Fixing Thai education is not just a matter of money

[john donson]

if the teacher sxxx then how can kids learn anything useful?

 

rote learning and automatic passing the grade

 

surprised thailand does not invent anything? just cheap copies ?

 

cheap uneducated labor for slave wages are easy to control and manipulate... 

[scorecard]

45 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Everybody knows that the people/students living in Singapore are, on average, of higher intelligence.

But, we are talking about education.

Did you watch the Noam video links I posted?

If not, please do, and then get back to me.

Thank you.

 

Also, I was not aware that there existed a highly credible uni in Vietnam, especially one where the curriculum is taught in English.

Have you, in fact, ever even read an MA thesis written by an ESL author?

Gibberish and Garbage, at the very best.

 

Anyway, I do not wish to disabuse you of your fantasies...

And, as everyone knows, trying to change anyone's views by resorting to logic is a fool's errand.

 

But, if you are open minded, then take a few minutes to watch the Noam videos I posted in a previous comment, and enjoy!

 

 

 

 I know what I'm talking about and I don't appreciate your attempts at put down, in fact you're grandstanding is insulting.

 

Yes Vietnam has many excellent universities and most/all have English language programs both bachelor and masters levels. Many are branches of highly recognised unis from many countries in Europe, Australia and New Zealand. These programs are always full.

 

I've been an invited member of masters thesis committees in several VN unis, the thesis submissions all written by VN students in English. Some (as always) are nowhere near what is expected for many reasons, many are excellent and the English language quality quite good.

 

Further, don't instruct me what I should watch.

 

Bye. 

 

 

[ikke1959]

Thai education can not be fixed with money but with a totally new system. As I wrote earlier kids should be obliged to study at the nearest school at their house... with 14.500 small school it must be possible to achieve that. benefits for the kids they can sleep longer are at home earlier and have more free time. Secondly no 50 kids in a classroom anymore ..hHow can you teach some one if you don't have time to help the student. No more extra classes after school allowed and in the weekends special classes. Teachers should be able to do their job in the time of school, and not giving extra classes, where most of the time kids do their homework, or get extra points because they pay teachers for extra lessons. Than the always pass  policy must be banned. Kids should learn that if you want to achieve something in your life you have to work for it. I have seen a lot of kids who didn't do anything in classes during the primary school, but always passed to the next grade. Stop with that. and also stop with all the wasted times of practice for this and that while most of time they are be told what they have to do and what the director expects from hem but they are sitting the whole morning or afternoon in the compound ding nothing. and also stop with boyscout in schooltime. It should be on a Saturday and for those who want and not in a school. And I haven many more

[GammaGlobulin]

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 I know what I'm talking about and I don't appreciate your attempts at put down, in fact you're grandstanding is insulting.

 

Yes Vietnam has many excellent universities and most/all have English language programs both bachelor and masters levels. Many are branches of highly recognised unis from many countries in Europe, Australia and New Zealand. These programs are always full.

 

I've been an invited member of masters thesis committees in several VN unis, the thesis submissions all written by VN students in English. Some (as always) are nowhere near what is expected for many reasons, many are excellent and the English language quality quite good.

 

Further, don't instruct me what I should watch.

 

Bye. 

 

 

 

When you say..."excellent", you mean excellent in what way, might I ask?

Do you mean by global ranking standards?

Such as these excellent schools?

 

 

Or, do you mean, "excellent", by Vietnam Standards?

Such as these Vietnam unis you think are excellent?

 

 

Personally, I would never think of studying at a Vietnam uni.

Too many outstanding students there.

The competition from fellow students might be too daunting and overwhelming for me.

How did you ever manage to read those ESL theses, which, in my view, often read like feces.

 

Just an opinion based on evidence.

 

Or, please provide a few unedited examples of the English writing level of students at Vietnam universities, if you will.

 

Let's all have a very good laugh.

 

Bye, My Friend....

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

32 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Further, don't instruct me what I should watch.

 

I was not instructing you what you should watch, but merely suggesting that, if you are open minded, then you might truly enjoy Chomsky's views on education.

As you may know, many around the world are interested in Chomsky's views on education.

 

And, as well, even here in Thailand, we should be interested in Chomsky's views on education, whether or not we might entirely agree.

 

Chomsky is no chump, after all....

When it comes to teaching....

One must admit....

I think.

 

[Rimmer]

12 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Singapore is the PITS of education.

 

Who wants to be a robot?

 

Talk about INSULAR, and exhibiting insular thinking.

 

These Singapore Guys are just too constrained and too narrow minded, in my view.

And, they DO NOT even know it!

 

Take the Cane to Them, is the best way to beat some sense into them, maybe....

 

They have been inculcated in group think.

Beat it out of them with their own canes, is the best solution, maybe...

 

 

I lived and worked in Singapore for 22 years, their education system is top notch, their businessmen and government departments are efficient and well able to think outside of the box, the country is smart, successful and well run.  

 

As for caning you are probably referring to the Michael Fay indecent when Michael was caned because he stole road signs and damaged 18 cars, he got what he deserved.

[dinsdale]

5 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Newton 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1726/27

Leibniz  1646–1716

Goethe 28 August 1749 – 22 March 1832

 

21st Century teaching....Indeed...

 

Rather....

21st Century Schizoid Man, is more like it...

 

 

 

Someday, when you are older, you might gain more perspective and more insight into education, and...by that time...you...might...

Get Educated....

 

I'm a qualified teacher who has been teaching for more than 20 yrs. I suggest you keep your puerile comments to yourself. 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

 

I lived and worked in Singapore for 22 years, their education system is top notch, their businessmen and government departments are efficient and well able to think outside of the box, the country is smart, successful and well run.  

 

As for caning you are probably referring to the Michael Fay indecent when Michael was caned because he stole road signs and damaged 18 cars, he got what he deserved.

 

a. Although I do recall, very well, the controversy concerning the caning of Fay, I was not thinking of Fay when I mentioned this type of punishment still being doled out in Singapore. I was only referring to the statistics, and caning in general, in Singapore:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#:~:text=A male offender between the,total number of offences committed.

 

 

b. Concerning the state of education in Singapore, we can rely on rankings to obtain a rough idea of the state of the education system in Singapore.

 

And also, we might ask the question why do Singaporean students perform so well.

is it due to the education system?

Or, is it due to other factors outside the formal education system?

 

c. If we look at the rankings of Singapore universities, do they rank high on the global scale? 

 

They do not....

Note especially.

 

Personally, I would not attend a uni in Singapore, just because one would get a substandard education...compared to some slouch school like PENN, or Princeton, or University of Chicago, not to mention Oxford.  Even the University of Hong Kong is FAR better, as everybody knows.

 

Also, as I mentioned, there are good reasons why the students in Singapore preform well.  One can easily google the reasons, but culture is a major factor, and intelligence is another factor, as is Singapore's economy, and other factors.

 

But this does not mean that the education system in Singapore is good.  It only means that the education system in Singapore is better than that of Cambodia, and many other countries in the region.

 

d.  There are many scholarly articles published on this Topic, including articles published by various governmental organizations, as well.

 

e.  First, though, it is important to define what education is or should be.  And, so far, nobody commenting in this Topic has yet attempted to define education, other than Noam Chomsky, in the two video links previously posted.

 

Obviously, education is needed to pass culture from one generation to the next.  But, besides this, then what is it and what should it be?  How much control should governments exert over education?  Education no longer works well in China due to government controls on free sharing of information.  And, we know that Singapore has also exerted control over the free flow of information.... That, and chewing gum while in the underground, or is that all in the past?

 

f.  Anyway, best to be at Oxford rather than at some university in Singapore, many would say.

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

43 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I'm a qualified teacher who has been teaching for more than 20 yrs. I suggest you keep your puerile comments to yourself. 

 

 

Hopefully, we, as well as any teachers here, should recognize that we are here to exchange views and opinions in a respectful way, mindful of the fact that no two people ever share an identical set of opinions about any given Topic.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

So...anyway....

 

To quote the headline of this Topic:  Fixing Thai Education is not just a matter for money....

 

This is obvious.

 

a. First decide the goals of education

b. Then create a system of education which will promote these goals.

 

So .... then....what are the crucial goals of education?  Why not consider the thinking of Humboldt?

 

 

Or, if in a highly regimented society, such as Singapore and North Korea, or Xi's China....  Then the goals of education are far different.  Nobody running the ed system in China wishes to educate World Citizens, maybe.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humboldtian_model_of_higher_education

 

Of course, it seems that we are now witnessing a transformation of the Chinese education system under Xi Jinping.

Does anybody expect this to go well when this transformation is politically motivated, and also not science-based?

 

If anyone were to set out to "fix" and transform the Thai education system, then changes should be science-based and tested utilizing the long-forgotten Scientific Method.

 

Opinions are like aholes, and everybody's got one.

 

But, this is why we resort to the Scientific Method before we put in place random policies, based on random opinions, to guide education.

Correct?

No, not correct.

 

Nobody, these days, loves science or the Scientific Method, especially guys like Xi, and many others.

 

Science, for these guys is just too inconvenient.

 

But not to worry because, nothing will change.

And that might be a good thing, because....

Change is stressful....

 

And nobody up there likes stress.

 

 

 

[Negita43]

22 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

And, take a lesson.

Well Gamma - my favourite quote from Friedrich Nietzsche is:

“For believe me! — the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is: to live dangerously! Build your cities on the slopes of Vesuvius! Send your ships into uncharted seas! Live at war with your peers and yourselves! Be robbers and conquerors as long as you cannot be rulers and possessors, you seekers of knowledge! Soon the age will be past when you could be content to live hidden in forests like shy deer! At long last the search for knowledge will reach out for its due: — it will want to rule and possess, and you with it!”

From, would you believe, "The Gay Science" - of course "Gay" had a whole different meaning when he wrote it.

But you are certainly living dangerously with your philosophical post.

[nausea]

Teach in a Thai public school for a year and you'll soon understand why there's a problem. 

[Lacessit]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:58 PM, GammaGlobulin said:

Very interesting Topic!

 

Somehow, a more dedicated ethos involving the importance of education, reading, diligence, homework, study, and a more STEM-oriented curriculum, needs to be instilled in all children from a very early age.

 

The Chinese can do it, and are doing it, and have been doing it for hundreds of years.

 

If the Chinese are able to do it, then everyone can just follow their lead.

 

Simple.

 

 

No, not that simple. If you start teaching science, technology, engineering and math to kids, that's a good start. However, it leaves out critical thinking and problem-solving capabilities in the real world.

 

During my working career, I guarantee I only used about 5-10% of the knowledge and training I received during primary, secondary, and tertiary education. The rest I learned on the various jobs I had.

 

I wouldn't say the Chinese are the perfect model for schooling. If they taught critical thinking and problem-solving in China, the CCP would probably be in the dustbin of history by now.

 

The same applies to the Thai elites, which is why nothing meaningful will be done.

[Lacessit]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:42 AM, dinsdale said:

I'm a qualified teacher who has been teaching for more than 20 yrs. I suggest you keep your puerile comments to yourself. 

 

Are you a teacher with 20 years experience, or a teacher who has repeated one year's experience 20 times?

[dinsdale]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Are you a teacher with 20 years experience, or a teacher who has repeated one year's experience 20 times?

Ah! The wit of a five year old. Very good.  

Edited January 20 by dinsdale

[Lacessit]

23 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Ah! The wit of a five year old. Very good.  

Good teachers make their subject interesting, bad ones make the topic dull. Kids can tell the difference.

 

Your response tells me all I need to know about how good a teacher you were/are.

[jacko45k]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:32 AM, Rumpelstilskin said:

So many parents ignoring their children to stare at the phone, as childhood slips away.

The children too are palmed off to a phone or Ipad to keep them quiet and amused. A table or more of zombies at many a restaurant.....Places like Pa Boons at least have playgrounds and animals to distract them. 

[dinsdale]

On 1/20/2024 at 9:16 PM, Lacessit said:

Good teachers make their subject interesting, bad ones make the topic dull. Kids can tell the difference.

 

Your response tells me all I need to know about how good a teacher you were/are.

Blackboard, chalk and 40+ in a classroom. Tells me all I need to know about how much you know about teaching conditions in a lot of Thai public schools. Teachers try to make things interesting but it's not easy in a system that is more akin to the 1950's classroom.

[Chris Daley]

50 percent of the money goes to superintendents, supreme personnel, special officers, lieutenants executive chief vice officer of ceremonies.

 

There is so much useless staff in a Thai school.  I swear halls of people.  Ageing fossils that pick up the paychecks but don't the work.

 

They could easily fire 50 percent of the staff and the school would not notice any difference.  All of that money could then be used to improve the school.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

Blackboard, chalk and 40+ in a classroom. Tells me all I need to know about how much you know about teaching conditions in a lot of Thai public schools. Teachers try to make things interesting but it's not easy in a system that is more akin to the 1950's classroom.

I don't know anything about teaching. I know a fair bit about being taught, in both private and public schools.

I don't disagree teaching 40+ students would be a hard row to hoe, and would tempt many teachers to just go through the motions.

I was fortunate in having good teachers at the primary and secondary stage, who encouraged and extended me, to the point I won scholarships at both the secondary and tertiary level. The first WAS in a 1950's classroom.

OTOH, I had a history teacher who made the subject insufferably dull, although I now find it fascinating.

I don't know how private and public schools compare in Thailand. IME, private school teachers in the West are better paid, have manageable class sizes, and are better at what they do. Perhaps it is a positive feedback loop.

[gamb00ler]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:09 PM, Gottfrid said:

The big problem is parents lack of time, as they rather get lost in their mobile phone world. The result is that also the children start that kind of life and behavior at a far too low age. Even the teachers are sitting with their phones up during the lessons. Simply a lost world, where it more popular to hide in a virtual world, than to live life in reality.

Also the parent's education is often severely lacking so they are unable to assist their children in understanding the lessons.

 

I was extremely fortunate in that my mother was a teacher ... and I am the youngest child.  My mother made sure my elder siblings had help with their lessons.... and they in turn helped me with mine.  The school we attended was essentially a bare minimum one.  It was one room with one teacher and about 20 students in grades 1 through 8.

 

We were well educated because of my mother's devotion to that task.  That shows how important parental input is to a child's education.

Edited January 22 by gamb00ler