Thai government resists Israeli embassy’s call for hostage release in Gaza

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

No, it wouldn't at all be off topic.  It IS the topic.  And if that's all you can come up with, you are indeed an anti-semite.

I don't believe I am, but you are entitled to play that everlasting card if you wish. 

[ChicagoExpat]

58 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I don't believe I am, but you are entitled to play that everlasting card if you wish. 

I am indeed.  It's only everlasting, however, because anti-semites make it so.

[ChicagoExpat]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Whoa, talk about jingoism. Jihad lover, that's a new one, I've heard Jew hater, I've heard anti-Semitic, but Jihad lover? Wow. Such intellectual creativity and originality, keep it up. 

 

I get called all kinds of names too as it's really not permissible to be critical of Israeli policy these days. At least without being called a surly and juvenile name. 

When someone actively defends Hamas, what is inaccurate about calling them "jihad lover"?

 

Where is it NOT permissible to critical of Israel?  What a straw man you've set up.  I have plenty to criticize Israel for.  Its very existence though, is not part of that package.  Its right to defend itself in conditions SPECIFCALLY CREATED BY HAMAS to create thousands of casualties, so that chuckleheads the world over will call for a "ceasefire" and stoke up the latent Jew hatred already so present in many circles, is not part of that package.  The intention to delay the next October 7 by a few months or years by dismantling the hundreds of miles of tunnels (happily paid for by the UN) and killing as many terrorists as possible, is not part of that package.

[soalbundy]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:44 AM, stoner said:

 

every single country ? 

 

Every country with a convertible currency.

[jacko45k]

37 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

I am indeed.  It's only everlasting, however, because anti-semites make it so.

No, it is because it is forever being played ..... with bloodied hands!

[spidermike007]

59 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

When someone actively defends Hamas, what is inaccurate about calling them "jihad lover"?

 

Where is it NOT permissible to critical of Israel?  What a straw man you've set up.  I have plenty to criticize Israel for.  Its very existence though, is not part of that package.  Its right to defend itself in conditions SPECIFCALLY CREATED BY HAMAS to create thousands of casualties, so that chuckleheads the world over will call for a "ceasefire" and stoke up the latent Jew hatred already so present in many circles, is not part of that package.  The intention to delay the next October 7 by a few months or years by dismantling the hundreds of miles of tunnels (happily paid for by the UN) and killing as many terrorists as possible, is not part of that package.

There really is no logical reason that one can come up with to defend Hamas. They are a terrorist organization after all and they do engage in terror. I was not referring to the defense of Hamas. I was referring to the criticism of Israel and believe me as an American Jew I take a lot of flack for criticizing Israeli government policy, and that goes back 40 years, and that's a fact. The Israeli lobby, the Israeli government, and many Jews and Christians are highly intolerant of any criticism of Israel. Any. Period. 

[Morch]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Whoa, talk about jingoism. Jihad lover, that's a new one, I've heard Jew hater, I've heard anti-Semitic, but Jihad lover? Wow. Such intellectual creativity and originality, keep it up. 

 

I get called all kinds of names too as it's really not permissible to be critical of Israeli policy these days. At least without being called a surly and juvenile name. 

 

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There really is no logical reason that one can come up with to defend Hamas. They are a terrorist organization after all and they do engage in terror. I was not referring to the defense of Hamas. I was referring to the criticism of Israel and believe me as an American Jew I take a lot of flack for criticizing Israeli government policy, and that goes back 40 years, and that's a fact. The Israeli lobby, the Israeli government, and many Jews and Christians are highly intolerant of any criticism of Israel. Any. Period. 

 

You keep whining about being called this or that. As far as I recall, you weren't called (or at least, not nearly as often as you make the claim) an antisemite and so on. Seems like it's more of an excuse to say whatever.

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There really is no logical reason that one can come up with to defend Hamas. They are a terrorist organization after all and they do engage in terror. I was not referring to the defense of Hamas. I was referring to the criticism of Israel and believe me as an American Jew I take a lot of flack for criticizing Israeli government policy, and that goes back 40 years, and that's a fact. The Israeli lobby, the Israeli government, and many Jews and Christians are highly intolerant of any criticism of Israel. Any. Period. 

I call total B.S. 

The majority of American Jews have criticisms of Israeli government policies. 

It is true when such criticism becomes arguing against the right of Israel to exist and defend itself that such people will be accused of being self hating Jews. If the shoe fits.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There really is no logical reason that one can come up with to defend Hamas. They are a terrorist organization after all and they do engage in terror. I was not referring to the defense of Hamas. I was referring to the criticism of Israel and believe me as an American Jew I take a lot of flack for criticizing Israeli government policy, and that goes back 40 years, and that's a fact. The Israeli lobby, the Israeli government, and many Jews and Christians are highly intolerant of any criticism of Israel. Any. Period. 

Yet surprise surprise messaging in support of Hamas is de rigeur at Free Palestine rallies. 

[billd766]

On 1/17/2024 at 4:39 PM, Jingthing said:

Gaza is not part of Israel.

Don't you know that?

I see you're just trolling anyway.

If Gaza is not a part of Israel as you keep telling us, why have the Israeli's invaded Gaza and slaughtered so many Palestinians?

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If Gaza is not a part of Israel as you keep telling us, why have the Israeli's invaded Gaza and slaughtered so many Palestinians?

 

@billd766

 

Wars are often fought outside of countries' borders.

I'm sure you thought you had a clever point.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If Gaza is not a part of Israel as you keep telling us, why have the Israeli's invaded Gaza and slaughtered so many Palestinians?

The current Israeli vs. Hamas war is a response to October 7.

Israel hasn't had any settlements in Gaza since 2005.

Gaza is governed by Hamas.

 

[Brickleberry]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A one state solution is the final solution for the Jews of Israel as it would mean the end of Israel.

Israel exists. It isn't going anywhere regardless of what flavor of narrative you choose to give credibility to. 

 

It would not mean the end of Israel, it would be an end to a racist, apartheid state.

 

It would become a true democracy without local committees that decide who can or can't live in which neighborhood. It would become a state where everyone is free to practice whatever religion they wish. It would become a multi-cultural democracy like that of the UK & US. Israel & Palestine should both be free and united.

 

Using language like 'final solution' is just childish - it comes straight from Hitler's own mouth. Was not the nakba, and 75 years of occupation and persecution not the final solution for Palestinians? Are we not seeing the far right Israeli government razing Gaza to the ground,whilst killing and evicting  hundreds in the West Bank? Did Bibi not invoke 'Amaleks' to encourage the death of every Palestinian in Gaza? Are we not seeing all hospitals schools and mosques being destroyed? Are we not seeing IDF soldiers killing so indiscriminately, that they are killing their own hostages naked and waving white flags in Gaza? Tell me, truly, who is the one side capable of committing genocide? It is only the Israelis, Palestinians do not have enough power or military might to do much damage to the people of Israel.

[Rimmer]

An off topic history lesson and a reply have been removed, here is the topic title and what we should be discussing:

 

Thai government resists Israeli embassy’s call for hostage release in Gaza

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

It would become a state where everyone is free to practice whatever religion they wish. It would become a multi-cultural democracy like that of the UK & US.

 

   Israel is already like that at the moment, so there is no need to change anything in that respect .

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

If Gaza is not a part of Israel as you keep telling us, why have the Israeli's invaded Gaza and slaughtered so many Palestinians?

 

   The reason for the war is well know , although I expect that you have an alternative reality theory ?

[Brickleberry]

12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Israel is already like that at the moment, so there is no need to change anything in that respect .

 

Seriously? Did you not read about the Nation state law passed in 2018:

 

It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.”

It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.”

 

Not very multi-cultural or democratic eh?

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  This war DID start on October 7th , you cannot change that  fact .

Israel declared war on October 7 th and there wasn't war on the previous day

Telling the BIG LIE that it didn't start on October 7 is a transparent gambit to try to cover up and deny the historical significance of what happened that date. It's a sort of modern twist on holocaust denial. It's a way of relieving Hamas of their culpability in what's happened since in Gaza. Of course the CONFLICT is long standing. But THIS WAR did indeed start October 7. 

[Jingthing]

36 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Seriously? Did you not read about the Nation state law passed in 2018:

 

It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.”

It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.”

 

Not very multi-cultural or democratic eh?

It's the most democratic and multicultural nation state in the region by far.

Perfect democracies are hard to come by kind of like unicorns.

Also though it's lost on the River to the Sea brigade but a huge part of the amazing diversity of Israel comes from the diversity of JEWISH PEOPLE in Israel. 

I'm particularly fascinated by Argentinian Jews. 

 

 

Edited January 19 by Jingthing

[RocketDog]

On 1/17/2024 at 10:04 AM, Gottfrid said:

I don´t think that is a country.

You're kidding, right?

I was there once. I get it.

😏

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

It would not mean the end of Israel, it would be an end to a racist, apartheid state.

 

It would become a true democracy without local committees that decide who can or can't live in which neighborhood. It would become a state where everyone is free to practice whatever religion they wish. It would become a multi-cultural democracy like that of the UK & US. Israel & Palestine should both be free and united.

 

Using language like 'final solution' is just childish - it comes straight from Hitler's own mouth. Was not the nakba, and 75 years of occupation and persecution not the final solution for Palestinians? Are we not seeing the far right Israeli government razing Gaza to the ground,whilst killing and evicting  hundreds in the West Bank? Did Bibi not invoke 'Amaleks' to encourage the death of every Palestinian in Gaza? Are we not seeing all hospitals schools and mosques being destroyed? Are we not seeing IDF soldiers killing so indiscriminately, that they are killing their own hostages naked and waving white flags in Gaza? Tell me, truly, who is the one side capable of committing genocide? It is only the Israelis, Palestinians do not have enough power or military might to do much damage to the people of Israel.

 

That would be you fantasizing.

 

Look around the Middle East. Find one country in which there's peaceful co-existence between communities, equal rights, transparency, and the rest. Short version, there is none. Longer version, countries that tried this are nowadays almost failed states.

 

It's all very well to toss slogans about, but helps to know what you're talking about.

 

There is no one, and I mean no one, who envisages this one-state taking off without any issues.

 

You can whine all you want about Israel's right wing government, Israel's policies and so on. What's missing from your tirade is any mention of the other side, which I guess you're not overly familiar with.

 

Get a clue, then post again.

 

[metisdead]

Another off topic history lesson and the replies have been removed, here is the topic title and what we should be discussing:

 

Thai government resists Israeli embassy’s call for hostage release in Gaza

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Telling the BIG LIE that it didn't start on October 7 is a transparent gambit to try to cover up and deny the historical significance of what happened that date. It's a sort of modern twist on holocaust denial. It's a way of relieving Hamas of their culpability in what's happened since in Gaza. Of course the CONFLICT is long standing. But THIS WAR did indeed start October 7. 

 

   Yes, and to try to give the impression that Israel isn't attacking Gaza because of October 7 th and that Israel aren't hunting down the Hamas criminals to bring those murders to justice , they try to portray this current conflict as part of a long going 80 year war and that the events on Oct 7 th are insignificant and that Israel attacked Gaza first 

[Brickleberry]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Telling the BIG LIE that it didn't start on October 7 is a transparent gambit to try to cover up and deny the historical significance of what happened that date. It's a sort of modern twist on holocaust denial. It's a way of relieving Hamas of their culpability in what's happened since in Gaza. Of course the CONFLICT is long standing. But THIS WAR did indeed start October 7. 

Actually no, you can't even call it a war. Gaza is (and has been - including the West Bank) an occupied territory for decades. Wars are fought between nation states with standing armies. Gaza is an occupied and controlled territory. Israel even controls the birth records!

 

People talk about Israel leaving Gaza in 2006, but that is just ignorant of the situation. They control the air, electricity, water, airwaves, everything going in and out of Gaza etc.

 

I listen to Jewish & prominent Israeli professors and journalists to get the real inside scoop. Folks like Gideon Levy and Norman Finklestien. Educate yourselves. When these world famous experts say it is a genocide, and call Israel an occupying power in the west bank and Gaza - as do all international aid bodies, the UN, ICC & ICJ also all agree on this. Moving the prison guards to the perimeter of the prison is still a prison.

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

People talk about Israel leaving Gaza in 2006, but that is just ignorant of the situation. They control the air, electricity, water, airwaves, everything going in and out of Gaza etc.

 

 

  Israel didn't  control the Gaza/ Egyptian border , that was controlled by Egypt .................and you call others ignorant :)

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Actually no, you can't even call it a war. Gaza is (and has been - including the West Bank) an occupied territory for decades. Wars are fought between nation states with standing armies. Gaza is an occupied and controlled territory. Israel even controls the birth records!

 

People talk about Israel leaving Gaza in 2006, but that is just ignorant of the situation. They control the air, electricity, water, airwaves, everything going in and out of Gaza etc.

 

I listen to Jewish & prominent Israeli professors and journalists to get the real inside scoop. Folks like Gideon Levy and Norman Finklestien. Educate yourselves. When these world famous experts say it is a genocide, and call Israel an occupying power in the west bank and Gaza - as do all international aid bodies, the UN, ICC & ICJ also all agree on this. Moving the prison guards to the perimeter of the prison is still a prison.

Of course you listen to Finkelstein!

 

 

Edited January 19 by Jingthing

[Brickleberry]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Of course you listen to Finkelstein!

 

 

Douglas Murray is an awful human being. He tried smearing Mr Finklestien, saying he was a holocaust denier - he forgot to tell his audience that Mr Finklestien's parents were both holocaust survivors and he often talks about his parents and the holocaust. He has studied, taught and written books about this conflict for over 40 years. He is an internationally renowned expert on this conflict, and lived in Gaza and the West Bank for many years.

 

If you get your information from Douglas Murray, then you are only hearing Israeli talking points and right wing ideology.

 

Gideon Levy is an award winning, prominent Israeli journalist who still lives in Israel, working for Haaretz newspaper. Another distinguished individual who has written books about this subject, won awards and talks around the world about it. Look at what he says about people who provide unconditional support to the right wing Israeli government.

 

I listen to people who are experts, who have lived through it. If your watching Douglas Murray and other 'talk TV' type folks, then your only getting half the story. Every nation around the world is starting to see what is really going on, hence the massive drop in support for Israels actions. Let's see what the ICJ says in the coming week or so, that will put an end to all this nonsense.

 

EDIT: if you look at Piers Morgan's more recent videos, you will see that his tune has changed dramatically. He is now calling out Israel for its actions.

 

 

Edited January 19 by Brickleberry

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Douglas Murray is an awful human being. He tried smearing Mr Finklestien, saying he was a holocaust denier - he forgot to tell his audience that Mr Finklestien's parents were both holocaust survivors and he often talks about his parents and the holocaust. He has studied, taught and written books about this conflict for over 40 years. He is an internationally renowned expert on this conflict, and lived in Gaza and the West Bank for many years.

 

If you get your information from Douglas Murray, then you are only hearing Israeli talking points and right wing ideology.

 

Gideon Levy is an award winning, prominent Israeli journalist who still lives in Israel, working for Haaretz newspaper. Another distinguished individual who has written books about this subject, won awards and talks around the world about it. Look at what he says about people who provide unconditional support to the right wing Israeli government.

 

I listen to people who are experts, who have lived through it. If your watching Douglas Murray and other 'talk TV' type folks, then your only getting half the story. Every nation around the world is starting to see what is really going on, hence the massive drop in support for Israels actions. Let's see what the ICJ says in the coming week or so, that will put an end to all this nonsense.

 

EDIT: if you look at Piers Morgan's more recent videos, you will see that his tune has changed dramatically. He is now calling out Israel for its actions.

 

 

Don't give Finklestien too much credit, he has his critics who are also specialists in their fields. Not sure where you picked up he lived in Gaza or West Bank

 

17 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

renowned expert on this conflict, and lived in Gaza and the West Bank for many years.

 

The book was unfavorably reviewed by Joost Hiltermann, who objected to Finkelstein's "abrasiveness, righteous anger, hyperbole, distortions and unwarranted generalizations", and to his generalizations about West Bank Palestinians:

Finkelstein commits the error of assuming that he saw everything there was to see during his trips to the West Bank, and that what he saw represented reality. This leads to absurd observations. He claims, for example, that "many Palestinians are fluent in English" (p. 4), that "many" homes he visited were "equipped with the latest, wide-screen, color models" of television (p. 6), and that "women wore bikinis at the beach" (p. 18).[6]

Hiltermann wrote that while "there is plenty of reason to be anguished about the terrible injustice inflicted upon the Palestinian", Finkelstein's "bludgeoning" style wouldn't reach an audience beyond those already converted.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Brickleberry said:

Actually no, you can't even call it a war. Gaza is (and has been - including the West Bank) an occupied territory for decades. Wars are fought between nation states with standing armies. Gaza is an occupied and controlled territory. Israel even controls the birth records!

 

People talk about Israel leaving Gaza in 2006, but that is just ignorant of the situation. They control the air, electricity, water, airwaves, everything going in and out of Gaza etc.

 

I listen to Jewish & prominent Israeli professors and journalists to get the real inside scoop. Folks like Gideon Levy and Norman Finklestien. Educate yourselves. When these world famous experts say it is a genocide, and call Israel an occupying power in the west bank and Gaza - as do all international aid bodies, the UN, ICC & ICJ also all agree on this. Moving the prison guards to the perimeter of the prison is still a prison.

 

Most people call it a war. You want to argue otherwise, that's up to you.

Gaza has not been under Israeli occupation since 2005.

Wars are not necessarily fought between two nations, plenty of wars nowadays between state and non-state players.

Israel controls Gaza's birth records? Where did you come up with this nonsense?

 

Israel did leave the Gaza Strip. All them restrictions - they are a product of Hamas agenda and policy, which you insist on ignoring.

In case you missed it, the Gaza Strip borders Egypt as well - and Egypt maintains it's own set of restrictions as to what and who goes in and out.

 

Gideon Levy and Norman Finkelstein are fringe, extreme left, and anti-Zionist. If you get your 'views' from them, it's no wonder they are so warped.

Neither is a 'world famous expert' the way you present it.

 

Not very good prison guards considering the 'inmates' manages to stockpile thousands of rockets, dig hundreds of miles of tunnels, and carry out a major surprise attack, killing over a 1000 people and kidnapping more than 200.

 

Any other nonsense yo need clarifying?

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Douglas Murray is an awful human being. He tried smearing Mr Finklestien, saying he was a holocaust denier - he forgot to tell his audience that Mr Finklestien's parents were both holocaust survivors and he often talks about his parents and the holocaust. He has studied, taught and written books about this conflict for over 40 years. He is an internationally renowned expert on this conflict, and lived in Gaza and the West Bank for many years.

 

If you get your information from Douglas Murray, then you are only hearing Israeli talking points and right wing ideology.

 

Gideon Levy is an award winning, prominent Israeli journalist who still lives in Israel, working for Haaretz newspaper. Another distinguished individual who has written books about this subject, won awards and talks around the world about it. Look at what he says about people who provide unconditional support to the right wing Israeli government.

 

I listen to people who are experts, who have lived through it. If your watching Douglas Murray and other 'talk TV' type folks, then your only getting half the story. Every nation around the world is starting to see what is really going on, hence the massive drop in support for Israels actions. Let's see what the ICJ says in the coming week or so, that will put an end to all this nonsense.

 

EDIT: if you look at Piers Morgan's more recent videos, you will see that his tune has changed dramatically. He is now calling out Israel for its actions.

 

 

 

Both are fringe, extreme left, anti-Zionists. Why would you imagine that their views are not biased?