Tax on Pensions

[rogerpattaya]

I know it's a long way off but I thought I would be proactive and go into the Revenue Department Chonburi and ask some questions about getting a TIN (tax identification number).

It was very quiet there on a Friday morning, took a queue number and waited only 5 minutes to be called, good so far.

First problem, none of the people on the counter spoke ANY English, but with a bit of mime and showing my Resident Certificate that was issued for the purpose of obtaining a Tax ID, I got an application form in Thai.

I had read on line that this form was available in English, not so at Chonburi, only Thai,

I did confirm that you need copy of Passport ID page and current Visa stamp as well as the Certificate of Residence to obtain the Tax ID number for Personal Income Tax (PIT).

 

Every one was friendly enough, just not very helpful because of the language problem, not their fault, it's their country,

I wanted to ask a number of questions but I will have to go back with an interpreter for that,

 

Has anybody got any better information that might help? 

[DaLa]

My advice would have been to NOT get a TIN.  

[Dmaxdan]

This is just my opinion.

I would hold fire on getting a Thai tax ID number until you've been here 180 days (or whatever it is) starting from January 1st 2024.  In theory, that is when you, become a Thai tax resident.....

You don't want to put yourself in the Thai taxation system if there ends up being no need.

Who knows what is going to happen over the next few months bearing in mind it has been reported in the Thai Enquirer that these new amendments are going to be contested. 

Even there is only 1% chance that things will change again it is worth hanging on until the second half of the year just to see how everything unfolds.

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, rogerpattaya said:

Has anybody got any better information that might help? 

 

Yes

 

I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.

 

P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor, colour coded tying them up with the deposits to my bank printout matching colour coded.

 

All as easy as pie.

 

Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.

 

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

 

What Chonburi RD Office might do I have no idea, but I would echo @DaLa and do nothing until further information is forthcoming.

[treetops]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I went to my local RD office this morning . . . .

 

Location please?

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, treetops said:

 

Location please?

 

Pak Chong.

[beautifulthailand99]

Could you not use Google translate where you both talk into the phone clearly and slowly it's pretty good these days.

[MartinL]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Yes

 

I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.

 

P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor ... 

 

I like that description of a wife and it caused a big smile. I've read enough of your posts to know you make very few spelling mistakes so it's clearly intentional and quite humourous.

[noobexpat]

12 minutes ago, MartinL said:

 

I like that description of a wife and it caused a big smile. I've read enough of your posts to know you make very few spelling mistakes so it's clearly intentional and quite humourous.

 

Also a great piece of fiction. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, rogerpattaya said:

Has anybody got any better information that might help?

Best action is always to do nothing until the police come to arrest you, then plead ignorance.

Let's face it even if you 'cannot tell a lie', first tax declaration is maybe required in Jan 2025, and then they wouldn't know you were resident until you next extension application (in my case October 2025).

 

I deliberately don't update my bank book except on the day of my VISA extension, so they can't see what money I bring into Thailand, bank book 1 or 2 entries, bank statement 6 months maximum. 

Edited January 26 by BritManToo

[JackGats]

2 hours ago, DaLa said:

My advice would have been to NOT get a TIN.  

Many with accounts outside Thailand need a Thai TIN as required by the  banks back home.

 

Advice like "don't get a TIN, don't stay more than 6 months" etc. is useless for those among us (the majority?) who need Thailand as an offshore tax residence.

[jayboy]

Slightly off topic bit I've been wondering about the 13 digit numbers on the TINs.Somewhere I've seen a useful breakdown of how these numbers are allocated for foreigners - but I can't track it down.Can any one help?

[noobexpat]

4 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Many with accounts outside Thailand need a Thai TIN as required by the  banks back home.

 

Advice like "don't get a TIN, don't stay more than 6 months" etc. is useless for those among us (the majority?) who need Thailand as an offshore tax residence.

 

I assume you can get a TIN without filing a tax return ??

But i guess you are putting yourself on a possible radar.

[norbra]

First time ever ,Jan 5 2024 ,

I received a tax statement from Kasikorn Bank.

It only showed dividend income from Thai share holdings.

Kasikorn has been receiving my monthly 65k international deposits for 7 years now but no mention on tax statement.

[Mike Lister]

20 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

I assume you can get a TIN without filing a tax return ??

But i guess you are putting yourself on a possible radar.

Yes you can.

 

No you are not, many people need a Thai TIN because their home country bank requested one.

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

This is just my opinion.

I would hold fire on getting a Thai tax ID number until you've been here 180 days (or whatever it is) starting from January 1st 2024.  In theory, that is when you, become a Thai tax resident.....

You don't want to put yourself in the Thai taxation system if there ends up being no need.

Who knows what is going to happen over the next few months bearing in mind it has been reported in the Thai Enquirer that these new amendments are going to be contested. 

Even there is only 1% chance that things will change again it is worth hanging on until the second half of the year just to see how everything unfolds.

Just one teeny weeny bit of tax law for you to ignore or digest:

 

When to Apply for  TIN (Tax Identification Number)

 

"Within 60 days from the date he derives assessable income".

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/21987.html

[CharlieH]

Nothing to do with the Visa forum.

 

MOVED 

[Dmaxdan]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

 

"Within 60 days from the date he derives assessable income"

Please excuse my ignorance but I don't fully understand what this means.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Dmaxdan said:

Please excuse my ignorance but I don't fully understand what this means.

No problem....have you read the link below?

 

Assessible income is money that is received that is not exempt from tax for any one of a number of reasons and is eligible to be assessed for tax, even though it may not ultimately be taxable. So if you receive money that you know to be the subject of a tax return in Thailand, you have 60 days from when you reach the minimum threshold, to obtain a TIN. 

 

 

[DaLa]

20 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes you can.

 

No you are not, many people need a Thai TIN because their home country bank requested one.

I have 6 bank accounts in the UK, only one of them 'pestered' me for a Thai TIN, and when I say pestered I mean the 'request' came with a strongly worded 'ignore this OFFICIAL request at your peril, doing so will have dire consequences including several years of punitive hard labour possibly in a North Korean prison.'

 

I can't write my response here due to aseannow rules , however the essence was 'No I don't have a TIN, I don't need one..go away'.  That was at least a year ago....and they respected my answer.

 

I maintain my initial advice on this subject. 

[JimGant]

On 1/26/2024 at 12:27 PM, The Cyclist said:

Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.

 

Why did you think you might have to?  Assessable income over 120,000 baht? And what was their reason for saying you didn't have to file a return? Thanx.

[Mike Lister]

On 1/26/2024 at 5:08 PM, Mike Lister said:

No problem....have you read the link below?

 

Assessible income is money that is received that is not exempt from tax for any one of a number of reasons and is eligible to be assessed for tax, even though it may not ultimately be taxable. So if you receive money that you know to be the subject of a tax return in Thailand, you have 60 days from when you reach the minimum threshold, to obtain a TIN. 

 

 

@Dmaxdan are you a bit clearer with this? If not, feel free to ask or to PM me if questions.

[The Cyclist]

13 hours ago, JimGant said:

Why did you think you might have to?

 

I didn't, but it was no skin off my nose to go and find out

 

13 hours ago, JimGant said:

Assessable income over 120,000 baht?

 

Therein lies the rub. What constitutes assessable income.

 

To my way of thinkingI

 

Government Pension, covered by DTA and not assessable income.

 

Private Pension, not covered by a DTA and might be considered assessable income.

 

13 hours ago, JimGant said:

And what was their reason for saying you didn't have to file a return?

 

They didn't give one, to the best of my knowledge.

 

As a side note.

 

I only went as I was fairly certain that my 2 UK pensions, both taxed in the UK would not be subject to further taxation in Thailand.

 

What I did not know, was if I was required, as a tax resident of Thailand to file anything.

 

For 2023, according to my local RD Office the answer is no.

 

I also now have an A4 envelope, containing  all the paperwork for filing a 2023 tax return, should any issues arise in the future.

 

For me, it was a base covering exercise. I was pretty certain of the outcome before I left the house and headed over there.

[The Cyclist]

On 1/26/2024 at 1:34 PM, MartinL said:

 

I like that description of a wife and it caused a big smile. I've read enough of your posts to know you make very few spelling mistakes so it's clearly intentional and quite humourous.

 

Very intentional 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I didn't, but it was no skin off my nose to go and find out

 

 

Therein lies the rub. What constitutes assessable income.

 

To my way of thinkingI

 

Government Pension, covered by DTA and not assessable income.

 

Private Pension, not covered by a DTA and might be considered assessable income.

 

 

They didn't give one, to the best of my knowledge.

 

As a side note.

 

I only went as I was fairly certain that my 2 UK pensions, both taxed in the UK would not be subject to further taxation in Thailand.

 

What I did not know, was if I was required, as a tax resident of Thailand to file anything.

 

For 2023, according to my local RD Office the answer is no.

 

I also now have an A4 envelope, containing  all the paperwork for filing a 2023 tax return, should any issues arise in the future.

 

For me, it was a base covering exercise. I was pretty certain of the outcome before I left the house and headed over there.

 

Was your income from your "Private Pension, not covered by a DTA and might be considered assessable income", in excess of the 120,000 baht threshold? I'm sure @JimGant will  want to know that answer also.

[Mutt Daeng]

16 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

20 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I didn't, but it was no skin off my nose to go and find out

 

 

Therein lies the rub. What constitutes assessable income.

 

To my way of thinkingI

 

Government Pension, covered by DTA and not assessable income.

 

Private Pension, not covered by a DTA and might be considered assessable income.

 

 

They didn't give one, to the best of my knowledge.

 

As a side note.

 

I only went as I was fairly certain that my 2 UK pensions, both taxed in the UK would not be subject to further taxation in Thailand.

 

What I did not know, was if I was required, as a tax resident of Thailand to file anything.

 

For 2023, according to my local RD Office the answer is no.

 

I also now have an A4 envelope, containing  all the paperwork for filing a 2023 tax return, should any issues arise in the future.

 

For me, it was a base covering exercise. I was pretty certain of the outcome before I left the house and headed over there.

Expand  

 

Was your income from your "Private Pension, not covered by a DTA and might be considered assessable income", in excess of the 120,000 baht threshold? I'm sure @JimGant will  want to know that answer also.

I would be interested in the answer to that as well.

[The Cyclist]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

Was your income from your "Private Pension, not covered by a DTA and might be considered assessable income", in excess of the 120,000 baht threshold? I'm sure @JimGant will  want to know that answer also.

 

I cannot answer that question, as it will be deemed

 

* Not pertinent to the thread

 

* Off Topic

 

* Argumentative.

 

I'm sure @JimGant has seen the figures, they were posted in the 200 page long thread.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I cannot answer that question, as it will be deemed

 

* Not pertinent to the thread

 

* Off Topic

 

* Argumentative.

 

I'm sure @JimGant has seen the figures, they were posted in the 200 page long thread.

Try hard, for all the other posters who need to understand.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Try hard, for all the other posters who need to understand.

 

Do you really think I would have driven to the RD Office, asking questions about a sum of money that falls below the Thai Tax threshold ?
 

Which is now a moot point as it is now banked in the UK until the RD extract their finger and issue further questions.

 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Do you really think I would have driven to the RD Office, asking questions about a sum of money that falls below the Thai Tax threshold ?
 

Which is now a moot point as it is now banked in the UK until the RD extract their finger and issue further questions.

 

Nothing you do would surprise me.

 

To summarize, your assessable income was over 120k but because filing would have resulted in a nill return, you were told not to file, is that correct?