Danderman123 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Trump told rallygoers to vote in the primary on November 27. The primary is in February. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 30 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: You seem determined to prove you don't know anything about DOJ procedures for classified documents. Anyway, the post you replied to was explaining that Senators can legally take documents home after their term is over, unlike Presidents and VPs. So, Biden probably took many boxes away from his Senate office. That's hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 36 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: That's hilarious What is hilarious is Trump is eventually going to jail for stealing classified documents. By then, you will have a new Leader to post about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 hours ago, Yellowtail said: Are there any circumstances when I might be allowed to take classified documents home with me? No. Classified material must be safeguarded in accordance with the requirements in E.O. 13526, Part 4, Safeguarding; and 32 CFR 2001, Subpart E, Safeguarding. You must not remove classified material from official premises except to conduct official meetings or conferences, and the material must be returned to safe storage facilities immediately upon the conclusion of the meeting or conference. Residences are not considered official premises, and you must not remove classified material for reasons of personal convenience or keep it overnight in personal custody. National Archives | That makes Trump look really bad, doesn't it? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipalongcassidy Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 14 hours ago, heybruce said: How many times have you had the Espionage Act put in front of you so you could read the part in paragraph e about willfully retaining classified? https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793 You can lead the clueless to knowledge but you can't make them learn. Now that you mention leading the clueless... so joe gets a pass because he is so stupid to not know what he was doing with classified documents... which is a greater threat to security... not knowing or knowing. PS... if joe truly did not know then he should not be fit to be given clearance to have classified documents to begin with. When given a security clearance one must swear an oath to protect classified documents according to the law... no excuses for forgetting that you have them. Edited February 18 by Skipalongcassidy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipalongcassidy Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 10 hours ago, Danderman123 said: The criminal element is when someone declines to return classified documents. So you make the laws up now... what you say just is NOT true... the "criminal element" is taking the documents in the first place. According to you... if I rob a bank... get caught... but return the money... no crime was committed. Edited February 18 by Skipalongcassidy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said: Now that you mention leading the clueless... so joe gets a pass because he is so stupid to not know what he was doing with classified documents... which is a greater threat to security... not knowing or knowing. PS... if joe truly did not know then he should not be fit to be given clearance to have classified documents to begin with. When given a security clearance one must swear an oath to protect classified documents according to the law... no excuses for forgetting that you have them. Do you realize that everything that you post makes Trump look worse? Biden's staff were responsible for securing the classified, as were Trump's and Pence's. The staff botched the job, and it's disturbing that no mention is made of consequences for them. However when classified was found in the Biden residence the proper procedures were followed. Proper procedures were ignored and resisted by Trump. Anyone outside of the "Trump can do no wrong" camp understands this. Clearly you don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said: So you make the laws up now... what you say just is NOT true... the "criminal element" is taking the documents in the first place. According to you... if I rob a bank... get caught... but return the money... no crime was committed. Wow! You accuse others of making up the law? You have been given a link to the applicable law and directed to the paragraph that applies. Yet yo continue to state your imagined interpretation of the law with no reference to the actual law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 19 minutes ago, heybruce said: Do you realize that everything that you post makes Trump look worse? Biden's staff were responsible for securing the classified, as were Trump's and Pence's. The staff botched the job, and it's disturbing that no mention is made of consequences for them. However when classified was found in the Biden residence the proper procedures were followed. Proper procedures were ignored and resisted by Trump. Anyone outside of the "Trump can do no wrong" camp understands this. Clearly you don't. So why have Biden's staff not been identified and been taken to task for their apparent incompetence? And why are staff allowed access to classified documents anyway? It has to be at least as wrong for Biden as it was for Trump. Why do Trump's staff have to take plea deals, while Biden's staff are (apparently) given a pass, and not even named in the press. Edited February 19 by Yellowtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, Yellowtail said: So why have Biden's staff not been identifies and taken to task for their apparent incompetence? Ans why are staff allowed access to classified documents anyway? It has to be at least as wrong for Biden and it was for Trump. Are Trump's staff have to take plea deals, while Biden's staff are (apparently) not even named in the press. You haven't a clue about what it's like to work with classified, do you? The documents found on Biden properties were handled correctly. The ones found on Trump's property were not. How can I explain it any more clearly? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 11 minutes ago, heybruce said: You haven't a clue about what it's like to work with classified, do you? The documents found on Biden properties were handled correctly. The ones found on Trump's property were not. How can I explain it any more clearly? You haven't explained, you've just regurgitated someone else's lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Yellowtail said: So why have Biden's staff not been identified and been taken to task for their apparent incompetence? And why are staff allowed access to classified documents anyway? It has to be at least as wrong for Biden as it was for Trump. Why do Trump's staff have to take plea deals, while Biden's staff are (apparently) given a pass, and not even named in the press. As you perfectly know, Trump's staff had to take plea deal, because they helped hiding documents and/ or lied to the FBI about the hidden document! Stop trolling! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 58 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: You haven't explained, you've just regurgitated someone else's lie. What are you confused about? Do you think it is unusual for high level people who routinely work with classified to have staff with clearances that help them with this work? Do you think it's acceptable for people who have been found with unauthorized classified to try to keep it? If not these things, then what? What exactly do you not understand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 9 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said: Now that you mention leading the clueless... so joe gets a pass because he is so stupid to not know what he was doing with classified documents... which is a greater threat to security... not knowing or knowing. PS... if joe truly did not know then he should not be fit to be given clearance to have classified documents to begin with. When given a security clearance one must swear an oath to protect classified documents according to the law... no excuses for forgetting that you have them. You've been told many times and you still go on like a broken record. Trump hid documents and lied about it it. If he had just given them all back, when he was asked to do it, there would be no trial. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 5 minutes ago, heybruce said: What are you confused about? I am not confused. You are making stuff up. 5 minutes ago, heybruce said: Do you think it is unusual for high level people who routinely work with classified to have staff with clearances that help them with this work? Do you think it's acceptable for people who have been found with unauthorized classified to try to keep it? If not these things, then what? What exactly do you not understand? Do you believe Biden and or his staff removed and retained the documents legally or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 minutes ago, candide said: You've been told many times and you still go on like a broken record. Trump hid documents and lied about it it. If he had just given them all back, when he was asked to do it, there would be no trial. So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? No. My position is that it is unlikely to be trialed for just that. If Trump had given the documents back as requested, the NARA would likely have let it go. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Yellowtail said: I am not confused. You are making stuff up. Do you believe Biden and or his staff removed and retained the documents legally or not? Removed legally as part of the job he had at the time, yes. Retained long after they were needed, no. But that was probably an oversight by his staff and the documents were returned ASAP after they were discovered. Let's pause to make sure you understand. Are you unclear on the meaning of either of the above statements? Regarding my making stuff up; that's total BS, you can't identify anything I made up, and I ask the moderators to take note of it. Now, do you think it was acceptable for Trump to knowingly keep classified he had no right to and instruct his lawyers to lie about it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 13 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said: Now that you mention leading the clueless... so joe gets a pass because he is so stupid to not know what he was doing with classified documents... which is a greater threat to security... not knowing or knowing. PS... if joe truly did not know then he should not be fit to be given clearance to have classified documents to begin with. When given a security clearance one must swear an oath to protect classified documents according to the law... no excuses for forgetting that you have them. However bad you judge Biden's behavior regarding classified documents, how much worse was Trump's? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 hours ago, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? Retention of classified documents is illegal. The question is what is done when the documents are discovered. Do you disagree? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: Retention of classified documents is illegal. The question is what is done when the documents are discovered. Do you disagree? Don't expect an answer, expect a dodge. That's what happens when Trump supporters are presented with irrefutably criminal or traitorous behavior by Trump. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, Yellowtail said: I am not confused. You are making stuff up. Do you believe Biden and or his staff removed and retained the documents legally or not? Biden clearly removed the documents legally. Some of the documents were his handwritten notes, which he believed he could retain. The remainder of the documents were few. None of Biden's documents were highly classified. Biden returned the documents when his staff found them. Trump retained large numbers of documents, some highly classified SCIF documents, and refused to return many of them, even after receiving a subpoena. To the extent that you can't see the difference between the cases, the problem is you. Most people understand the situation. Edited February 19 by Danderman123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, heybruce said: Removed legally as part of the job he had at the time, yes. Do you have anything that supports that it was legal to remove boxes of documents and store them at home? 2 hours ago, heybruce said: Retained long after they were needed, no. But that was probably an oversight by his staff and the documents were returned ASAP after they were discovered. 15 years after they were removed, and coincidentally right before they went after Trump. And why have his staff not been taken to task? 2 hours ago, heybruce said: Let's pause to make sure you understand. Are you unclear on the meaning of either of the above statements? Yes. I am unclear on how it was legal for Biden to remove the documents, and do you have anything that supports that? I am also unclear how giving documents back erases the crime. 2 hours ago, heybruce said: Regarding my making stuff up; that's total BS, you can't identify anything I made up, and I ask the moderators to take note of it. I think you are making up the part about Biden removing and taking home documents being legal. 2 hours ago, heybruce said: Now, do you think it was acceptable for Trump to knowingly keep classified he had no right to and instruct his lawyers to lie about it? I think it is almost never acceptable to instruct anyone to lie. Edited February 19 by Yellowtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Danderman123 said: Biden clearly removed the documents legally. Wrong 1 hour ago, Danderman123 said: Some of the documents were his handwritten notes, which he believed he could retain. The remainder of the documents were few. None of Biden's documents were highly classified. Biden returned the documents when his staff found them. After years of storing them haphazardly. 1 hour ago, Danderman123 said: Trump retained large numbers of documents, some highly classified SCIF documents, and refused to return many of them, even after receiving a subpoena. So? 1 hour ago, Danderman123 said: To the extent that you can't see the difference between the cases, the problem is you. Most people understand the situation. Most leftists see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: Do you have anything that supports that it was legal to remove boxes of documents and store them at home? 15 years after they were removed, and coincidentally right before they went after Trump. And why have his staff not been taken to task? Yes. I am unclear on how it was legal for Biden to remove the documents, and do you have anything that supports that? I am also unclear how giving documents back erases the crime. I think you are making up the part about Biden removing and taking home documents being legal. I think it is almost never acceptable to instruct anyone to lie. Out of curiosity, does all that apply to Pence too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Out of curiosity, does all that apply to Pence too? Absolutely. Hillary as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 37 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: Do you have anything that supports that it was legal to remove boxes of documents and store them at home? 15 years after they were removed, and coincidentally right before they went after Trump. And why have his staff not been taken to task? Yes. I am unclear on how it was legal for Biden to remove the documents, and do you have anything that supports that? I am also unclear how giving documents back erases the crime. I think you are making up the part about Biden removing and taking home documents being legal. I think it is almost never acceptable to instruct anyone to lie. This is quite an interesting debate, but it is obscuring the real issue (I know, that was the objective) The reason Trump is on trial and Biden or Pence are not, is that he refused to give all documents back when asked to, hid some, and lied about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 minutes ago, candide said: This is quite an interesting debate, but it is obscuring the real issue (I know, that was the objective) The reason Trump is on trial and Biden or Pence are not, is that he refused to give all documents back when asked to, hid some, and lied about it. So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: So, it is legal to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? As I wrote in my post it's irrelevant. The relevant question is: for which reason dud Trump got trialed and not Pence or Biden? Trump got trialed because he refused to give documents back, hid documents, and lied about it. The NARA waited one year to contact the DOJ, and only did so because they had some clues Trump did not give back all documents. Edited February 19 by candide 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, candide said: As I wrote in my post it's irrelevant. The relevant question is: for which reason dud Trump got trialed and not Pence or Biden? Trump got trialed because he refused to give documents back, hid documents, and lied about it. The NARA waited one year to contact the DOJ, and only did so because they had some clues Trump did not give back all documents. So, it is legal okay to remove and retain classified documents for years, as long as when you're found out, or likely to be found out you give them back. Is that your position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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