New tax era in Thailand begins as Revenue now shares data with 138 countries within the OECD

[BE88]

However, my tax will be 3.OO0 B. acceptable without problems.

 

Making an investment here now in Thailand will be another question that I won't ask myself for now because I won't do it.

[smedly]

15 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

As written before, anyone residing in Thailand for more than 180 days a year will have to file a Thai tax return reporting their world income,

all thanks to Obama.  Thai tax people will have knowledge of what you have and earn in most countries, every year.  Dual taxation will be addressed on the Thai tax return.  As for foreigners, who will not be granted immigrant status nor given health care, etc., you will be paying income tax and getting nothing in return. I am not sure if it is even legal to force a tourist who resides here more than 180 days a year to file a tax return.  They can keep their country.

nonsense 

[KannikaP]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

you can work that out, how are they going too

This is written down by my local taxman , and agrees with the recent post from Charlie & Mike, which clarifies it perfectly.

[tomazbodner]

14 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

I am not sure if it is even legal to force a tourist who resides here more than 180 days a year to file a tax return. 

Not sure you're considered a tourist, staying over half a year in country. But then, that could be fixed by simply returning to 180 days per year maximum stay in Thailand without non-immigrant visa.

[RandiRona]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

My UK pension starts in 2025, start taxing that I'll be gone.

Seems you have to assume yourself as Chinese if you want to save on taxes!

[Celsius]

15 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

I am not sure if it is even legal to force a tourist who resides here more than 180 days a year to file a tax return. 

 

Yep. Imagine all those international students at universities being forced to file a tax return.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

Now it is clear that all foreign residents in Thailand will have to pay taxes for those who reside beyond 180 days

don't forget to check your individual DTA.  Thailand does not wish to "force" folks out but anyone earning income will need to pay tax somewhere unless a royal exemption or DTA exemption is in effect.  DTA exemptions usually are done for government (military and civilian) pensions but just check out your own country's DTA.  Other ASEAN countries too probably are thinking the same thing as are non ASEAN countries that signed onto the OECD declaration of last summer.  Tax evaders are reportedly one of the prime targets in this declaration.

[BE88]

32 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Would be interesting to know what the tax threshold is here in Thailand... at what financial level do you start to pay tax?

[I'm talking about income from overseas not income from working here in Thailand].

Please read this

 

[smedly]

6 minutes ago, BE88 said:

However, my tax will be 3.OO0 B. acceptable without problems.

 

Making an investment here now in Thailand will be another question that I won't ask myself for now because I won't do it.

there are criminals who bring millions of baht into this country in cash, they have paid zero tax on this money in their home countries and have probably be collecting benefits most of their lives

 

that is who they should be targeting - but again to complicated 

[Srikcir]

With regard to US and associated worldwide income, a US taxpayer must pay income tax as earned or received on income during the year by either withholding or making estimated tax payments (ie., monthly/quarterly). Otherwise, there is a penalty for underpayment of estimated tax. See Form 2210, Underpayment of Estimated Tax by Individuals, Estates, and Trusts.

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc306

So it might not be surprising that many of US funds transferred to Thailand by American resident expats from the US might have already been taxed beyond such common income sources as government pensions and social security. 

[BE88]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

there are criminals who bring millions of baht into this country in cash, they have paid zero tax on this money in their home countries and have probably be collecting benefits most of their lives

 

that is who they should be targeting - but again to complicated 

 

The problem you raise is how should you behave if you want to invest in Thailand if you don't have any documents proving that you are not a criminal but that your money is your savings? Therefore I find it extremely risky to import capital into Thailand from now on.

 

[quake]

24 minutes ago, smedly said:

you can work that out, how are they going too

 

good luck with that

 

if I have to do a border run every 180 days  - i will, ## them, but it won't happen, too complex to administer

 

That would have to be a very long boarder run. 

[smedly]

8 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Thailand does not wish to "force" folks out but anyone earning income will need to pay tax somewhere

I pay tax in the uk, there is no avoinding it if you have a legit income like a pension

 

how many people do you think have an "income" and don't pay tax ?

 

this is why governments are now pushing hard for a cashless system, the ultimate control

[ikke1959]

In a few days we will read that Thailand is the country for retirement.... But when people consider to come and know that they probably have to pay double tax or unnecessary tax, the retirement paradise will be over soon, and with that another blow for the tourism

[KannikaP]

55 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

The UK state pension falls below the level requiring tax, ie less than the personal tax free allowance for the UK. So tax free. It does however qualify for Thai taxation by amount. I hope you are correct of course.

Is the 12700 tax free, or taxed at 0%?

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

I bring in Bht 40k per month totalling Bht 400k per year. With various allowances and the tax threshold, I shall have to pay around Bht 4000  at the end of the year even though there is an agreement with UK.. Confirmed by my local taxman.

Sorry, 480k per year. Don't be confused.

[Mike Lister]

38 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Isn't it 60,000 baht and same for a spouse? (Presuming no deduct allowances). 

Opps, prior post better 190k+60k then?

No! Here, read this:

 

1. This guide has been compiled in an attempt to provide readers with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been extensively exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax and must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 180 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

8. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

9. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

10. There are also classes or types of income that the RD does not regard as assessable and these are also linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

11. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

12. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

13. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

14. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

15. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

 

16. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may bee to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

17. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

18. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

19. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

20. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

21. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

22. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

23. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

24. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is online but is only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. CAUTION, the forms are updated every year and the 2023/24 forms for full year PIT are NOT yet available:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

25. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

26. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

27. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

28. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Is the 12700 tax free, or taxed at 0%?

Probably 'stated' as the latter to reserve the right to future amendments!

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Is the 12700 tax free, or taxed at 0%?

The UK Personal Allowance is roughly GBP 12,570 per year.

[The Cyclist]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

On Friday, the Director-general of the Revenue Department revealed a surge in tax receipts from October and November 2023. They were driven by a recovery in foreign tourism.

 

Interesting

 

Foreign tourists sought out an RD Office, filed tax returns and threw money at the RD.

 

Who would have guessed at such stupidity.

 

Or is the auther conflating a rise in indirect taxation, VAT etc, due to a rise in tourism with a rise Income tax reciepts.

 

Any rise in income tax reciepts from 01 Jan 2024 will most not likely happen before July 2024 and more likely to happen  between Jan - March 2025.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

No! Here, read this:

Are you having a laugh?

I have not read anything that long since I did my Uni studies!

If presented with that I would be tempted to just say 'how much do you want!

[quake]

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

No! Here, read this.

 

Reading and comprehension is a hard on here for some.

How many pm's you had to date. 

[Mike Lister]

Just now, jacko45k said:

Are you having a laugh?

I have not read anything that long since I did my Uni studies!

If presented with that I would be tempted to just say 'how much do you want!

If you're too lazy to read two pages of A4, don't expect a personalized answer from me.

[Denim]

Hold the thread ! I just ordered a cubic meter of popcorn !.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, quake said:

 

Reading and comprehension is a hard on here for some.

How many pm's you had to date. 

Regarding tax? 16.

Edited January 8 by Mike Lister

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

15. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income

 

Right.

 

So the only question I have out of this whole debacle is:-

 

If it is not assessable income, do I need to go and get a TIN and file a tax return on my non assessable income ?

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

If you're too lazy to read two pages of A4, don't expect a personalized answer from me.

If you are the type to send 'War and Peace' when a few lines would suffice, sorry I disturbed you.

How much time I got left I need this!

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

20 minutes ago, smedly said:

I pay tax in the uk, there is no avoinding it if you have a legit income like a pension

 

how many people do you think have an "income" and don't pay tax ?

 

this is why governments are now pushing hard for a cashless system, the ultimate control

As posted elsewhere this morning, the informal economy or grey labor market equals about 50% of the labor force which is around 38 million people. Since only 11% of the labor force files a tax return, the answer to your question is, somewhere between 1% and 89% of 38 million.

[smedly]

15 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Are you having a laugh?

I have not read anything that long since I did my Uni studies!

If presented with that I would be tempted to just say 'how much do you want!

i suggest you read it

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

As posted elsewhere this morning, the informal economy or grey labor market equals about 50% of the labor force which is around 38 million people. Since only 11% of the labor force files a tax return, the answer to your question is, somewhere between 1% and 89% of 38 million.

 

I think @smedly was referring to expats in Thailand with legitimate sources of income from their home Countries.

 

Not local Thais.