation and conscience. This took power away from the Church and Rome, no good having a bunch of Christians out there roaming the streets doing dangerous things like thinking and challenging authority now is there?

Dismissing the Gnostic writings should not be done quite so quickly you may as well dismiss the New Testament as they were (before they were bastardised by the Church over the millennia) pretty much the same thing.

Failed meaning they didn't (don't) hold up to what was already written in the OT, which is, incidentally the bible! We didn't have the 'canon' of the NT until the 3rd century AD. And what we have got is consistant with the OT. All of the bible must be read, not just the NT.

Also I am not dismissing the gnostic writings quickly! I have read everything I could get my hands on, just like I read the Apocrypha, interesting though it may be, it does'nt ring true with the rest of scripture.

Give me some credit, I have been a bible student for many years and have studied the history in great detail. I know how we got our bible and all about other writings. I am also a Greek and Hebrew scholar so I have an understanding of the Greek word 'logos' and it's equivalent in Hebrew 'dabar'. Jesus was the 'logos' made flesh!

"And the Word (logos) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1.14

If you choose to believe the other writings as scripture that's your choice!

Fair enough Suegha I do respect your knowledge and your personal beliefs. I prefer to think of them as historical accounts of a remarkable man who led the early Christian movement and as such each of them are equally important.

I was going to expand on this and whether I believed in it as scripture a little more, but I think that would be covering old ground (no one religion works for me but think that there is still a room for a creator in a universe governed by physical laws) but its been an good read and I'll leave it at that.

Thank you quicksilva, I too have enjoyed this thread.

I thought we had a thread about Scientology somewhere, but couldn't find it so decided to post this here (it is about Religion, sort of).

Germany drops attempt to ban Scientology

"POTSDAM, Germany - Germany dropped its pursuit of a ban on Scientology after

finding insufficient evidence of illegal activity, security officials said Friday.

Domestic intelligence services would continue to monitor the group, officials said."

MSNBC - 22 Nov 08

(funny. the same article was shown on the Faux website in two different places, but both links are "broken")

Note they are continuing the surveillance though, and if they detect any activity that appears

to be in violation of the Constitution, will no doubt try and ban them again.

From the article:

"A report on extremism last charged that Scientology "seeks to limit or rescind basic and human rights, such as the right to develop one's personality and the right to be treated equally."

"This organization pursues goals — through its writings, its concept and its disrespect for minorities — that we cannot tolerate and that we consider in violation of the constitution. But they put very little of this into practice," Erhart Koerting, Berlin's top security official, told reporters. "The appraisal of the government at the moment is that (Scientology) is a lousy organization, but it is not an organization that we have to take a hammer to."

Funny too, Scientology's reaction:

"Scientology further called on officials to end the observation, and what it called "the discrimination and the harassment that go along with it."

Sounds to me like "Stop observing, harassing and discriminating against us while we observe, discriminate and harass others".