candide Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal okay to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? I already stated my position several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? DOJ has always maintained that retention of classified documents and refusing to give them back is a crime. Returning the documents when they are discovered mitigates the crime. Trump refused to return all of the classified documents. That's a crime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 5 hours ago, Yellowtail said: Do you have anything that supports that it was legal to remove boxes of documents and store them at home? 15 years after they were removed, and coincidentally right before they went after Trump. And why have his staff not been taken to task? Yes. I am unclear on how it was legal for Biden to remove the documents, and do you have anything that supports that? I am also unclear how giving documents back erases the crime. I think you are making up the part about Biden removing and taking home documents being legal. I think it is almost never acceptable to instruct anyone to lie. OK, the magnitude of clueless BS you present overwhelms me. I'll just ask two questions. What is your real world experience with classified? Do you not see the difference between promptly returning classified after it has been discovered, and fighting and lying to keep it? Feel free to ignore everything about my reply except the second question. That is the one you are desperately trying to divert attention from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 hours ago, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? 4 hours ago, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal okay to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? Is it your position that the applicable law, the Espionage Act, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793, needs updating? If so, yeah, probable. Is it your position that what Trump did is acceptable? Strongly disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipalongcassidy Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 15 hours ago, heybruce said: Do you realize that everything that you post makes Trump look worse? I could give a rat's ass what trump looks like... prosecute him for all I care... but propping joe up and giving him a free pass for being forgetful and making it ok for him to have classified documents while pursuing charges against trump is just plain wrong... demoncrats have lost their way when it come to equality... and no equity is not the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 8 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said: I could give a rat's ass what trump looks like... prosecute him for all I care... but propping joe up and giving him a free pass for being forgetful and making it ok for him to have classified documents while pursuing charges against trump is just plain wrong... demoncrats have lost their way when it come to equality... and no equity is not the same. As has been explained to you repeatedly, finding classified in an insecure location and following proper procedures to return them is not illegal. Keeping them is. Why is that so difficult for Trump supporters to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 1/24/2024 at 2:13 PM, candide said: Not propaganda, it just makes sense. The core MAGA and conservative will vote Trump. However, It's the moderate and independents who will de facto choose the winner. Trump surely not being "moderate", he may not appeal to them. Millions will vote for Trump because they hate the hypocrisy and politicisation of the courts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, heybruce said: As has been explained to you repeatedly, finding classified in an insecure location and following proper procedures to return them is not illegal. Keeping them is. Why is that so difficult for Trump supporters to understand? Biden would never do that right... oh wait he's an elderly and confused man so that's ok then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, BobBKK said: Biden would never do that right... oh wait he's an elderly and confused man so that's ok then How does your biased opinion change the fact that Trump fought to keep documents he had no right to keep? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, heybruce said: How does your biased opinion change the fact that Trump fought to keep documents he had no right to keep? It does seem stupid and I don't know his reasoning - to what purpose? I think "fight to keep" is OTT. He was probably too busy and just didn't pay much attention to his staff storing them - the same could be said for Biden, to be fair. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, BobBKK said: It does seem stupid and I don't know his reasoning - to what purpose? I think "fight to keep" is OTT. He was probably too busy and just didn't pay much attention to his staff storing them - the same could be said for Biden, to be fair. Yet he wasn't too busy to instruct his lawyer to lie about the presence of these classified documents. "Prosecutors allege former President Donald Trump took several steps to obstruct the investigation into his handling of classified documents, according to the federal indictment unsealed Friday. Trump told his attorney to tell the Justice Department that he didn’t have the documents sought by the subpoena, prosecutors say in the indictment. In addition, it alleges, Trump directed his aide Walt Nauta to move documents to hide them from Trump’s own attorneys and FBI agents, and even suggested to his lawyer to “hide or destroy documents” sought by the subpoena. " https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-indictment-classified-documents-06-09-23/h_9390e2eb89bb80da5ad0665837b52359 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 13 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said: I could give a rat's ass what trump looks like... prosecute him for all I care... but propping joe up and giving him a free pass for being forgetful and making it ok for him to have classified documents while pursuing charges against trump is just plain wrong... demoncrats have lost their way when it come to equality... and no equity is not the same. A Republican Special Counsel cleared Biden. As long as you don't know the facts, why expose yourself by posting? Classified Documents Get Misplaced All the Time. A Former National Archives Official Explains Why "As a matter of fact, I recall at one point in my career when I had a security violation. I worked in a SCIF, I was going to Williamsburg, Virginia, to give a speech, and my secretary handed me my itinerary. Unbeknownst to my secretary and myself, it had a paperclip inadvertently attached to classified documents." Edited February 20 by Danderman123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, heybruce said: Yet he wasn't too busy to instruct his lawyer to lie about the presence of these classified documents. "Prosecutors allege former President Donald Trump took several steps to obstruct the investigation into his handling of classified documents, according to the federal indictment unsealed Friday. Trump told his attorney to tell the Justice Department that he didn’t have the documents sought by the subpoena, prosecutors say in the indictment. In addition, it alleges, Trump directed his aide Walt Nauta to move documents to hide them from Trump’s own attorneys and FBI agents, and even suggested to his lawyer to “hide or destroy documents” sought by the subpoena. " https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-indictment-classified-documents-06-09-23/h_9390e2eb89bb80da5ad0665837b52359 It alleges, yet you state it as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 hours ago, heybruce said: As has been explained to you repeatedly, finding classified in an insecure location and following proper procedures to return them is not illegal. Keeping them is. So, it's you're position that Biden just "found" the documents? That's hilarious. 7 hours ago, heybruce said: Why is that so difficult for Trump supporters to understand? This issue is not a lack of understanding, it's that most non-leftists (and non-data-driven-centrists) do not believe it. For example, I don't believe that Biden had the documents for years illegally, and just happened to "find" them a few weeks before they his Justice Department went after Trump. Hey, wasn't Biden bragging about the classified documents he had to his ghost-writer back in 2017? If so, why did he not give them back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 2/19/2024 at 11:22 AM, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? What's your point in mischaracterizing the Espionage Act? You don't care if anyone answers your questions, you just keep on trolling. Your questions are not in good faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: For example, I don't believe that Biden had the documents for years illegally, and just happened to "find" them a few weeks before they his Justice Department went after Trump. After NARA went after Trump for retention of documents, Biden's attorneys started searching his offices. But the reality is that "Biden did it, too" is not a great legal defense. Works great for 10 year olds. Edited February 20 by Danderman123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: It alleges, yet you state it as fact. You don't believe that Trump obstructed the investigation? How strongly do you believe that? Are you 100% sure Trump is innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: What's your point in mischaracterizing the Espionage Act? How have I mischaracterized the Espionage Act? I do not believe I have even mentioned it. 4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: You don't care if anyone answers your questions, you just keep on trolling. You never seem to answer questions, you just keep regurgitating he same nonsense over and over. 4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: Your questions are not in good faith. Why, because you have no answers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Danderman123 said: You don't believe that Trump obstructed the investigation? How strongly do you believe that? Are you 100% sure Trump is innocent? On the documents, I do not think Trump is any more guilty than Biden, and that he is much less guilty than Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: How have I mischaracterized the Espionage Act? I do not believe I have even mentioned it. Because you don't understand the difference between cooperating with the authorities to return classified documents vs obstructing the authorities, this will always be a mystery to you. It's not a legal quandary, its a cognitive error on your part. I could walk you through the steps of how Trump violated the Espionage Act, and then post Special Counsel's explanation of why Biden wasn't charged, but you would forget it within 24 hours. Edited February 20 by Danderman123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: On the documents, I do not think Trump is any more guilty than Biden, and that he is much less guilty than Hillary. Great. You can start your own topic about Hillary's emails. This conversation is about Trump's multiple violations of the Espionage Act. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: On the documents, I do not think Trump is any more guilty than Biden, and that he is much less guilty than Hillary. Biden and Pence are certainly not guilty of obstruction, which is Trump's main issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 hours ago, BobBKK said: It does seem stupid and I don't know his reasoning - to what purpose? I think "fight to keep" is OTT. He was probably too busy and just didn't pay much attention to his staff storing them - Do you really believe that? Trump was too busy to return the classified documents? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 49 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: It alleges, yet you state it as fact. Considering the attention that the trial will receive, I seriously doubt that any charges were made that can't be substantiated. Trump is sure also. That's why he is using every trick his lawyers can come up with to delay the trials. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prubangboy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) On 1/24/2024 at 1:30 PM, JonnyF said: Trump could be half as popular as he thinks he is and still win by a mile. I was snarfing at the 90 or so losers to whom he deigned to pop out of Mara Lago wearing his funny red hat and give a quick wave to today.That's right, 90 people. How many Trump voters live within 20 miles of Mara Lago? Millions. I guess they were busy. I guess they're always busy. https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-basks-as-fans-chant-keep-fighting-wave-trump-won-flag-outside-mar-a-lago-amid-jaw-dropping-court-losses/ Edited February 20 by Prubangboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 41 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: So, it's you're position that Biden just "found" the documents? That's hilarious. This issue is not a lack of understanding, it's that most non-leftists (and non-data-driven-centrists) do not believe it. For example, I don't believe that Biden had the documents for years illegally, and just happened to "find" them a few weeks before they his Justice Department went after Trump. Hey, wasn't Biden bragging about the classified documents he had to his ghost-writer back in 2017? If so, why did he not give them back then? Is it your position that the documents were not found? That's ridiculous. You know nothing about working with classified, yet you seem to think you're an expert. How do you know that the documents Biden was talking about weren't returned? Regarding Trump, I take it it is your position that Trump....I'm not sure what you're thinking. Why do you think Trump had those documents and fought returning them? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 47 minutes ago, heybruce said: Is it your position that the documents were not found? That's ridiculous. You know nothing about working with classified, yet you seem to think you're an expert. How do you know that the documents Biden was talking about weren't returned? Regarding Trump, I take it it is your position that Trump....I'm not sure what you're thinking. Why do you think Trump had those documents and fought returning them? It's hopeless providing facts to @Yellowtail. He seems to be wilfully clueless. Even when confronted with irrefutable facts, he develops Trumpheimers disease, and forgets within 24 hours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipalongcassidy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 15 hours ago, heybruce said: As has been explained to you repeatedly, finding classified in an insecure location and following proper procedures to return them is not illegal. Keeping them is. There is where you are wrong... repeatedly... having them in the first place and forgetting is in direct opposition to the oath that you swore to protect them... that is the FIRST crime. Keeping them is in addition to the first crime... getting caught and returning them doesn't negate the fact that the first crime was committed... why is that so difficult for joe's boys to understand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipalongcassidy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 hours ago, Danderman123 said: Classified Documents Get Misplaced All the Time. A Former National Archives Official Explains Why That doesn't say anywhere that there was not a crime committed... when you get a security clearance you swear an oath to NOT misplace... forget... keep... reveal classified documents... if you do it is criminal. As long as you don't know the facts, why expose yourself by posting? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Money Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 1/26/2024 at 11:25 PM, placeholder said: Got any actual evidence to back that up? Now I know you’re a scientist. Between this post and your posting on Greenland Congratulations on achieving a higher and a more prestigious education than most. You’ve made your parents proud. However, it doesn’t take rocket science to explain the phenomena that scientists have not been able figure out since the beginning of mankind. Common Sense! Something I heard years ago still holds true today. The world is full of educated idiots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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