Do they check paperwork? (TEFL accreditation, bachelor's degree)

[JeffersLos]

Degrees are checked by the authorities before they grant a work permit. Fake degrees, a copy of a real degree from a real university, or life degrees, a piece of paper from a made up university are found out at that point.

 

There is a database they use that at the first step, if the university isn't on it, it doesn't get any further. If it is, they check the transcripts.

 

Submitting a Life Degree is useless, submitting a fake degree from a real university is presumably illegal and fraudulent. 

 

It was different before apparently, but then there were just too many cases of teachers being arrested for other crimes and it being made public that the schools had hired them with fake degrees, so everything got tightened up. 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

never asked me and never had an issue renewing

Quite possibly because you've been grandfathered, having had a licence for a long time.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, JeffersLos said:

Degrees are checked by the authorities before they grant a work permit. Fake degrees, a copy of a real degree from a real university, or life degrees, a piece of paper from a made up university are found out at that point.

 

There is a database they use that at the first step, if the university isn't on it, it doesn't get any further. If it is, they check the transcripts.

 

Submitting a Life Degree is useless, submitting a fake degree from a real university is presumably illegal and fraudulent. 

 

It was different before apparently, but then there were just too many cases of teachers being arrested for other crimes and it being made public that the schools had hired them with fake degrees, so everything got tightened up. 

Degrees are scrutinised by TCT prior to a licence or waiver being issued. That is at the stage prior to visiting labour dept for a work permit. The labour dept, upon receipt of authorisation from TCT, will take it as read the degree is legitimate 

 

You are right about years gone by. Prior to the need for authorisation from TCT, degrees and their authenticity were rarely checked.

[JeffersLos]

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Degrees are scrutinised by TCT prior to a licence or waiver being issued. That is at the stage prior to visiting labour dept for a work permit. The labour dept, upon receipt of authorisation from TCT, will take it as read the degree is legitimate 

 

You are right about years gone by. Prior to the need for authorisation from TCT, degrees and their authenticity were rarely checked.

 

So it is the TCT that check them, then.

 

People say that language centers can get around it, maybe they don't need a teaching license or waiver?

 

In which case who checks them, the labor department when a WP is applied for? 

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

 

So it is the TCT that check them, then.

 

People say that language centers can get around it, maybe they don't need a teaching license or waiver?

 

In which case who checks them, the labor department when a WP is applied for? 

Universities and language centres don't need authorisation from TCT.

 

Those without degrees or with fake degrees will teach in these places as they know, generally, no checks are made.

 

I was teaching in Thai government schools prior to the creation of TCT. Extensions of stay and work permits issued immediately. No checks made.

[JeffersLos]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Those without degrees or with fake degrees will teach in these places as they know, generally, no checks are made.

 

I was teaching in Thai government schools prior to the creation of TCT. Extensions of stay and work permits issued immediately. No checks made.

 

And do they need to submit a fake or life degree when applying for a Work Permit to work in a university or language center that the labor dept. will see, or they don't even need to submit one? 

[youreavinalaff]

23 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

 

And do they need to submit a fake or life degree when applying for a Work Permit to work in a university or language center that the labor dept. will see, or they don't even need to submit one? 

A degree of some kind will usually be required, certainly for working at a University.

 

Remember, when saying "University" we are generally talking lower end. Radjapat for example. Top end universities will do their own due diligence.

 

It's not unheard of that language centres will provide the fake degree yo get the teacher a work permit.

 

Outside of TCT, many checks made will usually check the accreditation of the University, rather than the authenticity of the degree or the degree holder.

 

 

[KhaoNiaw]

33 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

 

And do they need to submit a fake or life degree when applying for a Work Permit to work in a university or language center that the labor dept. will see, or they don't even need to submit one? 

 

Universities send documents to OHEC for approval.

[JeffersLos]

3 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

 

Universities send documents to OHEC for approval.

 

That's the kind of thing that I expected, that nowadays all applications for legal work are sent to Bangkok offices that check all the documents, before returning them to the school with a pass or not pass notification. That the day and age of schools and local offices glancing over the paper work before easily stamping a work permit are long gone. 

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

 

That's the kind of thing that I expected, that nowadays all applications for legal work are sent to Bangkok offices that check all the documents, before returning them to the school with a pass or not pass notification. That the day and age of schools and local offices glancing over the paper work before easily stamping a work permit are long gone. 

It's not a requirement legally.

 

As I said, higher end Universities will carry out due diligence. Asking OHEC for help could be part of that.

 

It's not an issue, with regards to issuing visas, extensions orcwork permits, if they don't. Hence, many don't bother, especially if they are in a hurry to recruit.

[bigt3116]

12 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

 

Universities send documents to OHEC for approval.

 

No they don't

[brewsterbudgen]

17 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

 

So it is the TCT that check them, then.

 

People say that language centers can get around it, maybe they don't need a teaching license or waiver?

 

In which case who checks them, the labor department when a WP is applied for? 

I've been working in language schools in Bangkok since 2005.  All our teachers need legalised degree certificates for their work permit and extension.  Despite it being more relevant for the job than a degree, a TEFL qualification is not required by the Thai authorities, although as employers we don't employ teachers without a decent one (CELTA) or experience.

 

[TeacherJane]

20 hours ago, Adumbration said:

 

Depends on the individual I would think.

 

Lots of qualified Teachers working here that are screaming alcoholics, drug addicts and kiddie fiddlers.

Yes, teachers have a complex that they are undervalued. I could argue we are overvalued. It isn't a difficult job, how hard is it to edutain kindergarterners. Its a matter of the teacher as to their worth.

[TeacherJane]

19 hours ago, cdemundo said:

"Strangely, I think you'll find that run around is limited to degrees from USA. "

 

It was a bit frustrating as I was aware as others have stated that methods of electronic checking exist, but no one was asking for my input on the topic.

 

I guess fake degrees are a real problem.

From current Bangkok Craigslist/jobs/education :

"Teachers wanting or needing degrees

If you need these for any reason contact me"

 

So apparently fakes are still for sale.

 

Fakes are indeed readily available. But who exactly checks them, and how rigorously?

[KhaoNiaw]

5 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

 

No they don't

Beg to differ. 

[recom273]

4 minutes ago, TeacherJane said:

Fakes are indeed readily available. But who exactly checks them, and how rigorously?

 

I think you have the answer here.

 

I was a non-degree teacher for some time, I knew many others in the same situation and the problem wasn't getting a job, it wasn't the authenticity of a degree, the provincial labour office were never a problem, I even had a work permits. The issue was with immigration who wouldn't issue the one year extension without the collection of correct paperwork from various sources. The system used to be self policing, without a visa, how can you stay?

 

 

[JeffersLos]

Conflicting information.

 

That supplying a degree isn't a legal requirement for teachers being employed in language centers.

 

12 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

It's not a requirement legally.

 

To.

 

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I've been working in language schools in Bangkok since 2005.  All our teachers need legalised degree certificates for their work permit and extension. 

 

They all need legal degrees for their work permits and visa extensions. 

[brewsterbudgen]

34 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

Conflicting information.

 

That supplying a degree isn't a legal requirement for teachers being employed in language centers.

 

 

To.

 

 

They all need legal degrees for their work permits and visa extensions. 

Having a legalised degree is required for the work permit and extension wherever you teach.  Of course, some teachers manage to work without one  ("classroom assistants" rather than teachers) and some just work illegally.  The fact that it's a Language School/Centre/Institute makes no difference.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, JeffersLos said:

Conflicting information.

 

That supplying a degree isn't a legal requirement for teachers being employed in language centers.

 

 

To.

 

 

They all need legal degrees for their work permits and visa extensions. 

 

54 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Having a legalised degree is required for the work permit and extension wherever you teach.  Of course, some teachers manage to work without one  ("classroom assistants" rather than teachers) and some just work illegally.  The fact that it's a Language School/Centre/Institute makes no difference.

Language centres are not governed by OBEC. Neither are universities.

 

Teachers teaching in these places do not need permission from TCT.

 

This means the checks are not as stringent if done at all. I know guys working at low end universities with questionable degrees. They have work permits. That's possible as the checks are not as in depth or not done at all. They are deemed "legal" by employer, immigration and labour office.

 

My comment " it's not required legally" was in reference to OHEC checks. Some universities likely do check with them, others don't. It's not needed for visa,extension or work permit. 

 

As we all know, here in Thailand it's not the same everywhere. That's the conflicting info. I refer to "some" others seem to refer to "all".

 

 

[bigt3116]

17 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Beg to differ. 

 

17 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Beg to differ. 

 

A decade of teaching at a university would lead me to stick with the fact that qualifications are not checked by OHEC.

[JayClay]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:45 PM, cdemundo said:

Degrees are required in the process of getting a work permit as of 2023 (not starting 2023 just current status).

 

Do you have a link confirming this change?

 

As far as I was aware, no degree is required for a work permit. However, if you want to convert a tourist visa/visa exempt entry to a non B visa from within Thailand, then a fully legally verified copy of the degree is required.

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, JayClay said:

 

Do you have a link confirming this change?

 

As far as I was aware, no degree is required for a work permit. However, if you want to convert a tourist visa/visa exempt entry to a non B visa from within Thailand, then a fully legally verified copy of the degree is required.

You are correct, I was converting " a tourist visa/visa exempt entry to a non B visa from within Thailand", and "a fully legally verified copy of the degree is required."

 

In the process it was not always clear to me what was being required for the work permit and what was for the Non-B visa. The degree verification was done at the Bureau of Consular Affairs, so not the immigration bureau or the Ministry of Education.

 

Because of the documentation involved I began to call it a "consecrated copy" of my degree.

That was definitely the most onerous part of applying for needed documents for a teaching job.

 

In any case, I was just meeting the requirements off my employer, and obeying the instructions given by my employer and the government agencies. 

 

[youreavinalaff]

5 hours ago, cdemundo said:

You are correct, I was converting " a tourist visa/visa exempt entry to a non B visa from within Thailand", and "a fully legally verified copy of the degree is required."

 

In the process it was not always clear to me what was being required for the work permit and what was for the Non-B visa. The degree verification was done at the Bureau of Consular Affairs, so not the immigration bureau or the Ministry of Education.

 

Because of the documentation involved I began to call it a "consecrated copy" of my degree.

That was definitely the most onerous part of applying for needed documents for a teaching job.

 

In any case, I was just meeting the requirements off my employer, and obeying the instructions given by my employer and the government agencies. 

 

Correct.

 

Then, for extension purposes, your degree would have been verified by the TCT, if you were working for a school governed by OBEC. If not, it's likely it was not checked again.

 

Those arriving with a NonB, or going to a Consulate in a neighbouring country don't need to go through what you did with MFA. 

[DavisH]

On 1/28/2024 at 4:30 PM, youreavinalaff said:

Then you'll know the TCT often ask for sealed transcripts.

That may be true for the intial application these days. I never did that way back in 2000 - they just wanted original copies. All of my extensions have been based on photocopies of my degrees and transcripts. 

[youreavinalaff]

49 minutes ago, DavisH said:

That may be true for the intial application these days. I never did that way back in 2000 - they just wanted original copies. All of my extensions have been based on photocopies of my degrees and transcripts. 

Correct.

 

Only recently, about 8 years or so ago. Usually for initial application only.

[KhaoNiaw]

On 1/30/2024 at 4:45 AM, bigt3116 said:

 

 

A decade of teaching at a university would lead me to stick with the fact that qualifications are not checked by OHEC.

 

Nearly three decades for me. Every second year, there's a contract renewal and with the snail speed our personnel department works at, there's often a last-minute rush to get the document package over to OHEC for approval and returned for the renewal process. In years when everything has been prepared well enough in advance, I will never hear anything about it. I have no idea if they carry out any serious checks but the renewal can't proceed without this.