Legal Tax minimization for foreigners

[smokie36]

Any tips and tricks welcome here.

 

Let's be honest....no one wants to pay tax...except Jeremy Corbyn!!

[Henk Langeweg]

7 minutes ago, smokie36 said:

Any tips and tricks welcome here.

 

Let's be honest....no one wants to pay tax...except Jeremy Corbyn!!

Tax at home or here in Thailand?

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, Henk Langeweg said:

Tax at home or here in Thailand?

 

Would one be a foreigner at home ?

[TheAppletons]

Awesome.  Another income tax thread.  

[Ben Zioner]

Well it is quite simple.

 

a) minimise the amount of money, earned after December 2023, you are sending to Thailand,

b) stay no more the 179 days in Thailand in a given year,

c) combine a & b,

d) get an LTR visa.

 

 

Edited January 14 by Mike Lister
Changed date per op request

[smokie36]

34 minutes ago, Henk Langeweg said:

Tax at home or here in Thailand?

 

Wherever its being paid.

[Mike Lister]

Let me just pre-empt and reiterate that Tax Avoidance is quite legal, but if it crosses the boundary and even begins to smell like Tax Evasion, that is illegal and so we wont go there, I feel certain of that. :)

 

Thanks

[UWEB]

46 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well it is quite simple.

 

a) minimise the amount of money, earned before Jan 1, 2024, you are sending to Thailand,

b) stay no more the 179 days in Thailand in a given year,

c) combine a & b,

d) get an LTR visa.

 

 

Why minimize the amount of money earned before 1. of January, should be Tax free.

[QuantumQuandry]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well it is quite simple.

 

a) minimise the amount of money, earned before Jan 1, 2024, you are sending to Thailand,

b) stay no more the 179 days in Thailand in a given year,

c) combine a & b,

d) get an LTR visa.

 

e) Wait to find out how it's actually going to work, if implemented and enforced, at all.

[retarius]

12 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Why minimize the amount of money earned before 1. of January, should be Tax free.

Like you, apparently, I had understood or misunderstood from Charlie H and Mike Lister's simple guide and the subsequent discussion that one could transfer all monies tax free provided that you could demonstrate that the overseas account balances before transfer exceeded the amount transferred. I will have to re-read the Simple Guide, as the grey matter doesn't seem to function very well these days.

[Ben Zioner]

22 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Why minimize the amount of money earned before 1. of January, should be Tax free.

Sorry, my bad, shold be "after December 2023", of course. 

 

Let's hope some helpful moderator can amend the post, which is non sensical as it is now.

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Sorry, my bad, shold be "after December 2023", of course. 

 

Let's hope some helpful moderator can amend the post, which is non sensical as it is now.

Mr Helpful, at your service.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Let me just pre-empt and reiterate that Tax Avoidance is quite legal, but if it crosses the boundary and even begins to smell like Tax Evasion, that is illegal and so we wont go there, I feel certain of that. :)

 

Thanks

 

Should we change the heading to "Tax Optimisation"??

 

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Should we change the heading to "Tax Optimisation"??

 

A good idea, I'll do that.

[KhunLA]

Keep the 400k or 800k in the bank for IMM, and bring in your living expenses via ATM.  Not sure how they would tax that, as hard to tell if you're an expat or tourist.   

Edited January 14 by KhunLA

[Dcheech]

First I do not think there will be a serious TAX. They have yet to really say anything. Yes that law firm paper that is on a couple threads is nice, but the tax office is going to have to re design their tax form if they really mean it. When that happens game on. Note - I already moved my 2014 cash over pre Jan 1. So I already have a year covered, just in case.

 

The easiest route for me is bring 15K (or 20 K?!) USD into Thailand.  You can bring 15K USD (or20) into Thailand without declaring it. I usually make a trip back to home country once a year. As I also get a small government pension, which is protected & tax free, that would cover me right there.

The real issue for me, is if and when I buy a house, and yes I think I will be doing this in the next couple years    

 

 

Edited January 14 by Dcheech

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

First I do not think there will be a serious TAX. They have yet to really say anything. Yes that law firm paper that is on a couple threads is nice, but the tax office is going to have to re design their tax form if they really mean it. When that happens game on. Note - I already moved my 2014 cash over pre Jan 1. So I already have a year covered, just in case.

 

The easiest route for me is bring 15K (or 20 K?!) USD into Thailand.  You can bring 15K USD (or20) into Thailand without declaring it. I usually make a trip back to home country once a year. As I also get a small government pension, which is protected & tax free, that would cover me right there.

The real issue,  is if and when I buy a house, and yes I think I will be doing this in the next couple years    

I understand the tax forms are currently being redesigned to cater for the new rule, I'll post them as soon as we have sight of them.

[Ben Zioner]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Keep the 400k or 800k in the bank for IMM, and bring in your living expenses via ATM.  Not sure how they would tax that, as hard to tell if you're an expat or tourist.   

IMHO this will be seen as "tax evasion" by RD, if they catch you. One must be aware that they have all the relevant data at their disposal right now. However it is likely that, for a while, they won't have the capability to process that data. But if you gave it to me, I wouldn't have any problem in identifying people [cards] who make frequent withdrawals, all year, rank them, and deliver a list of likely culprits.

[WorriedNoodle]

26 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Should we change the heading to "Tax Optimisation"??

You can, I'll stick with avoidance.

[Mike Lister]

16 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Keep the 400k or 800k in the bank for IMM, and bring in your living expenses via ATM.  Not sure how they would tax that, as hard to tell if you're an expat or tourist.   

That is borderline tax evasion, if not over the line, please don't go there.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well it is quite simple.

 

a) minimise the amount of money, earned after December 2023, you are sending to Thailand,

b) stay no more the 179 days in Thailand in a given year,

c) combine a & b,

d) get an LTR visa.

 

 

e) have your holidays in neighbouring countries.

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

You can, I'll stick with avoidance.

 

The problem is that some countries lump "avoidance" with "evasion" making both illegal.

 

It's really semantics, but "optimisation" skirts the issue.

[Old Croc]

4 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

e) have your holidays in neighbouring countries.

 

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well it is quite simple.

 

a) minimise the amount of money, earned after December 2023, you are sending to Thailand,

b) stay no more the 179 days in Thailand in a given year,

c) combine a & b,

d) get an LTR visa.

A simple, extremely helpful answer for people who now find themselves liable for tax.

1) Don't bring in enough money to attract tax, or a heap of it to buy a rich man's tax-free visa! 

2) Don't continue to live in Thailand.

 

Thanks a lot for some valuable tips that most wouldn't have been able to work out for themselves.

[smokie36]

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

That is borderline tax evasion, if not over the line, please don't go there.

 

Unless you're using Chase or the like isn't this going to cost 220 Baht per transaction?

 

Not very attractive proposition to me.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, smokie36 said:

 

Unless you're using Chase or the like isn't this going to cost 220 Baht per transaction?

 

Not very attractive proposition to me.

Indeed, but it might avoid 200 baht in tax......er! 

[KhunLA]

45 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

That is borderline tax evasion, if not over the line, please don't go there.

Yes & NO, depends  ... as that's exactly how I do it now.   My SS (USA) gets DD in TH bank, and my pension, DD allowed only in USA , so I use ATM to access.   For pure convenience, not having to Q up in the bank, for a half hour, to make a withdrawal.   As not allowed to use ATM with SS account, it's the easiest way to access my pension.

 

I can actually live off the pension, so take that as needed.   I only go in the bank every 3 or 4 months to withdrawal SS, so it doesn't exceed $10k USD balance to avoid FBAR filing.

 

@Ben Zioner

So I won't actually be changing the way I do it, since it's simply more convenient.   I ran the #s, and it/pension, is not enough to warrant a tax anyway.  My situation, it's NO, as being evasive.

 

 

Edited January 14 by KhunLA

[Watchit]

I for one will not at this stage be filing any tax returns. So far nobody has asked me to so why should i volunteer to and give the authorities ideas on how to increase their revenue with something which is really aimed at wealthy, tax dodging Thais.

 

If and only if things get said or obstacles are put in front of my wish to live here will i then look at ways to declare my income as non taxable in Thailand.

 

I fear once the first few farangs start unecessarily paying any tax then the tightening and implementing of rules will begin.

 

I've removed a recommendation to go against current tax law. Mike Lister, Moderator

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yes & NO, depends  ... as that's exactly how I do it now.   My SS (USA) gets DD in TH bank, and my pension, DD allowed only in USA , so I use ATM to access.   For pure convenience, not having to Q up in the bank, for a half hour, to make a withdrawal.   As not allowed to use ATM with SS account, it's the easiest way to access my pension.

 

I can actually live off the pension, so take that as needed.   I only go in the bank every 3 or 4 months to withdrawal SS, so it doesn't exceed $10k USD balance to avoid FBAR filing.

 

So I won't actually be changing the way I do it, since it's simply more convenient.   I ran the #s, and it/pension, is not enough to warrant a tax anyway.  My situation, it's NO, as being evasive.

That's good to hear and I agree, for some people that will be a sensible way to go. I just don't want to give the impression that unlimited ATM withdrawals from overseas banks is a permissible legal approach.

 

Can I also just make sure about something you wrote? The threshold for needing to file a tax return is 120,000 baht assessible income per year, even though no tax would be due on an amount below a higher threshold that includes all the allowance, exemptions etc?.

[Moonlover]

Being what I imagine is 'Mr. Average Income' for a pensioner at around 800,000 THB per year, using a spreadsheet and the figures kindly provided by @Mike Lister in (yet another) thread on this subject, I was able to calculate that I would be liable for around 12,000 THB P/A in tax to  the Thai RD. Not a sum I'm going to panic over. I'm more bothered about having to do yet more paperwork rather than the sum involved.

 

Personally though I'm not bothered at all. I'm still holding to the one statement that we have all read regarding this matter:

 

'Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand'.

 

Thai Enquirer Sept 18th 2023

 

Edited January 14 by Moonlover

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, QuantumQuandry said:

e) Wait to find out how it's actually going to work, if implemented and enforced, at all.

A sensible post in a tax thread!

Unusual