New tax era in Thailand begins as Revenue now shares data with 138 countries within the OECD

[TheAppletons]

8 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

under the changes it doesn't matter when it was earned, it's now based on when you bring the funds into Thailand. Using your example, if you were to bring the 50k into Thailand after Jan 1 2024, it is income for the 2024 taxation year regardless of whether that interest was earned last year or 10 years ago.

 

  This is factually incorrect.  If he's bringing personal savings accumulated prior to 2024, it is not subject to taxation in Thailand.

 

  

 

Edited January 8 by TheAppletons

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

under the changes it doesn't matter when it was earned, it's now based on when you bring the funds into Thailand. Using your example, if you were to bring the 50k into Thailand after Jan 1 2024, it is income for the 2024 taxation year regardless of whether that interest was earned last year or 10 years ago.

Not true, it is date sensitive and 1 January 2024 is the key date, as the poster above has correctly said. This point was clarified by the RD in a note in November 2023.

[lordgrinz]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Not true, it is date sensitive and 1 January 2024 is the key date, as the poster above has correctly said. This point was clarified by the RD in a note in November 2023.

 

If that is true, then there is almost no way to quantify or keep track of "first in last out", so the logical assumption would be they would have to handle savings accounts as "last in first out". The only other option would be to abandon the remitted money only approach and go with a tax on all worldwide income, regardless if it is remitted or not.

Edited January 8 by lordgrinz

[TigerandDog]

11 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Not true, it is date sensitive and 1 January 2024 is the key date, as the poster above has correctly said. This point was clarified by the RD in a note in November 2023.

that's not my understanding. The advice I've received is that such earnings would have needed to be transferred into Thailand by 31 Dec 2023. Even if that advice is incorrect, how is a person going to be able to prove to the RD that the funds transferred in after 1 Jan 2024, viz savings etc were actually earned prior to 1 Jan 2024. It won't be easy to do that, and even if it can be done will the RD accept it. Even your screed in an earlier comment on the tax laws makes that point, and it was also a point that was stressed in a video interview with a leading Tax accountant in BKK.

Edited January 8 by TigerandDog

[Purdey]

It might work, if retirees here went back to their countries of origin or on yo Vietnam or wherever, the Thai government might rethink whether they prefer to have retirees here to spend instead to taxing them away.

[quake]

8 minutes ago, Purdey said:

It might work, if retirees here went back to their countries of origin or on yo Vietnam or wherever, the Thai government might rethink whether they prefer to have retirees here to spend instead to taxing them away.

 

To be honest mate.

They don't want us here anymore.

This tax issue is just one more slap at us.

There will be more in the future.

Reckon , next will be compulsory heath insurance for all new retirees,

in a few years time. 

 

 

 

Edited January 8 by quake

[Freddy42OZ]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Anything pre-1 January 2024 is not taxable, after that date it is. The onus is on the taxpayer to prove his or her case by keeping adequate records etc.

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

8 January, 2024

Version 5, Rev A

 

 

 

 

Thanks Mike, that is very useful. 

In terms of tax reductions/deductions there are various legal ways to reduce your tax burden.
 

Go Shopping to Get Tax Deductions for the 2024 Tax Year via the "Easy E-Receipt 2024" Program
 

You can get a special tax deduction for the next tax year, 2024, if you make certain purchases from Jan. 1 - Feb. 15th, 2024.

However, you must get e-tax receipts/invoices on the same day of purchase from places that can issue a paper copy (and/or a copy emailed to you that you can print out later). 

The maximum you can claim in the 2024 tax year is 50,000 baht.
 

For details on the Easy E-Receipt 2024 program for the 2024 tax year, this article has the best explanation that Google translated from Thai into English. It mentions the program for this year as well as the program from last year.   https://mgronline.com/onlinesection/detail/9660000114219

 

Here are a variety of other articles in Thai to check if you want more confirmation: https://www.sanook.com/money/917999/     https://www.leceipt.com/blog/easy-e-receipt-2567     https://etax.one.th/blog/ช้อปดีมีคืน   . Do a Google search for "Easy E-Receipt 2024" to find out more info. 

 

Important Things to Keep in Mind to Get Tax Deductions for the 2024 Tax Year

 

Please note there are two types of tax receipts and we can only claim e-tax receipts for 2024.

(1) Some places will be registered with the Revenue Department to issue only printed tax receipts. 

(2) Some places will be registered to give both printed and what is called an e-tax receipt / electronic tax receipt, meaning the tax receipt is registered directly with the Revenue Department and can either be sent to you by email and/or print out to be given to you directly. 

 

For the Easy E-Receipt 2024 program, you need to request an e-tax receipt/invoice (not a normal tax receipt) before you purchase something. 

• Here is a database of stores in Thai that can provide e-tax receipts.   https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-questionnaire-web/etax-invoice
• Be sure to confirm that an e-tax receipt will be given to you before you purchase anything. This includes online purchases, but you'll need to make a specific request to the seller to have an e-tax receipt sent to you with all the required information that you provide to the online seller. You can often request that they send a printed copy with your purchase. Be warned that they sometimes promise and do not deliver. 
• For the store to fill out your e-tax receipt after you get your store receipt from the cashier, you have to go to the customer service counter to provide such things as your full name, address, phone number, email, and your personal tax ID number which will all need to be put on the e-tax receipt/invoice for it to be valid. (I suggest you carry all this info both in English and Thai so you can hand the paper to the customer service staff. This process usually takes about 5-10 minutes for them to prepare the e-tax invoice/receipt that can be emailed to you and/or printed by them, but please note some stores will expect you to print the file that they email you. Many of the larger stores like Gourmet Mart and Lotus will have your information on file after you initially give it to them, so you will just need to provide your email in future purchases.)
• You can pretty much get an e-tax receipt for almost anything except alcohol, cigarettes, cars, motorcycles, boats, gasoline, memberships outside of the purchase dates, etc. 
• VAT-registered restaurants that are registered directly with the government can provide e-tax receipts if you provide all the necessary information. However, you might want to talk to a manager first because my wife and I found a number of times last year that we were just given a regular tax receipt after the server had said they did have e-tax receipts.
• When going to pay tax for 2024, staple all your printed e-tax invoice/receipts together and then submit them when you pay your 2024 tax. (There is a part of the tax form you will need to fill in regarding this.) However, be careful because you may not be able to claim the total amount of, for example, one of your grocery e-tax receipts. Please note that e-tax receipts will specify (usually at the bottom in Thai) what amount you are allowed to claim as a deduction because certain products cannot be claimed as deductions due to the fact that they are either prohibited (alcohol, cigarettes, etc.) or don't naturally have VAT (chicken, pork, certain veggies, etc.).

After doing all this, how much can you actually deduct? If you are in the 15% or 20% tax brackets and if you are able to document the spending of say 30,000 baht in e-tax receipts, you would be able to deduct 4500 baht and 6000 baht respectively off of your tax payment. If you are in the 20% tax bracket and you claim 50,000 baht worth of applicable e-tax receipts, that is a 10,000 baht deduction. 

 

[freeworld]

5 minutes ago, quake said:

 

To be honest mate.

They don't want us here anymore.

This tax issue is just one more slap at us.

There will be more in the future.

Reckon , next will be compulsory heath insurance for all new retirees,

in a few years time. 

 

 

 

Nah, they just amended the tax code maybe to comply with OECD pressure and international norms.

 

Thailand is not a tax haven.

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, topt said:

 

As has been mentioned many times State and personal pensions are excluded from the UK/Thai DTA so potentially taxable.....

Yes and not all pensions are state or personal and as I said not many things are exempt but you need to research tge DTA to determine its impact of each person. There is no cookie cutter answer for everyone 

[freeworld]

20 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

how is a person going to be able to prove to the RD that the funds transferred in after 1 Jan 2024, viz savings etc were actually earned prior to 1 Jan 2024

Erm, bank statements, investment statements, salary slips, tax residence certificates etc...

 

Paperwork trail for all financial dealings is active since the 90's

Edited January 8 by freeworld

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

The UK state pension falls below the level requiring tax, ie less than the personal tax free allowance for the UK. So tax free. It does however qualify for Thai taxation by amount. I hope you are correct of course.

I'm not realky trying to be correct as everyone's situation is different so correct is adjustable. My advice has been the same all along. Read your country's DTA to see where you fall in this and then compare it when the final regs are issued here. No one knows for sure and it's different by person and country so no need to panic over what you dont know will happen yet?

[Bday Prang]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

If i only was sure that new tax regime will benefit the real poor and disadvantageous people of Thailand i wouldn't

bother me that much, but this is the thing, It's NOT GOING TO, and the poor will stay poor and the extra revenue will

either disappear somewhere or will be used to buy a couple of submarines of a whole wing of fighter jets from China...

Correct, their assertion that it will bolster the economy, is laughable , and that it will somehow combat inequality is actually quite nauseating 

[JGon]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Right.

 

So the only question I have out of this whole debacle is:-

 

If it is not assessable income, do I need to go and get a TIN and file a tax return on my non assessable income ?

 

I'm in this not assessable income boat (based on my country's DTA/ Government's pension). Logic tells me that I still need to get a TIN and file next year and let them "certify" my non assessable income. Otherwise (I think) eventually there could be issues at immigration when you try to renew your Visa. But this is Thailand after all so nothing surprises me.

[Bday Prang]

26 minutes ago, quake said:

Reckon , next will be compulsory heath insurance for all new retirees,

more likely to be all retirees, do you really think anybody will be "grandfathered" out of it?

And it will probably be only be  Thai insurance that will be accepted, any "proper" insurance will be an optional extra

Edited January 8 by Bday Prang

[lordgrinz]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Correct, their assertion that it will bolster the economy, is laughable , and that it will somehow combat inequality is actually quite nauseating 

 

What it will do, is make a good portion of expats leave to live elsewhere. Hopefully they make enough off taxes on Thai HI-SO's hiding money abroad, as they won't be ablet to leave so easily.

[The Cyclist]

10 minutes ago, JGon said:

I'm in this not assessable income boat (based on my country's DTA/ Government's pension). Logic tells me that I still need to get a TIN and file next year and let them "certify" my non assessable income.

 

Logic would tell me the same, but Ihave been told on numerous occassions, by people from different Countries, that if you do not have assessable income there is no need to file a Thai tax return.

 

Logic would also tell me that the above is also true. Why would you file a Thai tax return if you have no assessable income

 

10 minutes ago, JGon said:

Otherwise (I think) eventually there could be issues at immigration when you try to renew your Visa. But this is Thailand after all so nothing surprises me.

 

If it becomes an immigration issue, It would only potentially affect people who use the income / combo method. It wont affect people that slapped 400k / 800k in a bank account years ago.

Edited January 8 by The Cyclist

[Mike Lister]

45 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

that's not my understanding. The advice I've received is that such earnings would have needed to be transferred into Thailand by 31 Dec 2023. Even if that advice is incorrect, how is a person going to be able to prove to the RD that the funds transferred in after 1 Jan 2024, viz savings etc were actually earned prior to 1 Jan 2024. It won't be easy to do that, and even if it can be done will the RD accept it. Even your screed in an earlier comment on the tax laws makes that point, and it was also a point that was stressed in a video interview with a leading Tax accountant in BKK.

Look at the sherrings web site, the rile was amended on 23 November to say that income derived before 1 Jan is excluded.

 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

By comparison, the UK informal economy is as follows:

 

"The size of United Kingdom's informal economy is estimated to be 10.3% which represents approximately $326 billion at GDP PPP levels. United Kingdom's data is highlighted in the table below, use the filter and sort order options to allow easy comparison with other countries".

 

https://www.worldeconomics.com/Informal-Economy/United Kingdom.aspx#:~:text=The size of United Kingdom's,easy comparison with other countries.

 

Interestingly that is not that much larger in USD terms than Thailand where the USD value is around $260 bill.

One of the spokespersons for the oecd (Janet Yellen) said that this signing by 130+ countries (minus Ireland, Hungary, and Estonia plus some others not of the G20 or EU but did include Russia, China and India, meant that countries around the globe could get a fair shake in taxes of the huge multinationals.  Included though are the groups of smaller folks that pay no imcome tax anywhere and this new documentation would include earned income tax needed to be paid by all individuals unless special circumstances occur - DTA's or other reasons.  There are numerous threads available if one just looks for them.  If one has been paying required taxes on earned income whether being a tax resident or citizen of a country requiring taxes on any earned income, then there is no reason to panic.  It does appear that most will not be coming after "erarned" government pensions, that is my opinion.

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Seems you have to assume yourself as Chinese if you want to save on taxes!

The Chinese signed the same OECD document as did Russia and India.

 

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Yep. Imagine all those international students at universities being forced to file a tax return.

I don't believe that students will be having much of an earned income.

[Dan O]

Before anyone panics they need to read up on what The OECD organization is and does. It's not as implied in the article and really holds no control over any countries. It models best practices between countries tax wise and makes recommendation on methods of improvement but they are non binding legally. One the the main positions they hold, unless it's change in the last 2 years is the income earned should only be taxable in the origination country of the income not necessarily the country of residence and mainly aimed at multinational corporations.  

[Celsius]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I don't believe that students will be having much of an earned income.

 

Does it matter? They better file if they want their student visas renewed

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

5 hours ago, Dan O said:

Read your country's Dual Tax Agreement and you will see many things including most pensions are exempt from dual taxation 

The UK state pension falls below the level requiring tax, ie less than the personal tax free allowance for the UK. So tax free. It does however qualify for Thai taxation by amount. I hope you are correct of course.

 

Since the UK state pension varies widely from person to person, there's no way you can claim they will qualify for Thai tax. Most pensioners are way underfunded and won't get anywhere near their full benefits. I would wager that most pensioners pitching their tent here will barely make the lowest tax tier. The balloon chase will endure.

[NZAMBOY]

Altho many of us will not have to pay additional tax, we will still have to file, which will mostly be done by accountancy firms...a real windfall for them!!!...the way i see it, the banks will hold back 15% of our offshore deposit and we'll have to file in order to have it returned...

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Right.

 

So the only question I have out of this whole debacle is:-

 

If it is not assessable income, do I need to go and get a TIN and file a tax return on my non assessable income ?

From what I see it will be like US tax returns, they are due normally 15 April of the year following the tax year, or sometimes extended if one is living overseas or has a specific excuse for filing late.  The individual is responsible for correct numbers and tax paid plus we in the US that have a foreign bank account also have another form that we are required to file each year with the Justice department.  So, here I believe that the govt may put the onus on the individual and have the immigration folks collect the paperwork and send it to the Revenue dept.  My opinion only.

[Bday Prang]

 

 

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Are you having a laugh?

I have not read anything that long since I did my Uni studies!

If presented with that I would be tempted to just say 'how much do you want!

           That is the nature of all the rules, regulations, and procedures  regarding tax and indeed all legal matters,  The purpose of which is to provide a steady stream of income for their brothers who work as accountants and solicitors, it is also quite effective at provoking, out of frustration, the reaction that you referred to, ie "OMG just tell me how much", which is exactly what they want   .Although bearing in mind the relatively small amounts of tax that retirees will probably be liable for, just paying up will probably work out cheaper than engaging the services of  Thai accountants who have no doubt already prepared their dual pricing policies in preparation.

            Anybody engaging the services of a foreign accountant working here will meet a similar fate. .Likewise putting any faith in a couple of pages of assumptions and advice prepared by unqualified lay people acting as  international tax experts will also inevitably lead to at least  disappointment and probably worse

             We can expect a lot more scaremongering headlines regarding this over the coming months 

Meanwhile I doubt any of the "internet giants" referred to, or the likes of Starbucks are concerned at all,  

         

 

[NanLaew]

6 minutes ago, NZAMBOY said:

Altho many of us will not have to pay additional tax, we will still have to file, which will mostly be done by accountancy firms...a real windfall for them!!!...the way i see it, the banks will hold back 15% of our offshore deposit and we'll have to file in order to have it returned...

 

Incredible eh? That's how many, many "more civilized" countries have been personal income tax assessment and management for decades.

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

 

What it will do, is make a good portion of expats leave to live elsewhere. Hopefully they make enough off taxes on Thai HI-SO's hiding money abroad, as they won't be ablet to leave so easily.

The real Hi-SO's  wont be paying any more than they are now, despite their alleged intended targets the super rich , and the multinationals will remain unaffected.  as usual

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

This is the part that gets a little screwy, is it just on remitted money, and if its much smaller than the senders worldwide income, how do they decide if this smaller amount remitted was taxed?

we  the resident here, I think they will eventually instruct us that we must have a Tax Number, and that to extend a stay in the country, we have to provide that tax number and money remitted into Thailand by a copy of one's bank book (s) and that local banks will need to provide names of resident aliens and then, we will need to also provide our income and any taxes paid to our home country.  For me is is easy, just need to print out an additional page or two when I do my 1-year long stay extension.  I have plenty of documentation from my US payers of my govt pension and the amount of taxes withheld by the government.  I used to have to provide these same documents to immigration along with my Embassy letter which disappeared a few years ago.

[nglodnig]

4 hours ago, KannikaP said:

From my taxman, for an over 65 year old....first 190,000 is free, plus a 60k allowance, so there's 250k. After that 0 - 150k is at 0%, 150 - 300k is at 5%, 300 - 500k is at 10%, and so on.

 

So if receiving 65k / month as per min retirement requirements thats 12 x 65 = 780k less 250k allowance = 530k taxable,, so 0-150k zero, 150-300k @ 5% = 7.5k and the remainder 230k @ 10% so a total of 30.5k tax to be paid.

 

Just doing the math apologiies if this was done before.