Thailand's Oldest Party Announces New Policy Platform

[hammered]

Well talking of Generals in politics. We see ex-supreme commander Ruengroj is now in the TRT rump successor party. We also see the hero of Ban Rom Khlao and worst PM ever supposedly about to join police captain Chalerm (he of the nice sons) in a new NAP. Then again we just had pol. captain Thaksin as PM who for a brieg while was replaced by pol. Gen Chidchai. The previous bribing of parties was carried out by Gen. Thammarak and we wouldnt want to leave out Gen Intharat. Thai politics has always been full of generals and who would expect the trend to decrease. There were probably more in the Thaksin camp than any other democratically elected government. It is not some new thing to suddenly start discussing the role of the military and police (few mention these) in politics. And to think because someone is retired or has left the force mean they have no influence is niaive to say the least. Politicians and the military and police have intermingled to achieve their mutual ends for years. In recent history the only civilians who have never been military or police officers have been Chaun and Banharn. There havent been many more if we go back through the decades too.

[Old Man River]

Well talking of Generals in politics. We see ex-supreme commander Ruengroj is now in the TRT rump successor party. We also see the hero of Ban Rom Khlao and worst PM ever supposedly about to join police captain Chalerm (he of the nice sons) in a new NAP. Then again we just had pol. captain Thaksin as PM who for a brieg while was replaced by pol. Gen Chidchai. The previous bribing of parties was carried out by Gen. Thammarak and we wouldnt want to leave out Gen Intharat. Thai politics has always been full of generals and who would expect the trend to decrease. There were probably more in the Thaksin camp than any other democratically elected government. It is not some new thing to suddenly start discussing the role of the military and police (few mention these) in politics. And to think because someone is retired or has left the force mean they have no influence is niaive to say the least. Politicians and the military and police have intermingled to achieve their mutual ends for years. In recent history the only civilians who have never been military or police officers have been Chaun and Banharn. There havent been many more if we go back through the decades too.

As I said after the coup, it will soon be business as usual. In order to get there, the usual suspects have to step up to the plate and that is now what we are seeing. The only new players are those in the Demo camp. We wait to see how they turn out, but for the others, we already know what to expect.

[Hampstead]

Yes, but people like Sonthi are not so bad, he should try himself in politics where he can't rely on guns. That would teach the army a lesson.

Even Gen Saprang would be better off in politics or at least in the public eye, not hidden away in state enterprise boardrooms. He certainly has an agenda, let people know about it.

As long as the army has ambitions that are political in nature, they should be given a legitimate political outlet to apply themselves. At the moment whatever they do, they do illegally. What's the benefit in that?

Good OLde Gen. Saprang the bernard manning of the east

wow the same gen. who asks tot for a nice voluntary contribution of 400 MILLION BAHT, AN exec resigns over this, and guess what the exec says yes they wanted tot to volunteer the money to the army for equipment but the equipment they wanted to purchase only costs 30 MILLION BAHT

UM A NICE 370 MILLION BAHT SCAM UNCOVERED NEWS STORY WHICH HAS SINCE DISSAPERED FROM OUR LOVELY NEWS HACKS PAPERS

and now we have the purchase of armour vehicles, um so the army will say it costs 4 BILLION BAHT , but how much will the sellers over in UKRAINE receive?

SO THE NEWS HACKS CAN SMELL A SCAM BY THE ARMY, i wonder which generals will pocket the change in their good olde offshore bank tax free accounts.

UM SO its not ok for TRT to be corrupt BUT the army can be corrupt all they want, is that what you guys applauding the millitary are saying?

the same army who install a PM who was actively, personnely and physically involved in the student massacre!!!!

WOW this thread is in need of a standing ovation for its comedic quality by those applauding the millitary and its little side sister the democrat party

WELL DONE GUYS FOR THE LAUGHTER

I MUST SALUTE YOU GUYS ALSO FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO KEEP TO THE SUBJECT MATTER OF PARTY POLICY PLATFORMS OF THE DEMOCRATS

Please give details regarding your statement that the PM ' was actively,personnely(sic),and physically involved in the student massacre.'

1992

The Present PM was involved by PERSONALLY leading a group of his soldiers into the Royal Hotel, which was a temporary hospital for students. Thai's report his soldiers beating and kicking those students inside the hotel. The bbc, cnn show soldiers also walking on top of their heads while they were made to lie on the floor.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Hampstead

[Hampstead]

133 million dollars for 96 armoured personnel carriers (NOT tanks) is a reasonable cost in the realm of military expeditures.[/b]

Particularly in light of their usage:

For security forces operating in its insurgency-hit southern provinces, officials said Monday.

The army plans to purchase the armoured personnel carriers to improve the safety of its forces in the Muslim-majority provinces along the Malaysian border, a spokeswoman said.

Separatist insurgents in the region have battled the government for more than three years, with militants regularly detonating roadside bombs near passing military convoys.

- AFP

That is true, but with elections only a few months away maybe the military should wait for an elected government to put this through. It may then be less politically questionable.

Perhaps, but with fatalities coming on a daily basis, it's difficult to ask the potential widows to wait and postpone such a much-needed addition. The AFP also reports this procurement item has been in the works since 2001 with constant delays... resulting, in some measure, to any number of additional deaths of soldiers who are travelling unprotected in unarmoured vehicles.

Thats great S john

if you care so much about the thai army, why dont you pop down to soi aree and post a few charity cheques to some of these generals, be carefull when walking into their driveways, you'll have to side step the brand new lamborghine's, bmw's and mercedes's, sitting outside the art deco 30 million baht house's, but that shouldnt matter for you, right, because you are a believer of no corruption in the ranks of the 2-300 army generals in thailand.

Got anything more than a forged photo (ala PM's supposed luxury mansion in the national forest that turned out to be just pure perjury) of these specific things of which you speak?

Also, do you have anything to quote that any one, anywhere at any time in any forum in thaivisa has said there is no corruption in the Army?

OMG

YOU ARE SUCH A STANDUP COMEDIAN, I SALUTE YOU, AND JUST FOR YOU ITS ALL IN C LETTERS

IF YOU DONT KNOW THE PHAYA THAI AREA AROUND AREE? THE MAIN AREA STARTS FROM EITHER SIDE OF PAHAYOTHIN ROAD FROM SOI 1 TO SOI 9

THE AREE SAMPHAN AREA IS CLOSE TWO MILITARY BASES, THE ONE AT SANAM PAO, AND THE HEAD QUARTERS, WHICH IS LOCATED NOT FAR FROM DUSIT ZOO, ALONG THIS AREA IS ALSO THE PARLIAMENT, THE KING'S RESIDENCE, ALONG PHAYAYOTHIN ROAD, YOU HAVE THE BORDER POLICE HEADQUATERS AND THE ACCADAMY, YOU ALSO HAVE THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE, INLAND REVENUE, PUBLIC RELATIONS AND A FEW RADIO STATIONS, ALONG WITH CHANNEL 7 AND OF COURSE CHANNEL 5 WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE GROUNDS OF THE SANAM PAO MILLITARY BASE.

THE AREE AREA HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE PROMINANT PLACE FOR THESE RICH THAIS TO HAVE A HOME WHO ARE STATIONED AT THE ABOVE LIST.

ITS EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO AVOID THESE THAIS IF YOU LIVE IN THAT AREA

SO S JOHN, WHY DONT YOU TAKE A FEW PHOTOS OF THESE GUYS. I AM SURE THEY WONT MIND A FOREIGNER TAKING A PHOTO OF THEIR 10-15 CARS IN THEIR COMPOUNDS, SITTING UNDER THE MOST EXTROADINARY DESIGNED HOMES, THAT WOULDNT LOOK OUT OF PLACE IN L.A

THESE GENERALS, ARMY AND POLICE HAVING THE MOST LAVISH, LUXORIOUS LIFESTYLE WITHOUT ANY CARE IN THE WORLD IF PEOPLE CAN SEE HOW THEY AND THEIR FAMALIES LIVE!!!

PLEASE KEEP ME SMILING S JOHN

[Siripon]

Yes, but people like Sonthi are not so bad, he should try himself in politics where he can't rely on guns. That would teach the army a lesson.

Even Gen Saprang would be better off in politics or at least in the public eye, not hidden away in state enterprise boardrooms. He certainly has an agenda, let people know about it.

As long as the army has ambitions that are political in nature, they should be given a legitimate political outlet to apply themselves. At the moment whatever they do, they do illegally. What's the benefit in that?

Good OLde Gen. Saprang the bernard manning of the east

wow the same gen. who asks tot for a nice voluntary contribution of 400 MILLION BAHT, AN exec resigns over this, and guess what the exec says yes they wanted tot to volunteer the money to the army for equipment but the equipment they wanted to purchase only costs 30 MILLION BAHT

UM A NICE 370 MILLION BAHT SCAM UNCOVERED NEWS STORY WHICH HAS SINCE DISSAPERED FROM OUR LOVELY NEWS HACKS PAPERS

and now we have the purchase of armour vehicles, um so the army will say it costs 4 BILLION BAHT , but how much will the sellers over in UKRAINE receive?

SO THE NEWS HACKS CAN SMELL A SCAM BY THE ARMY, i wonder which generals will pocket the change in their good olde offshore bank tax free accounts.

UM SO its not ok for TRT to be corrupt BUT the army can be corrupt all they want, is that what you guys applauding the millitary are saying?

the same army who install a PM who was actively, personnely and physically involved in the student massacre!!!!

WOW this thread is in need of a standing ovation for its comedic quality by those applauding the millitary and its little side sister the democrat party

WELL DONE GUYS FOR THE LAUGHTER

I MUST SALUTE YOU GUYS ALSO FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO KEEP TO THE SUBJECT MATTER OF PARTY POLICY PLATFORMS OF THE DEMOCRATS

Please give details regarding your statement that the PM ' was actively,personnely(sic),and physically involved in the student massacre.'

1992

The Present PM was involved by PERSONALLY leading a group of his soldiers into the Royal Hotel, which was a temporary hospital for students. Thai's report his soldiers beating and kicking those students inside the hotel. The bbc, cnn show soldiers also walking on top of their heads while they were made to lie on the floor.

Wikipedia reports- both yourself, and the colonel several months ago, quote it, but not even verified by independent sources.

But I have to say is that it?

The extent of Khun Surayud's involvement in Black May? Led some troops into the Royal Hotel, right next to Sanam Luang, at the time no temporary hospital, just the nearest hiding place for anyone fleeing the troops; and then apparently some of his men beat up some protestors.

There was no massacre at the Royal Hotel.

If that's the worst he did in 40 years of army service it's nothing.

He didn't give the green light to kill, like your square head friend did in the drugs war.

He has not during his tenure allowed activists to disappear, over 16 when was Frank was in charge ,followed by cynical comments such as he, (Somchai the prominent lawyer from the south murdered), 'probably had an argument with his wife'.

[ColPyat]

Wikipedia reports- both yourself, and the colonel several months ago, quote it, but not even verified by independent sources.

But I have to say is that it?

The extent of Khun Surayud's involvement in Black May? Led some troops into the Royal Hotel, right next to Sanam Luang, at the time no temporary hospital, just the nearest hiding place for anyone fleeing the troops; and then apparently some of his men beat up some protestors.

There was no massacre at the Royal Hotel.

If that's the worst he did in 40 years of army service it's nothing.

He didn't give the green light to kill, like your square head friend did in the drugs war.

He has not during his tenure allowed activists to disappear, over 16 when was Frank was in charge ,followed by cynical comments such as he, (Somchai the prominent lawyer from the south murdered), 'probably had an argument with his wife'.

I fear that we will never get to know if he has given a kill order or not as long as the investigation into the May massacre stays secret. He was at the time commanding general of special warfare command, whose troops were heavily involved in the killings of the May massacre. And after that incident he was removed to a somewhat inactive post until Chuan (i believe) reactivated Surayud.

Regardless of Thaksin's rethorics during the drug war, there still is no definite proof yet that he has given kill orders.

I fear that both incidents will go the way so far all gross human rights violations went in Thailand - no open full investigation, nobody high up in the chain of power punished other than temporary loss of face. I personally find it revolting that the different players in the many massacres that happened in Thailand can play on all sides of the game still, give their advice (Thanin - even rewarded with a seat on the privy council, Pallop Pinmanee, Suchinda of '92 fame, both pro junta, Samak opposing the junta, and so many others).

[Plus]

Below is the direct quote from Giles U. book, the only source of the allegations against Surayud that I know.

This "damning" evidence was played when the book was first released but no one picked up on that later on. I wonder why. Surayud has plenty of enemies, why no one ever mentions this episode anymore.

Where there's smoke, there's fire, but in this case there isn't a lot of smoke to begin with.

"In fact, Surayud, while he was serving in the armed forces in 1992,

was partly responsible for the blood bath against unarmed

pro-democracy demonstrators.

He personally led a group of 16

soldiers into the Royal Hotel which was a temporary field hospital.

Here, his soldiers beat and kicked people.

News reports from the

BBC and CNN at the time show soldiers walking on top of those

who were made to lie on the floor."

[ColPyat]

Below is the direct quote from Giles U. book, the only source of the allegations against Surayud that I know.

Quoted in this same book was also a Siam Rath interview of Surayudh in which this incident was confirmed.

[Plus]

Not exactly, but there are following footnotes:

"See Kevin Hewison (2006) “General Surayud Chulanon: a man and his

contradictions”. Carolina Asia Center, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

Surayud admitted this to Thai Post. 22 June 2000."

[ColPyat]

Not exactly, but there are following footnotes:

"See Kevin Hewison (2006) “General Surayud Chulanon: a man and his

contradictions”. Carolina Asia Center, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

Surayud admitted this to Thai Post. 22 June 2000."

Thank you for correcting me, and giving additional independent evidence that this incident actually did happen and not just in Ungpakorn's fantasy.

But basically, yes, it did happen. And i would very much like to have the investigations into the May Massacre to be made public. I would like to have proof other than Surayud's word that he did not order the troops under his command to use their guns on demonstrators. Otherwise, the allegations will stay.

[sriracha john]

133 million dollars for 96 armoured personnel carriers (NOT tanks) is a reasonable cost in the realm of military expeditures.[/b]

Particularly in light of their usage:

For security forces operating in its insurgency-hit southern provinces, officials said Monday.

The army plans to purchase the armoured personnel carriers to improve the safety of its forces in the Muslim-majority provinces along the Malaysian border, a spokeswoman said.

Separatist insurgents in the region have battled the government for more than three years, with militants regularly detonating roadside bombs near passing military convoys.

- AFP

That is true, but with elections only a few months away maybe the military should wait for an elected government to put this through. It may then be less politically questionable.

Perhaps, but with fatalities coming on a daily basis, it's difficult to ask the potential widows to wait and postpone such a much-needed addition. The AFP also reports this procurement item has been in the works since 2001 with constant delays... resulting, in some measure, to any number of additional deaths of soldiers who are travelling unprotected in unarmoured vehicles.

Thats great S john

if you care so much about the thai army, why dont you pop down to soi aree and post a few charity cheques to some of these generals, be carefull when walking into their driveways, you'll have to side step the brand new lamborghine's, bmw's and mercedes's, sitting outside the art deco 30 million baht house's, but that shouldnt matter for you, right, because you are a believer of no corruption in the ranks of the 2-300 army generals in thailand.

Got anything more than a forged photo (ala PM's supposed luxury mansion in the national forest that turned out to be just pure perjury) of these specific things of which you speak?

Also, do you have anything to quote that any one, anywhere at any time in any forum in thaivisa has said there is no corruption in the Army?

OMG

YOU ARE SUCH A STANDUP COMEDIAN, I SALUTE YOU, AND JUST FOR YOU ITS ALL IN C LETTERS

IF YOU DONT KNOW THE PHAYA THAI AREA AROUND AREE? THE MAIN AREA STARTS FROM EITHER SIDE OF PAHAYOTHIN ROAD FROM SOI 1 TO SOI 9

THE AREE SAMPHAN AREA IS CLOSE TWO MILITARY BASES, THE ONE AT SANAM PAO, AND THE HEAD QUARTERS, WHICH IS LOCATED NOT FAR FROM DUSIT ZOO, ALONG THIS AREA IS ALSO THE PARLIAMENT, THE KING'S RESIDENCE, ALONG PHAYAYOTHIN ROAD, YOU HAVE THE BORDER POLICE HEADQUATERS AND THE ACCADAMY, YOU ALSO HAVE THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE, INLAND REVENUE, PUBLIC RELATIONS AND A FEW RADIO STATIONS, ALONG WITH CHANNEL 7 AND OF COURSE CHANNEL 5 WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE GROUNDS OF THE SANAM PAO MILLITARY BASE.

THE AREE AREA HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE PROMINANT PLACE FOR THESE RICH THAIS TO HAVE A HOME WHO ARE STATIONED AT THE ABOVE LIST.

ITS EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO AVOID THESE THAIS IF YOU LIVE IN THAT AREA

SO S JOHN, WHY DONT YOU TAKE A FEW PHOTOS OF THESE GUYS. I AM SURE THEY WONT MIND A FOREIGNER TAKING A PHOTO OF THEIR 10-15 CARS IN THEIR COMPOUNDS, SITTING UNDER THE MOST EXTROADINARY DESIGNED HOMES, THAT WOULDNT LOOK OUT OF PLACE IN L.A

THESE GENERALS, ARMY AND POLICE HAVING THE MOST LAVISH, LUXORIOUS LIFESTYLE WITHOUT ANY CARE IN THE WORLD IF PEOPLE CAN SEE HOW THEY AND THEIR FAMALIES LIVE!!!

PLEASE KEEP ME SMILING S JOHN

Taking two of these should help you.

[Plus]

I'm pretty sure Giles didn't just make it up.

We don't know the details, however. For some reason Giles refers to CNN and BBC, not Thai Rath or Hewinson book, when he talks about soldiers walking on top of people lying on the floor.

Also Hewinson book is very recent, probably post-coup. I don't think Giles would jave left any factual information from that book when he tried to build a case against Surayud.

It was definitely not a massacre and no ptotesters were shot under Surayud's watch.

[ColPyat]

It was definitely not a massacre and no ptotesters were shot under Surayud's watch.

That particular incident may have just been a brutal treatment of protesters, the May Massacre itself though was a massacre. And there is still the question regarding Gen. Surayud being commanding officer of special warfare command, whose troops were involved in the killing of protesters, but he as commanding general, according to his own words, has not ordered his troops to kill. Well, who then gave the order? General Sonthi? A lower ranked officer?

But unless the investigation is made public - we will never know.

Edited August 9, 2007 by ColPyat

[Hampstead]

133 million dollars for 96 armoured personnel carriers (NOT tanks) is a reasonable cost in the realm of military expeditures.[/b]

Particularly in light of their usage:

For security forces operating in its insurgency-hit southern provinces, officials said Monday.

The army plans to purchase the armoured personnel carriers to improve the safety of its forces in the Muslim-majority provinces along the Malaysian border, a spokeswoman said.

Separatist insurgents in the region have battled the government for more than three years, with militants regularly detonating roadside bombs near passing military convoys.

- AFP

That is true, but with elections only a few months away maybe the military should wait for an elected government to put this through. It may then be less politically questionable.

Perhaps, but with fatalities coming on a daily basis, it's difficult to ask the potential widows to wait and postpone such a much-needed addition. The AFP also reports this procurement item has been in the works since 2001 with constant delays... resulting, in some measure, to any number of additional deaths of soldiers who are travelling unprotected in unarmoured vehicles.

Thats great S john

if you care so much about the thai army, why dont you pop down to soi aree and post a few charity cheques to some of these generals, be carefull when walking into their driveways, you'll have to side step the brand new lamborghine's, bmw's and mercedes's, sitting outside the art deco 30 million baht house's, but that shouldnt matter for you, right, because you are a believer of no corruption in the ranks of the 2-300 army generals in thailand.

Got anything more than a forged photo (ala PM's supposed luxury mansion in the national forest that turned out to be just pure perjury) of these specific things of which you speak?

Also, do you have anything to quote that any one, anywhere at any time in any forum in thaivisa has said there is no corruption in the Army?

OMG

YOU ARE SUCH A STANDUP COMEDIAN, I SALUTE YOU, AND JUST FOR YOU ITS ALL IN C LETTERS

IF YOU DONT KNOW THE PHAYA THAI AREA AROUND AREE? THE MAIN AREA STARTS FROM EITHER SIDE OF PAHAYOTHIN ROAD FROM SOI 1 TO SOI 9

THE AREE SAMPHAN AREA IS CLOSE TWO MILITARY BASES, THE ONE AT SANAM PAO, AND THE HEAD QUARTERS, WHICH IS LOCATED NOT FAR FROM DUSIT ZOO, ALONG THIS AREA IS ALSO THE PARLIAMENT, THE KING'S RESIDENCE, ALONG PHAYAYOTHIN ROAD, YOU HAVE THE BORDER POLICE HEADQUATERS AND THE ACCADAMY, YOU ALSO HAVE THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE, INLAND REVENUE, PUBLIC RELATIONS AND A FEW RADIO STATIONS, ALONG WITH CHANNEL 7 AND OF COURSE CHANNEL 5 WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE GROUNDS OF THE SANAM PAO MILLITARY BASE.

THE AREE AREA HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE PROMINANT PLACE FOR THESE RICH THAIS TO HAVE A HOME WHO ARE STATIONED AT THE ABOVE LIST.

ITS EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO AVOID THESE THAIS IF YOU LIVE IN THAT AREA

SO S JOHN, WHY DONT YOU TAKE A FEW PHOTOS OF THESE GUYS. I AM SURE THEY WONT MIND A FOREIGNER TAKING A PHOTO OF THEIR 10-15 CARS IN THEIR COMPOUNDS, SITTING UNDER THE MOST EXTROADINARY DESIGNED HOMES, THAT WOULDNT LOOK OUT OF PLACE IN L.A

THESE GENERALS, ARMY AND POLICE HAVING THE MOST LAVISH, LUXORIOUS LIFESTYLE WITHOUT ANY CARE IN THE WORLD IF PEOPLE CAN SEE HOW THEY AND THEIR FAMALIES LIVE!!!

PLEASE KEEP ME SMILING S JOHN

Taking two of these should help you.

Great to see you are finally understanding how corruption is an epidemic within all sectors of thai society, especially the thai miliatry.

so why dont you mention this in your posts, instead of sticking your head up the millitarys behind

[Jai Dee]

Settle down please... keep the personal attacks out of this thread and get back to the subject matter for discussion.

[hammered]

If anyone is interested in seeing what the Dems have to say rather than just fighting each other, here is the link: http://www.democrat.or.th/index.asp

Oh you need to be able to read Thai, but that should be no problem for any of us self styled experts on Thai politics!

[sriracha john]

Democrat policy plans covering poverty eradication, education reform, health care reform, achieving peace in the South, political reform, media issues, and transportation issues are available here:

http://www.democrat.or.th/intention.htm

If anyone is interested in seeing what the Dems have to say rather than just fighting each other, here is the link: http://www.democrat.or.th/index.asp

Oh you need to be able to read Thai, but that should be no problem for any of us self styled experts on Thai politics!

I tried to offer the same 102 posts earlier (post #64) in this thread to no avail.... but perhaps the second time around, it'll be more productive.

[Mid]

Suthep claims Thaksin funds politicians

Secretary-general of Democrat party Suthep Thaugsuban accused a few political figures of receiving billion-baht fund from ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra to serve as his nominees.

Mr Suthep did not give names of these people, but only hinted that they are not former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh and former Bangkok governor Samak Sundaravej.

snip

(BangkokPost.com)

[hammered]

Suthep claims Thaksin funds politicians

Secretary-general of Democrat party Suthep Thaugsuban accused a few political figures of receiving billion-baht fund from ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra to serve as his nominees.

Mr Suthep did not give names of these people, but only hinted that they are not former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh and former Bangkok governor Samak Sundaravej.

snip

(BangkokPost.com)

Nothing new there. Stating what others have already, and what is widely accepted.