Scottish woman’s cliff plunge in Thailand sparks insurance debacle

[champers]

6 minutes ago, tandor said:

wouldn't you think they would use AI to proof read before posting.

I'm guessing the article was written by a chatbot.

[kwilco]

This has been covered many times before.

Firstly insurance cover needs to be checked. Most companies will put a 125cc limit on machines rented.

Most rented bikes are between 100 and 160 cc so you need to be careful when renting.

Some companies don't cover motorbikes at all...they are regarded as "extreme" activities.

 

The idea of SCOOTER is a fallacy there is no such legal term anywhere. The bikes for rent are mostly step-thoughs, but they have 2 wheels and as such are motorbikes.

 

Thailand does not recognise any 2 wheeled vehicle as anything but a category A motorbike on the IDP under the Vienna treaty.

US has not ratified this treaty. Thailand has in 2020.

 

Without a valid IDP, insurance may be voided anyway.

To ride a motorcycle in Thailand you need an IDP and a FULL  motorcycle licence from home. Any "moped" "scooter" or provisional licence is not sufficient.

Before you leave home, get your IDP and make sure you have category A m/c on it...A1 is no good.

 

PS insurance in Thailand is unlikely to cover you after 3 months in the country... you need a Thai d/l by then

Edited February 5 by kwilco

[kwilco]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Obviously all policies vary....   but I think for the most part, people are not covered if they are not licensed (at home).

 

In this case I wonder if there was any 'Scooter vs Motorcycle' wording in the policy.

 

 

I have a current Travel Insurance Policy for an upcoming trip.... 

The Policy is 117 pages long...

 

The Policy is confusing.

It states I cannot ride a motorcycle without a home license.

It also states in a separate section, Scooter / Motorcycle  >> There's a Special Exclusion (V)... 

 

I can't find a Special Exclusion's section in the Policy... I cant see anything about size of engine that indicates scooter or motorcycle.

 

My takeaway of course is that I'm not insured at all to ride a Motorcycle in Thailand unless I have a home license.

 

(I do actually have a Thai Motorcycle license, but thats irrelevant, this insurance is for overseas and I wont be using a motorcycle).

 

 

My point here - is did the girl really believe she was insured to ride a 'scooter' in Thailand without a license ?

 

Is there any policy wording here that dictates this ?

 

Or did she rent a motorcycle / scooter without any consideration to insurance ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is no such thing as a "scooter" it is a colloquialism that doesn't exist in Thailand or international IDP.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Nordic summer said:

they could ride around on 50cc's

No they couldn't...they are classed as a motorcycle  with no special status...they would still need a full D/L and an IDP. Otherwise they could still be disqualified by any insurance

[WHansen]

2 hours ago, Nordic summer said:

That is odd, as my own intl driving license issued in Norway has an A1 coverage, A1 being up to 125cc for 16 yo's.

 

 

That literally means the majority of Brits(and who knows who else) are driving around practically uninsured while on holiday

I mean, they could ride around on 50cc's, but I think that's unlikely.

 

 

This is the reason i recently took my A2 licence in the UK so that i am legally covered to ride my Xmax 300 over here, even though my Thai licence is for any size bike.

Insurance companies are legalised thieves.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Nordic summer said:

That is odd, as my own intl driving license issued in Norway has an A1 coverage, A1 being up to 125cc for 16 yo's.

 

 

That literally means the majority of Brits(and who knows who else) are driving around practically uninsured while on holiday

I mean, they could ride around on 50cc's, but I think that's unlikely.

 

 

A1 coverage is specifically excluded by Thailand in the Vienna treaty....they only officially recognise category  A

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, Nordic summer said:

It's the biggest relieve to see the lady made it back home in one piece. I'm very happy about this.

It must have been her good karma that made it so that she met up with this other person during scuba class, who really seems to have been of great assistanse. Imagine going through all that alone in a foreign country. Kudos to her

And also this Doctor was an angel. Wish her lots of happiness.

 

I bet this accident happened on the way to the lighthouse located on the south tip of the island. It has lots of corner pluss up and downs and at relatively high elevation, with plenty of cliffs to fall off from.

When I was there in the shoulder season once, there were hardly any traffic there, so it kinda invites sporty driving(not that I suspects that was the case in this accident). The road is a little treacherous tho, as it is commonly soiled with debris and mud after windy rain,

I nearly went ass out myself when rear tire slipped out from under me once

 

I have been driving big bikes at home for years and while I am a quite confident driver, riding scooters in Thailand has been an humbling experience

Scooters do not have the same traction as a big bike(with adequate tires off course) and surprises comes from nowhere and everywhere. Also road being what they are down here.

I have therefore adapted a much more defensive riding style down here.

I scares me out of <deleted> to see some of the other tourists buzz along in singlet, caps and slippers, not to mention some of the locals(although Koh Lanta locals are quite considerate compared to BKK and CM)

 

When it comes to insurance, I choose a company located in my homeland. I wrote several of them describing where, what and how I planned to use scooters. 

What the big companies say, is that as long as you have a bike license(pluss international), wear a helmet and are sober, they cover any material or injury damage. That includes myself being a passenger on a moto taxi. This costs me about $60 a year.

It looks like the big bummer in this case was the size of the scooter, so I strongly advice everyone unlicensed to check out what limitations this put on your insurance before renting a scooter.

 

Hope the Scottish lady get back on her feets soon both physically and economically, and visit lanta again soon

Traction depends on the amount (and type) of rubber of rubber in contact with the surface of the road in relation to weight. 

All roads in Thailand have surfaces that are below par and on islands in particular they are left polluted by a light dusting of sand. This can bring any bike down regardless of size...especially if the front wheel loses adhesion..further design faults on Thai roads include adverse camber, poor drainage, bad markings and edges that are full of dangerous features that harm harm people once they have lost control...eg. trees or cliffs....barriers can save lives.

[madmitch]

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Seem's they're based in Ireland (+353 country dialling code)

 

Attached - the 117 page policy wording.

 

This is a policy I am carrying for an 11 day trip (coming up).

 

 

 

6.1) Travel Insurance Policy Wording.pdf 585.28 kB · 3 downloads

Thanks for uploading. I did not read it from cover to cover but take a look at the language; there is no legalese at all, in fact, on my opinin, it is over-simplistic and that is why it is so long. And that's what you should now expect in insurance policies for consumers. The client must be able to understand it.

 

NB Our American readers: your insurance policies are still years away from being consumer-friendly and I can't see any changes imminent. Your lawyers have to keep making money!

 

o

[fondue zoo]

19 hours ago, mikebell said:

I'll do it; I'm an ex-Head of English with 39 years of correcting hazy expression/grammatical/spelling errors + I am cheap.

 

ouou, the power of Mikes. Need that trifecta.

 

Mike Lister = Forum Numbers Guy   aka  "the Quant"

Mike Bell    = Forum Words Guy   aka  "the Corrector" 

 

 

Edited February 5 by fondue zoo

[Kerryd]

I knew there was something missing from the story.

"Upon learning of Hughes’ predicament, her friends and family quickly rallied together to support her. Kerry’s colleague and friend, Tammy Hudson, set up a JustGiving page".

Same idea as GoFundMe.

She arrived in Thailand on 9 Jan, planning on staying 1 month.

Accident was on 22 Jan (according to Glasgow Live which seems to be the originating media site). 
" I had large lacerations to my face needing sutures, horrendous back pain, a head injury with bleeding to the back of my head, broken nose that needed surgery and a wound in my left knee. I was unable to walk unaided but needed to get out of hospital"

"After finding out about the freak incident and realising that Kerry would not be making her flight home, friends and family rallied round.

The nurse's colleague and close pal, Tammy Hudson, organised a Just Giving to help cobble the cash together to get Kerry home and make a dent in the medical bills. More than £10,000 has been raised so far."
(About 450,000 baht.)

Uh huh. It's always "a friend" that sets up the fundraiser, isn't it ? 

And she apparently flew home - Business Class - on 30 Jan.
Which is odd as she was supposedly staying 4 weeks so would have flown home around 7 Feb, yet her friends and family "rallied round" when realising she wouldn't make her flight home (which would have been a week after she apparently did fly home). 
(Amazingly fast recovery !)

Pretty bad when Thaiger (based in Phuket) has to get it's "local" news from an online click-bait site in Scotland.
You'd think an accident on Koh Lanta that involved a foreigner (white woman at that) would have made the front page of every media site in/around Phuket. Yet when I do a search, all the results stem from that GlasgowLive site/story.

And wow - her "friend" was able to set up a fundraiser almost immediately after the accident and in less than 6 days had already collected more than £10,000 !
Especially considering they (supposedly) waited until after the Insurance company refused to cover her.
How did her insurance company even know what kind of "scooter" she had rented ? 
And !
"I was admitted to ICU for days then had an email from my insurance saying they rejected my claim due to the scooter I hired being classed as a motorbike."

So, accident on the 22nd. Treated on Koh Lanta and transferred to "the mainland". In the ICU "for days". Finds out that her insurance claim is denied. "Friend" sets up a fund-raiser. Apparently raises over £10,000 in less than 6 days. She recovers and flies home (business class) on the 30th.
(I'm guessing her "friend" must have brought a laptop into the ICU so the woman could check her emails.)


And shocker ! There's another story of another person who had a motorcycle accident and their insurance won't cover it ! And in that story, the accident happened on Koh Samui on 30 Jan but they've already set up a fundraiser and collected over $17,000 (US).
(Of the $35,000 US they are trying to get. About 1.25 million baht at today's rate.)

Apparently his travel insurance doesn't cover "motorcycle accidents" 
And shocker - the fundraiser was set up - by a friend ! 

And here's where it really shows.
"Bad compound fracture. A clean break of the tib and fib in his lower leg.”
Followed by:
"Following the accident, Kirk underwent emergency surgery to save his leg."
"Last week, doctors were scheduled to implant an internal fixation rod to stabilise the fractured bone. However, the surgery was postponed until today due to the discovery of sepsis in his lungs."

"Despite the necessity of the procedure for his safe return home, it is considered elective."
"He faces the daunting prospect of having to fly home in business class after further procedures to mend the shattered bone."

Uh huh - saving his leg is "considered elective" surgery ?
And I've flown Business Class many times and if you are booking a one way (or upgrading from an Economy fare) it's not that "daunting" considering the circumstances. And the fact he's only flying from Thailand to Australia.

And sepsis is when the body screws up while fighting an infection. Mainly starts in the lungs (according to the Mayo Clinic and the NIH). Even these days the mortality rate is 20-65% in severe cases.
If the accident was on the 30th and the doctors had scheduled that surgery "last week" but had to postpone it because they discovered sepsis in his lungs - it would have had to have developed and spread in mere hours after his accident.

Sure hope he survived. 

Dang. I'm doing something wrong.
I had a motorcycle accident a couple years ago (hit the rear of a truck that ran a stop sign right in front of me).
Had a crush injury on one foot (nearly severed the big toe and part of the foot completely) and a shattered wrist.
Even the very expensive Bangkok-Pattaya hospital was only going to charge me 500,000 baht total (hospital stay, operations and other expenses).

A hospital in Sri Racha did it for 280,000. (My Thai friends drove me around to different hospitals while I was in the back seat zoned on a dose of Morphine I didn't want but the little "village" hospital doctor insisted I needed. My friends were trying to find the "cheapest deal" even though I had 4 insurance policies. The mandatory motorcycle insurance, a separate "motorcycle accident" policy from the bank, my health insurance from the bank and my Class 1 motorcycle insurance.) For some reason I can't figure out though I still ended up paying a whack out of my own pocket. Not sure if I was supposed to submit a claim afterwards or what (and of course, no one could explain it to me).

Note to self - next time stay at Bangkok-Pattaya. Better care and closer to home. (Less than a year later I was having major issues with the plate the doctor in Sri Racha put in my wrist. The screws were tearing up the tendons in the wrist because they weren't put in properly. The wrist specialist at Bangkok-Pattaya looked at an x-ray of my wrist and literally started laughing ! (I'm serious - he was looking at the images on his computer and laughing at what the other doctor had done !)

It seems what I should have done is immediately get "a friend" to set up a fundraiser, then make up a sob story and sell it to a "reputable" media site like the Mirror or Sun and then have others pay all my expenses. 
For 1.25 million baht I could have had 1st class care at Bangkok-Pattaya, fixed my motorcycle and gone on a nice long 5 star holiday to "recuperate".

Sheesh, why wait until an accident ? Just need a generic photo of someone in a hospital and a sob story with no actual details. Oh, and a "friend" to set up the GoFundMe (and give me the cash). Hmmmm - that might be the hardest part.

[snowgard]

On 2/5/2024 at 11:13 AM, petermik said:

In general Travel Insurance policies you are covered for up to 125cc....above that you will have to pay a premium and a specialist policy is my belief.

Not all. Some are restricted to 110cc. And for sure a valid driving license & helmet is needed.
And a lot of travel insurances REJECT the coverage for driving a rented car or motorbike.

Good insurance companies gives you this information on their website. The BAD one NOT!!!
But YOU have to ask what is covered. You can't think: "They not write something. So it must be covered!!!"

Edited February 6 by snowgard

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

There is no such thing as a "scooter" it is a colloquialism that doesn't exist in Thailand or international IDP.

 

Agreed... yet the 'colloquialism' exists in policy wording and documentation...    

 

I wonder if the Policy documentation in the insurance this girl carried also contained the word 'scooter'... going by the article itself it would appear so.

[kwilco]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed... yet the 'colloquialism' exists in policy wording and documentation...    

 

I wonder if the Policy documentation in the insurance this girl carried also contained the word 'scooter'... going by the article itself it would appear so.

If I were you I'd have a look...there is no legal definition of "scooter". Under the Vienna treaty motorbikes are defined by engine capacity and KW power. 

[kwilco]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed... yet the 'colloquialism' exists in policy wording and documentation... 

How could it and in what context? Where did you see that?

How do you define a scooter?

Edited February 6 by kwilco

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I knew there was something missing from the story.

"Upon learning of Hughes’ predicament, her friends and family quickly rallied together to support her. Kerry’s colleague and friend, Tammy Hudson, set up a JustGiving page".

Same idea as GoFundMe.

She arrived in Thailand on 9 Jan, planning on staying 1 month.

Accident was on 22 Jan (according to Glasgow Live which seems to be the originating media site). 
" I had large lacerations to my face needing sutures, horrendous back pain, a head injury with bleeding to the back of my head, broken nose that needed surgery and a wound in my left knee. I was unable to walk unaided but needed to get out of hospital"

"After finding out about the freak incident and realising that Kerry would not be making her flight home, friends and family rallied round.

The nurse's colleague and close pal, Tammy Hudson, organised a Just Giving to help cobble the cash together to get Kerry home and make a dent in the medical bills. More than £10,000 has been raised so far."
(About 450,000 baht.)

Uh huh. It's always "a friend" that sets up the fundraiser, isn't it ? 

And she apparently flew home - Business Class - on 30 Jan.
Which is odd as she was supposedly staying 4 weeks so would have flown home around 7 Feb, yet her friends and family "rallied round" when realising she wouldn't make her flight home (which would have been a week after she apparently did fly home). 
(Amazingly fast recovery !)

Pretty bad when Thaiger (based in Phuket) has to get it's "local" news from an online click-bait site in Scotland.
You'd think an accident on Koh Lanta that involved a foreigner (white woman at that) would have made the front page of every media site in/around Phuket. Yet when I do a search, all the results stem from that GlasgowLive site/story.

And wow - her "friend" was able to set up a fundraiser almost immediately after the accident and in less than 6 days had already collected more than £10,000 !
Especially considering they (supposedly) waited until after the Insurance company refused to cover her.
How did her insurance company even know what kind of "scooter" she had rented ? 
And !
"I was admitted to ICU for days then had an email from my insurance saying they rejected my claim due to the scooter I hired being classed as a motorbike."

So, accident on the 22nd. Treated on Koh Lanta and transferred to "the mainland". In the ICU "for days". Finds out that her insurance claim is denied. "Friend" sets up a fund-raiser. Apparently raises over £10,000 in less than 6 days. She recovers and flies home (business class) on the 30th.
(I'm guessing her "friend" must have brought a laptop into the ICU so the woman could check her emails.)


And shocker ! There's another story of another person who had a motorcycle accident and their insurance won't cover it ! And in that story, the accident happened on Koh Samui on 30 Jan but they've already set up a fundraiser and collected over $17,000 (US).
(Of the $35,000 US they are trying to get. About 1.25 million baht at today's rate.)

Apparently his travel insurance doesn't cover "motorcycle accidents" 
And shocker - the fundraiser was set up - by a friend ! 

And here's where it really shows.
"Bad compound fracture. A clean break of the tib and fib in his lower leg.”
Followed by:
"Following the accident, Kirk underwent emergency surgery to save his leg."
"Last week, doctors were scheduled to implant an internal fixation rod to stabilise the fractured bone. However, the surgery was postponed until today due to the discovery of sepsis in his lungs."

"Despite the necessity of the procedure for his safe return home, it is considered elective."
"He faces the daunting prospect of having to fly home in business class after further procedures to mend the shattered bone."

Uh huh - saving his leg is "considered elective" surgery ?
And I've flown Business Class many times and if you are booking a one way (or upgrading from an Economy fare) it's not that "daunting" considering the circumstances. And the fact he's only flying from Thailand to Australia.

And sepsis is when the body screws up while fighting an infection. Mainly starts in the lungs (according to the Mayo Clinic and the NIH). Even these days the mortality rate is 20-65% in severe cases.
If the accident was on the 30th and the doctors had scheduled that surgery "last week" but had to postpone it because they discovered sepsis in his lungs - it would have had to have developed and spread in mere hours after his accident.

Sure hope he survived. 

Dang. I'm doing something wrong.
I had a motorcycle accident a couple years ago (hit the rear of a truck that ran a stop sign right in front of me).
Had a crush injury on one foot (nearly severed the big toe and part of the foot completely) and a shattered wrist.
Even the very expensive Bangkok-Pattaya hospital was only going to charge me 500,000 baht total (hospital stay, operations and other expenses).

A hospital in Sri Racha did it for 280,000. (My Thai friends drove me around to different hospitals while I was in the back seat zoned on a dose of Morphine I didn't want but the little "village" hospital doctor insisted I needed. My friends were trying to find the "cheapest deal" even though I had 4 insurance policies. The mandatory motorcycle insurance, a separate "motorcycle accident" policy from the bank, my health insurance from the bank and my Class 1 motorcycle insurance.) For some reason I can't figure out though I still ended up paying a whack out of my own pocket. Not sure if I was supposed to submit a claim afterwards or what (and of course, no one could explain it to me).

Note to self - next time stay at Bangkok-Pattaya. Better care and closer to home. (Less than a year later I was having major issues with the plate the doctor in Sri Racha put in my wrist. The screws were tearing up the tendons in the wrist because they weren't put in properly. The wrist specialist at Bangkok-Pattaya looked at an x-ray of my wrist and literally started laughing ! (I'm serious - he was looking at the images on his computer and laughing at what the other doctor had done !)

It seems what I should have done is immediately get "a friend" to set up a fundraiser, then make up a sob story and sell it to a "reputable" media site like the Mirror or Sun and then have others pay all my expenses. 
For 1.25 million baht I could have had 1st class care at Bangkok-Pattaya, fixed my motorcycle and gone on a nice long 5 star holiday to "recuperate".

Sheesh, why wait until an accident ? Just need a generic photo of someone in a hospital and a sob story with no actual details. Oh, and a "friend" to set up the GoFundMe (and give me the cash). Hmmmm - that might be the hardest part.

Looks like you don't understand how Thai healthcare works. Doctors aren't tied to hidpitals..you could have had the sane doctor in Bangkok Pattaya.

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, champers said:

I'm guessing the article was written by a chatbot.

Sp.... it is the message not the messenger you should be concerned about. Yet you have not voiced any counter argument whatsoever 

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

How could it and in what context? Where did you see that?

How do you define a scooter?

 

I posted the Policy Wording of my Travel Insurance...  (a few threads back) - the word Scooter is used in that... 

 

Its since been mentioned that the Policy Wording is not the policy itself - but still, it is an explanation of the policy. 

 

I'm sure I could dig more examples out - but you'll just find some manner of arguing that black is in fact white so its a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

[kwilco]

48 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I posted the Policy Wording of my Travel Insurance...  (a few threads back) - the word Scooter is used in that... 

 

Its since been mentioned that the Policy Wording is not the policy itself - but still, it is an explanation of the policy. 

 

I'm sure I could dig more examples out - but you'll just find some manner of arguing that black is in fact white so its a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

Then your insurance company are talking about something g that doesn't exist. They need to define scooter.

The wiki entry is wrong...in factbi was going to edit it.

Under their definition Vespas and Lambrettas are not scooters.

Unless they define the motorcycle correctly you will not know of you are insured.

Under the wiki definition an 850cc maxi would qualify under your insurance yet a 200cc KTM would not..

You need to get a definition from your insurance company as in Thailand the idea of "scooter" is not recognised.

 

Equally you could argue that a scooter is a kids toy which is how tge step through got its nickname

Edited February 6 by kwilco

[n00dle]

22 hours ago, RobU said:

Looks like 'Bob Scott's doesn't have any basic qualifications in English grammar or language. Which leads me to believe that Bob Scott is ficticious

Bob Scott doesn't seem to have any social media at all. It is odd for a writer/editor not even to have LinkedIn

i stand corrected, reverse image search form his pic on the thaiger theam turns up e books written by a will scott @willscottwriter on twitter. 

Edited February 6 by n00dle

[richard_smith237]

57 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Then your insurance company are talking about something g that doesn't exist. They need to define scooter.

The wiki entry is wrong...in factbi was going to edit it.

Under their definition Vespas and Lambrettas are not scooters.

Unless they define the motorcycle correctly you will not know of you are insured.

Under the wiki definition an 850cc maxi would qualify under your insurance yet a 200cc KTM would not..

You need to get a definition from your insurance company as in Thailand the idea of "scooter" is not recognised.

 

Equally you could argue that a scooter is a kids toy which is how tge step through got its nickname

 

OK.. the insurance policy wording of an international company is wrong for using the word scooter.

Wikipedia is wrong for using the word scooter.

Manufacturers are wrong for using the word scooter.

Publications and the media are wrong for using the word scooter.

Anybody who uses the word scooter is wrong.

 

... and you are right... Got it...     

 

And the word 'car' is wrong... because you insist it should only be called an automobile... 

 

 

Edited February 6 by richard_smith237

[RobU]

12 minutes ago, n00dle said:

Bob Scott doesn't seem to have any social media at all. It is odd for a writer/editor not even to have LinkedIn

Very interesting well spotted 👍

[n00dle]

 

Just now, RobU said:

Very interesting well spotted 👍

 

i edited my comment to add i stand corrected, reverse image search form his pic on the thaiger theam turns up e books written by a will scott @willscottwriter on twitter. 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

OK.. the insurance policy wording of an international company is wrong for using the word scooter.

Wikipedia is wrong for using the word scooter.

Manufacturers are wrong for using the word scooter.

Publications and the media are wrong for using the word scooter.

Anybody who uses the word scooter is wrong.

 

... and you are right... Got it...     

 

And the word 'car' is wrong... because you insist it should only be called an automobile... 

 

 

Reductio ad absurdum....just tell me what you think they mean by scooter. You haven't yet.

 

As said its a colloquialism...what companies use that word? If they did it would be a marketing term 

- Honda dream isn't actually a dream.

 

According to wiki...Vespas and Lambrettas aren't scooters.

 

Define what your insurance company means by scooter.

 

 

[Chongalulu]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:40 PM, NoshowJones said:

Sorry I meant 100 conditions of the insurance, one poster said there were 117, that would maybe take a very fast reader about 10 minutes, then another 30  trying to figure some of them out, and that's not an exaggeration.

If you read the main exceptions that takes only a few minutes and will cover nearly all the eventualities. Certainly the riding of motorcycles.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

OK.. the insurance policy wording of an international company is wrong for using the word scooter.

Wikipedia is wrong for using the word scooter.

Manufacturers are wrong for using the word scooter.

Publications and the media are wrong for using the word scooter.

Anybody who uses the word scooter is wrong.

 

... and you are right... Got it...     

 

And the word 'car' is wrong... because you insist it should only be called an automobile... 

 

 

It is a colloquialism so which of these are you covered for? I'm sure your insurance company will have a definition somewhere?

 

You may not even be covered for the first - or maybe ONLY the first.

 

Edited February 6 by kwilco

[richard_smith237]

37 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Reductio ad absurdum....just tell me what you think they mean by scooter. You haven't yet.

 

As said its a colloquialism...what companies use that word? If they did it would be a marketing term 

- Honda dream isn't actually a dream.

 

You're pathetically exhausting...

- You're getting mixed up between a model name and a variety of Motorcycle... 

 

You really want a 5 page debate about what is and what isn't a scooter ???   

 

(this will be my last comment on this point as I'm not going to get dragged into some irrelevant anally retentive nit-picking about the word scooter when I've already shown how widely used and accepted it is).

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, kwilco said:

According to wiki...Vespas and Lambrettas aren't scooters.

 

Wrong.. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6 by richard_smith237

[kwilco]

37 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You're pathetically exhausting...

- You're getting mixed up between a model name and a variety of Motorcycle... 

 

You really want a 5 page debate about what is and what isn't a scooter ???   

 

(this will be my last comment on this point as I'm not going to get dragged into some irrelevant anally retentive nit-picking about the word scooter when I've already shown how widely used and accepted it is).

 

 

 

 

Wrong.. 

 

 

 

 

 

You aren't answering / can't answer the question - you simply don't understand the problem and are probably uninsured yourself

The OP is about "insurance debacle" - you have failed to define what your insurance company calls a scooter - wiki claims scooters must be fully automatic - the original Vespas were not - whay about the other vehicles which ones does YOUR insurance company allow you to drive? I don't appear to be able to answer - which is the problem th OP had.

Edited February 6 by kwilco

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

You're getting mixed up between a model name and a variety of Motorcycle... 

no I'm talking about insurance and definition of a scooter - which you clearly don't know. You actually get halfway there as you now admit it is a "variety" of motorcycle - there is no such thing as a "scooter licence" under the Vienna convention - so how could you be licenced or insured to drive one in THailand.

 

 Your insurance looks as if it covers the insured for a peddle scooter! - check out skateboards

 

BTW - the "scooter" shown in the illustration has a hand-operated clutch so by the wiki definition, it isn't a scooter.

 

I've attached the IDP vehicle categories - as you can see there is no such thing as a scooter (or MPV, SUV, sportscar etc etc)

 

Edited February 6 by kwilco

[Senior Player]

The whole debate about scooters versus motorbikes can be confusing for your average holidaymaker. Personally, I tend to avoid them. However, there does appear to be an assumption within these forums that your average holidaymaker is always trying to somehow scam the insurance company or just get someone else to pay their medical bills via Go Fund Me. Having recently returned from a trip to LOS myself that required a few hospital visits and various tests (CT and MRI scans, etc), I can honestly say that wading through the claims process when you're actually physically challenged by an ailment can be a horrendous ordeal. Myself, I had medical and travel insurance cover with one of the top 5 travel insurance companies in the world, but I still had to jump through hoops to get my money back. And yes, I had to pay-up front and send the insurance company the actual physical printed receipts (bills)—not copies or PDFs—afterwards. So I can understand why some people ask for help when they have to pay in advance and claim back later.

 

Without going into my own illness, I can tell you that the insurance company bounced me around various departments and sub-contracted people which I found thoroughly frustrating. Also, I kept getting cut off when using the emergency telephone number and ended up communicating with them via email!! For what it's worth, the final paperwork had to be sent to a sub-contracted company based in England and took about 8-9 weeks to finally resolve. 

 

As some here have pointed out you will receive an Insurance Policy Certificate that will have your policy number, cover limits and excess waiver fees, plus an emergency contact number on. This certificate will be quite basic and will not provide the full terms and conditions, definitions and exclusions which relate to your travel insurance. This information is normally contained within the Policy Wording, a copy of which is available on their website and provided by a linked address. This is what I assume Richard was referring to when he mentioned 117-page policy wording. And yes, Richard is correct, these full terms and conditions are universal, not customized for each holidaymaker.

 

Clearly, if anyone is intending to hire a scooter or motorbike then reading your Policy Wording thoroughly first is advised. In fact, doing anything that could result in a trip to the hospital. it's best to read your insurance Policy Wording first. Obviously if you have an undiagnosed illness which you previously knew nothing about before taking out the medical insurance and boarding a plane, well, that's an entirely separate matter.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

 

14 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You aren't answering / can't answer the question - you simply don't understand the problem and are probably uninsured yourself

The OP is about "insurance debacle" - you have failed to define what your insurance company calls a scooter - wiki claims scooters must be fully automatic - the original Vespas were not - whay about the other vehicles which ones does YOUR insurance company allow you to drive? I don't appear to be able to answer - which is the problem th OP had.

 

 

Ignored as below...  

 

19 minutes ago, kwilco said:

(this will be my last comment on this point as I'm not going to get dragged into some irrelevant anally retentive nit-picking about the word scooter when I've already shown how widely used and accepted it is).