Would you use counterfeit RAM modules?

[BenStark]

4 minutes ago, tgw said:

And maybe yes, you can show me all offers below 1000 baht for WD BLUE 1TB SATA SSD on Lazada or Shopee.

 

And now welcome to my ignore list mr apologist

 

https://shopee.co.th/Wd-โซลิดสเตทไดรฟ์ภายใน-SSD-สีฟ้า-4TB-2TB-1TB-SATA3-2.5-i.13181176.24405110316?sp_atk=3f43b5cc-5a18-4dab-8d90-a5affcac056f&xptdk=3f43b5cc-5a18-4dab-8d90-a5affcac056f

 

https://shopee.co.th/-Instock-3D-Nand-Sata-Ssd-1Tb-Blue-Internal-Pc-Iii-6-Gb-S-E-3--i.266356953.22377583940?sp_atk=9d025dd4-b311-46c7-a0e0-4d09849b57cf&xptdk=9d025dd4-b311-46c7-a0e0-4d09849b57cf

 

https://shopee.co.th/3D-NAND-SATA-SSD-1TB-Blue-3D-NAND-Internal-PC-SSD-SATA-III-6-Gb-s-SATA-SSD-Y-7--i.642825677.12999186507?sp_atk=19b195cb-becf-4339-94f8-086b019f8d42&xptdk=19b195cb-becf-4339-94f8-086b019f8d42

 

https://shopee.co.th/Ssd-3D-NAND-SATA-SSD-1TB-Blue-3D-NAND-ภายใน-PC-SSD-SATA-III-6-Gb-s-2.5-นิ้ว-7-มม.-มากกว่า-560-MB-s-3D-NAND-SATA-SSD-i.259844514.23708709200?sp_atk=1d77904e-ae74-40d0-b95e-f44b6c9f737c&xptdk=1d77904e-ae74-40d0-b95e-f44b6c9f737c

 

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

And now welcome to my ignore list mr apologist

 

https://shopee.co.th/Wd-โซลิดสเตทไดรฟ์ภายใน-SSD-สีฟ้า-4TB-2TB-1TB-SATA3-2.5-i.13181176.24405110316?sp_atk=3f43b5cc-5a18-4dab-8d90-a5affcac056f&xptdk=3f43b5cc-5a18-4dab-8d90-a5affcac056f

 

https://shopee.co.th/-Instock-3D-Nand-Sata-Ssd-1Tb-Blue-Internal-Pc-Iii-6-Gb-S-E-3--i.266356953.22377583940?sp_atk=9d025dd4-b311-46c7-a0e0-4d09849b57cf&xptdk=9d025dd4-b311-46c7-a0e0-4d09849b57cf

 

https://shopee.co.th/3D-NAND-SATA-SSD-1TB-Blue-3D-NAND-Internal-PC-SSD-SATA-III-6-Gb-s-SATA-SSD-Y-7--i.642825677.12999186507?sp_atk=19b195cb-becf-4339-94f8-086b019f8d42&xptdk=19b195cb-becf-4339-94f8-086b019f8d42

 

https://shopee.co.th/Ssd-3D-NAND-SATA-SSD-1TB-Blue-3D-NAND-ภายใน-PC-SSD-SATA-III-6-Gb-s-2.5-นิ้ว-7-มม.-มากกว่า-560-MB-s-3D-NAND-SATA-SSD-i.259844514.23708709200?sp_atk=1d77904e-ae74-40d0-b95e-f44b6c9f737c&xptdk=1d77904e-ae74-40d0-b95e-f44b6c9f737c

 

 

 

indeed!
now why didn't these turn up in my search ?

[Kwaibill]

I suspect some confusion between “fake” vs “ generic”.

[ibjoe]

Consider 3 categories

 

1) Real brand product. The manufacturer generally wants to maintain its reputation and has professional standards and practices to maintain quality.

2) Generic product. The manufacture is less concerned, and mainly wants to undercut the Real brand product price to get market share.

3) Counterfeit product, essentially Generic product that is labeled to be Real brand product.

 

Consider the potential differences between Real brand and Generic product.

1) The chips for Generic may be compromised in various ways, e.g. they could have failed lot testing, be older date codes, been stored in sub-standard environment (e.g. excessive moisture content, been subject to ESD (Electro Static Discharge) damage, had other manufacturing issues, etc. Or they could be real, but stolen. They may function okay in typical use case, but fail under stress, or have reduced life. For example they could have errors and high or low temperatures, less margin as frequencies increase.

2) The circuit boards on which the chips are mounted. They could be sub-standard design or manufacture, leading to sub-optimal performance e.g. at higher frequencies.

3) Assembly of the chips to the board. Again, manufacturing could be sub-standard, e.g. poor soldering, leading to early failure.

 

I would consider Generic, knowing I'm saving money, but with potential reliability issues. I would test them thoroughly first, including at higher speeds, hotter temperatures, and for long times (I've had modules that would only fail every several hours, but one bad bit in the wrong place can ruin a file).

 

I would consider Real brand knowing it may be superior product and have good warranty if it does fail later.

I would avoid counterfeit, Generic should be cheaper for probably the same or better quality.

 

[Skeptic7]

As long as the performance is good and serves the purpose... absolutely yes, I would use them. 

[BenStark]

34 minutes ago, Kwaibill said:

I suspect some confusion between “fake” vs “ generic”.

 

No we are talking here about fake.

 

Carried the brandname, shows up as the real brand in CPU-Z or in command prompt, visually the same as original.

 

The only way I found out was by scanning the QR code.

 

This was supposed to be a DDR4 8GB 2666 MHz module

 

 

[connda]

19 hours ago, BenStark said:

Yes they do, I have provided evidence of counterfeit items multiple times to them, and nothing happens. They just play a game of we take feedback serious, then a few days later you get an email with the request to report it again, and so on.

I purchased a number of servers back early 2000.  We had one of the RAM modules fail (those modules were not 'inexpensive') and sent it back to the vendor for replacement.  The vendor told us is was counterfeit.  The vendor who sold us the equipment and who was my department's primary vendor for IT hardware.

Boy - that was a mistake.  They should have just sent a replacement. 
After management became aware of the issue, everyone from the CEO, to Legal, and the entire chain-of-command of our IT department got involved.  This company has about 4000 employees and has bought a lot of equipment from this vendor.  I attended more than one meeting with large conference rooms full of managers and other senior IT Administrators in conference calls with the vendor and representatives from the equipment's manufacturer.  What a cluster foxtrot.

Now - there is the difference between individual consumers and corporate consumers.

Individuals don't have much recourse other than to file complaints with your country's Office of Consumer Affairs and letters to the company.  Then vote with your feet.  Boycott their products.

[connda]

FYI

Counterfeit RAM?  You don't know how it's designed or what possible malicious code could be embedded in it.
So you take a chance on getting hacked in a major way. 

[BenStark]

17 minutes ago, connda said:

Individuals don't have much recourse other than to file complaints with your country's Office of Consumer Affairs and letters to the company.  Then vote with your feet.  Boycott their products.

 

Yes you can't do anything about, because the platform doesn't care, and neither do the consumer agencies in Thailand.

I have tried to report to the anti-online scam operation centre 1441, and after a 20 minute phone conversation with someone who spoke good English, I just gave up and hang up the phone.

 

The amount of counterfeit goods on those platforms is simply rampant, and most people aren't even aware.

 

You have seen the few examples I posted about the 1TB WD Blue that are sold at 500 baht, and that are just a few examples, but in fact more than 50% (I estimate 80%) of the listings are fake, and not just those that sell at ultra cheap prices.

 

This is just one of the examples in my earlier post of a seller who sells 1TB for 423 baht, and look at the kind of reviews he gets. He sold 41 pieces so far.

 

[BigStar]

Well, if they test OK, I'd use them. Spend the money saved on hookers and blow and call it a day.

 

In my machines I have a stick or two of genuine RAM (just in case) and then filled out the other slots with generic. Lasted years, no problem.

[BenStark]

7 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Well, if they test OK, I'd use them. Spend the money saved on hookers and blow and call it a day.

 

In my machines I have a stick or two of genuine RAM (just in case) and then filled out the other slots with generic. Lasted years, no problem.

 

Please define generic.

 

I assume that generic RAM still has a brand name, and a warranty. Probably even a company contact.

 

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, BenStark said:

I just received PC RAM modules from the usual suspects online, and they are counterfeit.

 

In fact, I knew before even ordering them that they were counterfeit, as I went through the reviews and found plenty of evidence.

 

The only reason I ordered them is that I wanted to see with my own eyes how good copies they are, and then report the seller for counterfeit when I send them back.

 

And yes they are real good copies these days, and most people don't know it, which is evidenced by the hundreds of 5 star reviews the listings get.

 

The package is identical to original, and eyeballing them and comparing to the real thing, doesn't show any difference.

 

Inserting them in the PC and running CPU-Z or other software, shows it is the real thing again. Correct specs, manufacturer correct, chip manufacturer correct.

RAM tests give also positive results.

 

I have looked at Youtubes about how to find the counterfeits, and what is shown there is a different quality of what I received.

 

The only way I could detect it, other that there is no Synnex or other warranty provider sticker, is by scanning the QR code on the module.

 

This results is a completely different RAM module from the same manufacturer. The QR code on the packaging label is completely different by the way, and takes you to Sh**ee and Laz**a.

 

So that brings me to the question.

 

Since they are these days capable of making near perfect counterfeits, who says that the chips are not of near same quality?

 

So would you use them, knowing they are counterfeit, but at half the price

 

If the bogus RAM passes the physical tests, what's the issue? No sticker?

 

And what's wrong with saying Shopee and Lazada?

 

OK, got my kevlar on. Go ahead.

[BigStar]

33 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

Please define generic.

 

I assume that generic RAM still has a brand name, and a warranty. Probably even a company contact.

 

 

Do search on Aliexpress for your specs. Plenty there, cheap. Check the ratings and reviewers, lots of Russians. You can filter on "orders" as well as price.

Edited January 17 by BigStar

[retarius]

23 hours ago, BenStark said:

I just received PC RAM modules from the usual suspects online, and they are counterfeit.

 

In fact, I knew before even ordering them that they were counterfeit, as I went through the reviews and found plenty of evidence.

 

The only reason I ordered them is that I wanted to see with my own eyes how good copies they are, and then report the seller for counterfeit when I send them back.

 

And yes they are real good copies these days, and most people don't know it, which is evidenced by the hundreds of 5 star reviews the listings get.

 

The package is identical to original, and eyeballing them and comparing to the real thing, doesn't show any difference.

 

Inserting them in the PC and running CPU-Z or other software, shows it is the real thing again. Correct specs, manufacturer correct, chip manufacturer correct.

RAM tests give also positive results.

 

I have looked at Youtubes about how to find the counterfeits, and what is shown there is a different quality of what I received.

 

The only way I could detect it, other that there is no Synnex or other warranty provider sticker, is by scanning the QR code on the module.

 

This results is a completely different RAM module from the same manufacturer. The QR code on the packaging label is completely different by the way, and takes you to Sh**ee and Laz**a.

 

So that brings me to the question.

 

Since they are these days capable of making near perfect counterfeits, who says that the chips are not of near same quality?

 

So would you use them, knowing they are counterfeit, but at half the price

Great review, yes I'll use them and save a few dollars. No problem.

[retarius]

4 hours ago, ibjoe said:

Consider 3 categories

 

1) Real brand product. The manufacturer generally wants to maintain its reputation and has professional standards and practices to maintain quality.

2) Generic product. The manufacture is less concerned, and mainly wants to undercut the Real brand product price to get market share.

3) Counterfeit product, essentially Generic product that is labeled to be Real brand product.

 

Consider the potential differences between Real brand and Generic product.

1) The chips for Generic may be compromised in various ways, e.g. they could have failed lot testing, be older date codes, been stored in sub-standard environment (e.g. excessive moisture content, been subject to ESD (Electro Static Discharge) damage, had other manufacturing issues, etc. Or they could be real, but stolen. They may function okay in typical use case, but fail under stress, or have reduced life. For example they could have errors and high or low temperatures, less margin as frequencies increase.

2) The circuit boards on which the chips are mounted. They could be sub-standard design or manufacture, leading to sub-optimal performance e.g. at higher frequencies.

3) Assembly of the chips to the board. Again, manufacturing could be sub-standard, e.g. poor soldering, leading to early failure.

 

I would consider Generic, knowing I'm saving money, but with potential reliability issues. I would test them thoroughly first, including at higher speeds, hotter temperatures, and for long times (I've had modules that would only fail every several hours, but one bad bit in the wrong place can ruin a file).

 

I would consider Real brand knowing it may be superior product and have good warranty if it does fail later.

I would avoid counterfeit, Generic should be cheaper for probably the same or better quality.

 

Or they could work perfectly acceptably in your computer system, like generic drugs do in your body. Indeed given the penchant for cutting corners and saving pennies in US corporations these days, I'm not sure I buy the Real Thing is better and deserves a premium.

[mrfill]

They will be perfectly fine. Right up to the point when they are not. And then you could find your data has been corrupted - only the important stuff, of course...

[retarius]

21 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

Yes they do, I have provided evidence of counterfeit items multiple times to them, and nothing happens. They just play a game of we take feedback serious, then a few days later you get an email with the request to report it again, and so on.

Months later the same sellers are still selling the same counterfeit items.

 

By the way, more than 50% of SSD's and RAM listed on those platforms is counterfeit, and then I know only about those that have the evidence in the customer reviews.

Why would they do anything about counterfeits? They make money out of them and are not being held to ransom by the original maker whose patent has expired allowing them to copy the product. The thing about counterfeits is that they use the OEM's brand equity to hike top their price above that of a purely generic product. I'd buy the generic any day for my own use, or the counterfeit if I wanted to show off to someone, like someone buying a fake Chanel bag. 

When I was 40 and a total fool I bought originals (Chanel, Mont Blanc, Tiffany, Coach, LV, Hermes, and had a collection off branded French silk ties......you dress for people who know about these things). Now I'm out of that environment, I know it is all phoney and you can buy fake <deleted> and show it off (or your wife can).

[BenStark]

The fake RAM modules, which I had ordered from different sellers, have been returned

 

Now I also can see from the tracking that both parcels have been returned to the same address, same phone number and everything else.

 

So tell me again that Shopee is not aware of what is going on

[sometimewoodworker]

On 1/16/2024 at 5:42 PM, BenStark said:

Since they are these days capable of making near perfect counterfeits, who says that the chips are not of near same quality?

 

So would you use them, knowing they are counterfeit, but at half the price

The near perfect counterfeit product is extremely unlikely to test in real world conditions as the genuine product, the near perfect description doesn’t include the actual performance of the chips. If it did there would be no benefit to the seller to discount it by such a large margin. Were they selling product that was actually virtually the same they could economise on the guarantee, this would allow a moderately reduced price, you mention that RAM has a low failure rate, this is QC checked ram

 

in answer to your question running ½ price ram is not worth the savings 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

the near perfect description doesn’t include the actual performance of the chips.

 

The performance can be checked w/ tools. MemTest86 is a standard. And there's

 

https://ram.userbenchmark.com/Software

https://www.passmark.com/products/performancetest/pt_advmem.php

 

Most importantly, the perception of the actual performance of the chips, in a blind test. Real world, the OP probably couldn't tell the slightest difference. First I bought 1866mhz RAM for my old box. Then bought 1666, no perceptible difference. Now we do have extraordinary posters here of utmost delicacy with claim to super sensory perception in most everything, beauty, coffee, and beer especially. Yet I'm amused by this test more than 10 years ago:

 

Most of the time, most of our subjects literally could not tell the difference. In fact, it was worse than that. It wasn't just a case of putting hands up in the air and declaring it a dead heat. Frequently, our testers actually got it the wrong way round, declaring the low-end rig to be rendering with greater fidelity or actually running faster.

     --"Can a £300 gaming PC compare to a £3,000 one?" https://www.techradar.com/news/computing/pc/can-a-300-gaming-pc-compare-to-a-3-000-one-1071338

Edited January 23 by BigStar

[BenStark]

14 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Most importantly, the perception of the actual performance of the chips, in a blind test. Real world, the OP probably couldn't tell the slightest difference. First I bought 1866mhz RAM for my old box. Then bought 1666, no perceptible difference. Now we do have extraordinary posters here of utmost delicacy with claim to super sensory perception in most everything, beauty, coffee, and beer especially. Yet I'm amused by this test more than 10 years ago:

 

The point is not about how it performs today, but how long it will perform. Kingston, and most other brands, have LT warranty. Copy one obviously has no warranty.

 

I also looked up your previous recommendation about generic RAM on Aliexpress, and when I found the most recommended brand with the highest ratings, I started googling the brand name and type.

 

And the review results made it clear that it wasn't what I, and most other users, would be happy with.

 

No I'm not an expert in RAM, neither in coffee nor beer, but at least I don't continuously ridicule others on this forum pretending I'm an expert in everything, like you have the tendency.

[BigStar]

35 minutes ago, BenStark said:

The point is not about how it performs today, but how long it will perform. Kingston, and most other brands, have LT warranty. Copy one obviously has no warranty.

 

That wasn't the point I was addressing, however.

 

RAM chips are so standard nowadays it's highly unlikely you'll ever use that warranty, so not worth paying for. The off brands/generics on Aliexpress also have warranties. Moreover, most people find RAM so cheap that it's not even worth going through a claim. One of my cheap generic sticks been runnin' fine for 5 years, others 3 years. I'd buy again.

 

I've also bought 4 used CPUs from Aliexpress that've been great. Couple years ago I advised a poster here to buy a used FX-8350 instead of a new computer. SHOCK. We had the usual screams. He finally bought a FX-6300 and was happy, no complaints since then.

 

RAM sticks I bought had good ratings from reviewers on Aliexpress. Those Russians are tough, too. Otherwise, you may find a lot of fear-mongering, as you have a tendency to indulge, and bigotry about buying Chinese, common on the forum. I'm old enough to remember all the sneers about Made in Japan, and VW Beetles, aren't you? :)

 

Anyway, you asked for opinions, now didn't you, and you got mine.

 

 

 

Edited January 23 by BigStar