Is the new tax on money transferred into Thailand being implemented?

[sungod]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If you don't care about tax, why are you even in this discussion!

Because you went off topic and started talking about shoving cash in a mattress, duh.........

[freeworld]

Look at who could possibly be overseeing a tax dispute cases in the courts.

 

03. THE JUDICIARY
Judges in Thailand can train to be judges soon after
successfully completing their law degrees, passing the
Thai Bar exam, and the judges’ entrance exam. Therefore
judges tend to be younger than in other countries. The
following prerequisites are required to qualify as a judge:
■ minimum age of 25 years;
■ must have worked for a minimum of 2 years in a
government office; or
■ must have worked as a lawyer for a minimum of
2 years and have experience of a minimum of 20 cases

[retarius]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I'm only guessing here, but I doubt retirees will be affected much.  The guys  who are going to get hit are the offshore workers.  (as in, work in 3rd country, not their home country and not where they reside)  The ones that aren't paying tax on a huge portion of their income and used to get by claiming this is last year's money so they didn't pay tax when it arrived in Thailand. 

 

That provision never made sense to me, though I thought I understood who it was intended to shield.  And it wasn't foreigners.

 

But, that's just a guess.  As I ponder my decision where to retire to, Mexico is looking better.  Mostly because it's closer to home and Medicare.  Pre-existing conditions prevent me from getting reliable, affordable insurance.

 

I think you are right. In any event I have paid taxes on all of my income and savings. My annual IRS filing will show income is all taxed. My only concern is savings. If I might have to document that and that might be an issues with some of my non-retirement savings. 

[Neeranam]

26 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Look at who could possibly be overseeing a tax dispute cases in the courts.

 

03. THE JUDICIARY
Judges in Thailand can train to be judges soon after
successfully completing their law degrees, passing the
Thai Bar exam, and the judges’ entrance exam. Therefore
judges tend to be younger than in other countries. The
following prerequisites are required to qualify as a judge:
■ minimum age of 25 years;
■ must have worked for a minimum of 2 years in a
government office; or
■ must have worked as a lawyer for a minimum of
2 years and have experience of a minimum of 20 cases

Rarely goes to court.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, retarius said:

I think you are right. In any event I have paid taxes on all of my income and savings. My annual IRS filing will show income is all taxed. My only concern is savings. If I might have to document that and that might be an issues with some of my non-retirement savings. 

Savings are non-taxable.

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

More online workers will be affected nowadays, like me. I work for a German company. 

Starting another job with a British company, affiliated with the UK government. Could I pay tax on that in the UK, despite not being a resident there? 

Just asking, aren't a proud new Thai citizen? 

[Old Croc]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

It's easier to post a new question of your own and have everyone tell you the answer than it is to read the existing discussion. I blame parenting, the school system and Trump..

I blame the fact that the original thread has, Quote- (200 pages of nonsense- M. Lister)- Unquote.

 

Or the fact that 4 or 5 members have posted there more than 250 times each mainly arguing semantics trying to prove who's the cleverest tax expert.

 

Or perhaps, now we're in 2024 and these rules apply, the OP wanted to know if anyone had transferred money this year and did the banks get involved in taxation issues. I considered it to be a fair question.

A question that could easily get lost in 200 pages of nonsense.

[fondue zoo]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

It's easier to post a new question of your own and have everyone tell you the answer than it is to read the existing discussion. I blame parenting, the school system and Trump..

 

This is true.

The internet, in all its form and splendour, functions solely on one principle: the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer.

 

[fondue zoo]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

Because you went off topic and started talking about shoving cash in a mattress, duh.........

 

I admit I chuckled at that hah

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Savings are non-taxable.

 

If that's true, what will be the mechanism for proving that $50,000 is savings and not money you made selling navel lint on EBay?  Or on OnlyFans?  Or any other online endeavor...

 

[novacova]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

You do understand what the term "downstream" means, don't you.

 

And since the US requires tax clearance certificates of Green Card holders, aka, non US folks living in the Us, is it really that far fetched!

Yes dear friend, it’s far fetched.

[novacova]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

 

Here, do something useful and add some value for a change:

 

 

 

Draft Copy 4, with links, most data and comments/suggestions incorporated.

 

I'll leave it now for the rest of the day and will pick up any comments/questions later. This needs to be useable and understandable for the average person, if you think it needs changes, say so.

 

 

1. This guide has been compiled in an attempt to provide readers with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been extensively exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to prevent tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax and must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where.

 

7. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 180 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

8. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

9. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:.

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

10. There are also classes or types of income that the RD does not regard as assessable and these are also linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

11. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

12. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variables involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

13. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

14. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

15. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

 

16. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may bee to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

17. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

18. YOU are responsible for determining if you have the minimum assessable income in Thailand each year which means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

19. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

20. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

21. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

22. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

23. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

24. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is online but is only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. CAUTION, the forms are updated every year and the 2023/24 forms for full year PIT are NOT yet available:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

25. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below.

26. SAMPLE FORM

 

27. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for avoiding Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions, along with tax clearance certificates required to leave the country. This is possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

28. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

Right, that’s how I read too, though in the Thai law and with conceptual comprehension and without taking out a sentence or paragraph and running with it. Read the Thai law, not other interpretations of it.

Edited January 7 by novacova

[Neeranam]

22 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If that's true, what will be the mechanism for proving that $50,000 is savings and not money you made selling navel lint on EBay?  Or on OnlyFans?  Or any other online endeavor...

 

Just tell them.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Just asking, aren't a proud new Thai citizen? 

I am a fairly new Thai citizen -  the removal of the loophole in the law is aimed at Thai citizens with foreign income.

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, novacova said:

The purpose of the new rule is to prevent tax avoidance.

I would change that to 'tax evasion'

[Ben Zioner]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am a fairly new Thai citizen -  the removal of the loophole in the law is aimed at Thai citizens with foreign income.

Who should therefore be proud to contribute to their country. But a lot could be said about that, I agree. Not on this thread anyhow, but it could be a good topic for another one.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Who should therefore be proud to contribute to their country. But a lot could be said about that, I agree. Not on this thread anyhow, but it could be a good topic for another one.

Do you pay tax to Israel ? A hellava larger topic!

[Ben Zioner]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you pay tax to Israel ? A hellava larger topic!

Yes I paid my taxes when I was tax resident, and also gave some years of my life. And feel good about as I know I keep the right to settle there, in the country of achievers..

Edited January 7 by Ben Zioner

[Mike Lister]

39 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I would change that to 'tax evasion'

I did you should read the latest version

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Savings are non-taxable.

Not true

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

I did you should read the latest version

OK, nice of you to do this to help people, or scare people  :)

Are you an accountant?

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

Not true

Well don't tell the RD!

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, aublumberg said:

17 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Foreign currency can be carried in without limit, and without it being taxed, but anything over $20k has to be declared.

Foreign currency brought into Thailand exceeding USD15,000 or equivalent has to be declared. 

Exchange Control Regulation (bot.or.th)

ศูนย์บริการศุลกากร - Customs Care Center

"ศูนย์บริการศุลกากร - Customs Care Center".

Your link's only seven years out of date...
"Last updated date: 31 March 2017 12:05:30" .

 

"Foreign Currency 

       Individuals or tourists may bring foreign currency in the form of banknotes or coins out of or into the Kingdom without limits.  But if the total value exceeds USD 20,000 or its equivalent, a declaration must be made to the customs officer at the time of passing through Customs".

https://www.thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/009-010

Edited January 7 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

17 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What?

Where?

Why "where" but what?

[Mike Lister]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Well don't tell the RD!

Depends on the year the savings were earned

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

My guess is that somebody will challenge my statement so I'll save you some time and effort!

 

• Each customer is allowed to deposit foreign banknotes to their FCD account at not more than USD15,000 or equivalent in other currencies per day or not more than the amount specified in documents showing that the funds are sourced from abroad, such as a currency declaration form with stamp and signature of a Customs official or evidence from businesses relating to foreign means of payment.

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/personal/account/pages/foreign-currency.aspx

Who said anything about depositing currency notes to FCD accounts?

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

Who said anything about depositing currency notes to FCD accounts?

Me

[Liverpool Lou]

15 hours ago, JackGats said:

18 hours ago, proton said:

 

Can bring in up to $20k dollars in cash I believe, they can't tax that

"Bringing into or taking out of Thailand baht banknotes in an amount exceeding THB 450,000 or foreign currency banknotes in an amount exceeding USD 15,000 or its equivalent requires a Customs declaration when entering or leaving the country."

That's for Thai baht banknotes not foreign currencies.

[Mike Lister]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

OK, nice of you to do this to help people, or scare people  :)

Are you an accountant?

Facts are facts,other posters recommended ot earlier 

Edited January 7 by Mike Lister

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, jts-khorat said:

And nobody in my family has ever heard of a customs declaration, so I am not sure where you get that from.

He's right but he's referring to depositng foreign currency into Non-resident Foreign Currency Deposit accounts, not exchanging the currency for THB.

Edited January 7 by Liverpool Lou