Hamas Unveils Truce Proposal, Netanyahu states its delusional

[Social Media]

 

In a significant development amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, the terror group has put forward a truce proposal aimed at ending hostilities and securing the release of hostages held by both sides. The proposal, which spans over four-and-a-half months, outlines a series of steps to be taken by both parties, with the ultimate goal of achieving a lasting ceasefire and addressing key humanitarian concerns.

 

According to sources familiar with the negotiations, Hamas's proposal follows an outline presented by Qatari and Egyptian mediators, with backing from the United States and Israel. While the proposal does not initially require a guarantee of a permanent ceasefire, it emphasizes the need to reach an agreement to end the war during the truce period before the final release of hostages.

 

The Hamas proposal is structured into three phases, each lasting 45 days. During the first phase, priority is given to the release of women hostages, males under 19, the elderly, and the sick. In exchange, Hamas seeks the release of Palestinian women and children from Israeli jails. The proposal also calls for the beginning of Gaza's reconstruction and the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the region.

 

Subsequent phases of the truce involve the release of remaining male hostages and the exchange of bodies and remains between the two sides. Throughout the process, Hamas aims to negotiate the terms necessary to end mutual military operations and achieve lasting calm.

 

Central to Hamas's proposal is the release of 1,500 Palestinian prisoners from Israeli jails, with a third of them selected from a list of Palestinians serving life sentences. Additionally, the truce would facilitate the increased flow of humanitarian aid to Gaza, addressing urgent needs in the region.

 

While the proposal marks a significant step towards de-escalation, challenges remain, particularly concerning Israel's response. Israeli officials have expressed reservations about halting military operations and releasing significant numbers of Palestinian prisoners. Moreover, the demand for a permanent ceasefire poses a significant obstacle, as Israel remains committed to dismantling Hamas, which it considers a terrorist organization.

 

Despite these challenges, there is cautious optimism surrounding the negotiations. Qatar's Prime Minister has expressed optimism after receiving Hamas's response, while US President Joe Biden noted ongoing negotiations. Additionally, Israel's Mossad spy agency is currently reviewing the proposal, indicating a willingness to engage in further discussions.

 

The proposal comes amidst heightened tensions in the region, with ongoing violence causing significant loss of life and humanitarian suffering. Both sides face pressure to find a peaceful resolution to the conflict, with the international community closely monitoring developments.

 

As negotiations continue, the focus remains on achieving a sustainable ceasefire that addresses the root causes of the conflict and ensures the safety and well-being of all parties involved. Hamas's truce proposal represents a significant opportunity to move towards peace, but its success will depend on the willingness of both Israel and Hamas to engage in meaningful dialogue and compromise.

 

Here's what the Hamas 3-phase plan would look like
 

Phase one would include the release of Israeli hostages, including women and children (under 19 years old) “who are not enlisted, as well as the elderly and the sick, in exchange for a specific number of Palestinian prisoners,” Hamas said. It would also include “intensifying humanitarian aid, relocating forces outside populated areas, allowing the start of reconstruction works for hospitals, houses, and facilities in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and allowing the United Nations and its agencies to provide humanitarian services and establish housing camps for the population.”

 

The first phase would also include a “temporary cessation of military operations and aerial reconnaissance, and the withdrawal of Israeli forces away from populated areas in the Gaza Strip to be parallel to the separation line, in order to facilitate the exchange of detainees.”

 

Phase two would see the “completion of (indirect) talks on the requirements necessary for the continuation of the mutual cessation of military operations and the return to a state of complete calm.”

This phase would aim for the release of all male hostages held in Gaza (civilians and enlisted personnel) “in exchange for a specified number of Palestinian prisoners, continuing the humanitarian measures of the first phase, the withdrawal of Israeli forces outside the borders of all areas of the Gaza Strip, and the comprehensive reconstruction of houses, facilities, and infrastructure that were destroyed in all areas of the Gaza Strip.”

 

Remember: Israel has repeatedly said it will not withdraw troops from Gaza until a complete victory over Hamas and other militant groups in the territory.

 

Phase three would aim “to exchange bodies and remains of the deceased on both sides after their arrival and identification,” while humanitarian aid and reconstruction continue.

 

Finally, Hamas proposes that the guarantors of the agreement would be Egypt, Qatar, Turkey, Russia and the United Nations. It does not include the US among the guarantors.

 

Benjamin Netanyahu states Hamas proposal is "delusional"

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has delivered a firm response to Hamas' proposals for a ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza, labeling them as "delusional" and casting doubt on the prospects for diplomatic progress in halting the ongoing conflict.

 

Speaking during a briefing on Wednesday, Netanyahu made it clear that Israel had not committed to any of the terms laid out by Hamas in their proposal. He dismissed the notion of acquiescing to what he described as the "delusional demands" of Hamas, particularly regarding the release of terrorists with "blood on their hands."

 

Highlighting the need for negotiation and emphasizing that it is a process, Netanyahu expressed skepticism about the current trajectory of discussions with Hamas, suggesting that the militant group's stance was not conducive to meaningful progress.

 

Hamas had put forward its response to a proposed deal, which included calls for a phased Israeli withdrawal from Gaza over a four-and-a-half-month truce period, culminating in a permanent end to the conflict. However, Netanyahu reiterated Israel's objective of achieving "complete victory" and emphasized the country's commitment to not settling for anything less.

 

Asserting confidence in Israel's ability to achieve victory, Netanyahu outlined a timeline that he believes is within reach, asserting that victory is not a distant prospect but rather attainable in a matter of months.

 

08.02.24

Source

 

 

 

[flyingtlger]

Apparently Netanyahu rejected the proposition:

Israel's Netanyahu rejects Gaza ceasefire offer, pledges to defeat Hamas

 

 

Edited February 8 by flyingtlger

[WDSmart]

From the summary of the details in this proposal, I think it has several problems. Here are my suggestions:

• The immediate but intermediary objective should be a permanent ceasefire enforced by a UN Peacekeeping Force that would be stationed in Gaza, the West Bank, and other parts of Israel.
• The long-term objective should be a division of Israel into two states, Israel and Palestine. I'd suggest starting with the 1947 UN proposed map that divided the area up about 50:50 but making adjustments for conditions like the current mix of population, which is (I think) about 60:40 in favor of Israelites. The final map should have the two territories separate, but all the regions inside of each territory are contiguous, which is not the case with the 1947 UN proposed map.
• The hostages should be released in phases corresponding to the agreement's stages of completion. I'd recommend that any hostages needing medical attention and the elderly be released during the first phase, but the rest of the hostages should be released during the next two or three phases in the reverse order suggested above. The next group would be single men, and the last group would be women with children and lone children.

Of course, now, it is reported that Israel has rejected the offer, but as a new one is being negotiated, I think my suggestions above should be considered. 

 

Edited February 8 by WDSmart
Fix typo

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic post and response removed.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

From the summary of the details in this proposal, I think there are several problems with it. Here are my suggestions:

• The immediate but intermediary objective should be a permanent ceasefire enforced by a UN Peacekeeping Force that would stationed in Gaza, the West Bank, and other parts of Israel.
• The long-term objective should be a division of Israel into two states, Israel and Palestine. I'd suggest starting with the 1947 UN proposed map that divided the area up about 50:50 but making adjustments for conditions like the current mix of population, which is (I think) about 60:40 in favor of Israelites. The final map should have the two territories separate, but all the regions inside of each territory are contiguous, which is not the case with the 1947UN proposed map.
• The hostages should be released in phases corresponding to the agreement's stages of completion. I'd recommend that any hostages needing medical attention and the elderly be released during the first phase, but the rest of the hostages should be released during the next two or three phases in the reverse order suggested above. The next group would be single men, and the last group would be women with children and lone children.

Of course, now, it is reported that Israel has rejected the offer, but as a new one is being negotiated, I think my suggestions above should be considered. 

 

 

Maybe get a clue before making suggestions?

 

It is obviously hard enough to agree even on a limited deal. You somehow thing it's possible to reach a more comprehensive one - based on what? How? It's already been explained to you, on previous posts, what UN Peacekeeping forces are neither what you imagine them to be, nor very effective - go on and disregard that again.

 

There are no acceptable territorial two-state solutions which involves continuous connection between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. There are other ways to go about it - also detailed in response to your past nonsense.

 

What would be the logic of prioritizing the release of single men over children?

 

As usual, you've no idea what you're posting about. You're a troll.

 

Edited February 8 by Morch

[WDSmart]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Maybe get a clue before making suggestions?

 

It is obviously hard enough to agree even on a limited deal. You somehow thing it's possible to reach a more comprehensive one - based on what? How? It's already been explained to you, on previous posts, what UN Peacekeeping forces are neither what you imagine them to be, nor very effective - go on and disregard that again.

 

There are no acceptable territorial two-state solutions which involves continuous connection between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. There are other ways to go about it - also detailed in response to your past nonsense.

 

What would be the logic of prioritizing the release of single men over children?

 

As usual, you've no idea what you're posting about. You're a troll.

 

My suggestions are for a complete deal since any limited deal will not put a stop to this continuing disaster.

I don't disregard any of your comments, but I certainly disagree with them, so they don't affect my new posts.

I agree that a new map of the two territories will be problematic. That will have to be left up to the parties involve, including the UN. I still believe the goals of two separate states with contiguous territories is very, very important.

I would prioritize the release of the hostages in the reverse order as has been suggested because I believe Israel values them in the order that has previously been suggested. I think that in order to ensure Israel's completion of each phase of an agreement, the hostages that are considered the most valuable should be released last. I've made an exception for those needing medical care and the elderly.

I'm not a troll. You, IMO, are just unable to appropriately conduct a discussion with someone with whom you disagree. 

Edited February 8 by WDSmart

[Bkk Brian]

58 minutes ago, Social Media said:

allowing the United Nations and its agencies to provide humanitarian services and establish housing camps for the population.

Of course, Hamas insists on the UNRWA as part of phase 1. No surprise there, its a healthy employee for Hamas fighters and its mainly Western Countries that finance it, Arab countries, not much at all compared.

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

My suggestions are for a complete deal since any limited deal will not put a stop to this continuing disaster.

I don't disregard any of your comments, but I certainly disagree with them, so they don't affect my new posts.

I agree that a new map of the two territories will be problematic. That will have to be left up to the parties involve, including the UN. I still believe the goals of two separate states with contiguous territories is very, very important.

I would prioritize the release of the hostages in the reverse order as has been suggested because I believe Israel values them in the order that has previously been suggested. I think that in order to ensure Israel's completion of each phase of an agreement, the hostages that are considered the most valuable should be released last. I've made an exception for those needing medical care and the elderly.

I'm not a troll. You, IMO, are just unable to appropriately conduct a discussion with someone with whom you disagree. 

 

 

So, in your world, the fact that even a limited deal is almost impossible is a recommendation that the focus will be on a harder obstacle tackled...because? What would be the point? How would delaying things further do much for the people of Gaza or the hostages?

 

You can disregard whatever. You usually do. Facts. Reality. Whatever.

 

What you 'believe' is of no importance, considering the above line - as in disregarding facts and reality. Maybe get informed on the subject matter you post about.

 

Your hostages point is well taken. You are advocating using children held hostage for leverage. You're not only a troll - but scum as well

[Morch]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Of course, Hamas insists on the UNRWA as part of phase 1. No surprise there, its a healthy employee for Hamas fighters and its mainly Western Countries that finance it, Arab countries, not much at all compared.

 

Israel's actual position is, apparently, that UNRWA being reformed/taken out of the equation is something done post-war, post-agreements.

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

So, in your world, the fact that even a limited deal is almost impossible is a recommendation that the focus will be on a harder obstacle tackled...because? What would be the point? How would delaying things further do much for the people of Gaza or the hostages?

 

You can disregard whatever. You usually do. Facts. Reality. Whatever.

 

What you 'believe' is of no importance, considering the above line - as in disregarding facts and reality. Maybe get informed on the subject matter you post about.

 

Your hostages point is well taken. You are advocating using children held hostage for leverage. You're not only a troll - but scum as well

A limited deal is a limited deal. It will not solve this ongoing tragedy, which is costing the lives of many on both sides. I see little value in a limited deal if, when it has been completed, Israel will just renew its killing of virtually all Palestinians within its state's boundaries, and Hama will continue to terrorize Israelis. I believe a complete deal, which includes at least the agreement to establish two separate states, is necessary to stop all this killing.

What I believe is of the utmost importance to me. I don't disregard "facts." I treat them with skepticism sometimes. After all, we've all discovered that "facts" reported in the news sometimes change after more scrutiny. I also don't necessarily perceive the same "reality" you do. That, IMO, is based on what I believe is your biases.

Hamas is using the hostages as leverage. I don't advocate taking hostages. I'm only suggesting how Hamas, after taking them, should consider using them to augment their position in negotiations. Israel is doing the same thing with their threat of continuing to kill Palestinians, both fighters and civilians and, yes, children.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, flyingtlger said:

Apparently Netanyahu rejected the proposition:

Israel's Netanyahu rejects Gaza ceasefire offer, pledges to defeat Hamas

 

 

You reckon. IMO he's going to reject anything put forward, as IMO he knows it means the end of his coalition government, the end of his premiership and very possibly jail. Jehova could extend a finger pointing at him from above and shout "take the deal" and he'd reject it.

 

The elephant in the room is Biden, as he is looking decidedly unpopular at home with an election coming up, and will he decide to do the right thing and stop the conflict? He's been making the right noises, but still sending lots and lots of bombs, so I guess it depends........... on a lot of things.

Unless Biden makes it happen, it probably won't.

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post and reply has been removed

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I see little value in a limited deal if, when it has been completed, Israel will just renew its killing of virtually all Palestinians within its state's boundaries, and Hama will continue to terrorize Israelis. I believe a complete deal, which includes at least the agreement to establish two separate states, is necessary to stop all this killing.

Agree 100%. There is no reason for Hamas to accept less than a full deal, as they know the slaughter will just resume after any pause ends. It also needs to be unlimited aid and all the equipment needed to restore electricity, water, sewage, roads, and rebuild the infrastructure such as schools and hospitals, including ambulances, fire trucks etc.

I'd go further and demand the port is opened to the world and freedom of fishing boats.

 

Essential is the removal of all israeli military and the end of the blockade, with a passage between Gaza and the West Bank.

 

Pish posh on any "agreement" to establish two separate states. It needs to be a fact and enforced by the UN with NO US involvement whatsoever. The US has proven, IMO, that it is a bad actor when it comes to the Palestinians, and should be sidelined entirely.

IMO expecting the US to be neutral where israel is concerned is like a chicken asking the fox not to eat it.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

My suggestions are for a complete deal since any limited deal will not put a stop to this continuing disaster.

I don't disregard any of your comments, but I certainly disagree with them, so they don't affect my new posts.

I agree that a new map of the two territories will be problematic. That will have to be left up to the parties involve, including the UN. I still believe the goals of two separate states with contiguous territories is very, very important.

I would prioritize the release of the hostages in the reverse order as has been suggested because I believe Israel values them in the order that has previously been suggested. I think that in order to ensure Israel's completion of each phase of an agreement, the hostages that are considered the most valuable should be released last. I've made an exception for those needing medical care and the elderly.

I'm not a troll. You, IMO, are just unable to appropriately conduct a discussion with someone with whom you disagree. 

You make a very good point there. Keep posting the truth, no matter the expected opposition.

[Bkk Brian]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You make a very good point there. Keep posting the truth, no matter the expected opposition.

He keeps posting Hamas talking points, no wonder you agree with it all. Do you actually remember what ICJ ordered Hamas to do with the hostages? Do you remember what the UN Security Council ordered?

Edited February 8 by Bkk Brian

[Morch]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

A limited deal is a limited deal. It will not solve this ongoing tragedy, which is costing the lives of many on both sides. I see little value in a limited deal if, when it has been completed, Israel will just renew its killing of virtually all Palestinians within its state's boundaries, and Hama will continue to terrorize Israelis. I believe a complete deal, which includes at least the agreement to establish two separate states, is necessary to stop all this killing.

What I believe is of the utmost importance to me. I don't disregard "facts." I treat them with skepticism sometimes. After all, we've all discovered that "facts" reported in the news sometimes change after more scrutiny. I also don't necessarily perceive the same "reality" you do. That, IMO, is based on what I believe is your biases.

Hamas is using the hostages as leverage. I don't advocate taking hostages. I'm only suggesting how Hamas, after taking them, should consider using them to augment their position in negotiations. Israel is doing the same thing with their threat of continuing to kill Palestinians, both fighters and civilians and, yes, children.

 

"renew its killing of virtually all Palestinians within its state's boundaries"

 

Other than in your fact-light trolling posts - this is not real. There is no such. You're making things up, as usual. 20% of Israel's population are Arabs. Their numbers steadily grow. Same goes for the demographics of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

 

The point of this 'deal' is not to solve the entire conflict, but to address the current situation. You, from the comfort of your Thai home, might not see much value in it, and perhaps wouldn't mind the death and destruction to continue, until a permanent comprehensive solution is reached. Of course, it would also allow you to spew more lies, nonsense, as long as it lasts - so I can see the appeal.

 

You most obviously disregard facts, and reality. Over and over again. Your 'opinions' are based on nothing much. This was demonstrated numerous times by now - hence the troll label.

 

You are advocating Hamas's usage of the hostages, lending it legitimacy. You even go a step further than Hamas, doing so, by advocating holding on to the more vulnerable hostage longer. You are, as said, scum. And no, Israel is not doing the same thing - Israel did not start this, and there were no bombings or IDF troops in Gaza on 6/10. Israel is not targeting civilians. Just more of your standard issue false equivalency efforts. 

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You reckon. IMO he's going to reject anything put forward, as IMO he knows it means the end of his coalition government, the end of his premiership and very possibly jail. Jehova could extend a finger pointing at him from above and shout "take the deal" and he'd reject it.

 

The elephant in the room is Biden, as he is looking decidedly unpopular at home with an election coming up, and will he decide to do the right thing and stop the conflict? He's been making the right noises, but still sending lots and lots of bombs, so I guess it depends........... on a lot of things.

Unless Biden makes it happen, it probably won't.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Other than in your Trump-worship fantasies, Biden is not 'decidedly unpopular' with regard to the elections. Funny thing is that if your hero wins.....

 

Netanyahu is sure playing for time, on almost every angle possible. But the Hamas 'offer' as it is, is pretty much a non-starter. It is probably intended as such, more a bargaining step rather than a real expectation it would be accepted. It's pretty much routine, and in line with how past negotiations went.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree 100%. There is no reason for Hamas to accept less than a full deal, as they know the slaughter will just resume after any pause ends. It also needs to be unlimited aid and all the equipment needed to restore electricity, water, sewage, roads, and rebuild the infrastructure such as schools and hospitals, including ambulances, fire trucks etc.

I'd go further and demand the port is opened to the world and freedom of fishing boats.

 

Essential is the removal of all israeli military and the end of the blockade, with a passage between Gaza and the West Bank.

 

Pish posh on any "agreement" to establish two separate states. It needs to be a fact and enforced by the UN with NO US involvement whatsoever. The US has proven, IMO, that it is a bad actor when it comes to the Palestinians, and should be sidelined entirely.

IMO expecting the US to be neutral where israel is concerned is like a chicken asking the fox not to eat it.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

So you're not a Hamas fanboy, how?

Basically you're into accepting all of the Hamas conditions and demands, plus adding some extra stuff of your own.

Not a word about what Hamas and/or the Palestinians have to do, just the usual Israel Bad, USA Bad slogans.

 

Do tell how the UN can 'enforce' things. Considering your many posts complaining that it's useless, this should be interesting.

Or rather, amusing.

 

 

Edited February 8 by Morch

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

A limited deal is a limited deal. It will not solve this ongoing tragedy, which is costing the lives of many on both sides. I see little value in a limited deal if, when it has been completed, Israel will just renew its killing of virtually all Palestinians within its state's boundaries, and Hama will continue to terrorize Israelis. I believe a complete deal, which includes at least the agreement to establish two separate states, is necessary to stop all this killing.

What I believe is of the utmost importance to me. I don't disregard "facts." I treat them with skepticism sometimes. After all, we've all discovered that "facts" reported in the news so.metimes change after more scrutiny. I also don't necessarily perceive the same "reality" you do. That, IMO, is based on what I believe is your biases.

Hamas is using the hostages as leverage. I don't advocate taking hostages. I'm only suggesting how Hamas, after taking them, should consider using them to augment their position in negotiations. Israel is doing the same thing with their threat of continuing to kill Palestinians, both fighters and civilians and, yes, children.

 

Regarding the last paragraph, knowledge and reality say 'hi':

 

Sister of Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh treated in Israeli hospital

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/sister-of-hamas-chief-ismail-haniyeh-treated-in-israeli-hospital/ar-BB1hOMAa

 

Hamas chief Haniyeh's niece treated for cancer in Israeli hospital

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/haniyehs-relative-hospitalized-in-tel-aviv-669377

 

Hamas chief’s niece has been hospitalized in Israel for over a month — report

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-chiefs-niece-has-been-hospitalized-in-israel-for-over-a-month-report/

 

While Hamas leader is deciding on hostage deal, his niece gave birth in Israeli hospital

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bj44n81o6

 

To paraphrase from the Game of Thrones: "You know nothing, @WDSmart'.

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

"renew its killing of virtually all Palestinians within its state's boundaries"

 

Other than in your fact-light trolling posts - this is not real. There is no such. You're making things up, as usual. 20% of Israel's population are Arabs. Their numbers steadily grow. Same goes for the demographics of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

 

The point of this 'deal' is not to solve the entire conflict, but to address the current situation. You, from the comfort of your Thai home, might not see much value in it, and perhaps wouldn't mind the death and destruction to continue, until a permanent comprehensive solution is reached. Of course, it would also allow you to spew more lies, nonsense, as long as it lasts - so I can see the appeal.

 

You most obviously disregard facts, and reality. Over and over again. Your 'opinions' are based on nothing much. This was demonstrated numerous times by now - hence the troll label.

 

You are advocating Hamas's usage of the hostages, lending it legitimacy. You even go a step further than Hamas, doing so, by advocating holding on to the more vulnerable hostage longer. You are, as said, scum. And no, Israel is not doing the same thing - Israel did not start this, and there were no bombings or IDF troops in Gaza on 6/10. Israel is not targeting civilians. Just more of your standard issue false equivalency efforts. 

 

 

I disagree with everything you have posted above. 

I won't bother going through them one by one as I usually do. Most of them are insults aimed directly at me and therefore are .

The one "on-topic" area you did remark about was the limited, temporary "deal" which only focuses on the current situation, vs. a comprehensive, permanent deal, which would encompass the whole horrible situation. I encourage the latter since a temporary deal will be just that, temporary, and the violence coming from both sides will just keep repeating. 

[WDSmart]

28 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Regarding the last paragraph, knowledge and reality say 'hi':

 

Sister of Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh treated in Israeli hospital

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/sister-of-hamas-chief-ismail-haniyeh-treated-in-israeli-hospital/ar-BB1hOMAa

 

Hamas chief Haniyeh's niece treated for cancer in Israeli hospital

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/haniyehs-relative-hospitalized-in-tel-aviv-669377

 

Hamas chief’s niece has been hospitalized in Israel for over a month — report

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-chiefs-niece-has-been-hospitalized-in-israel-for-over-a-month-report/

 

While Hamas leader is deciding on hostage deal, his niece gave birth in Israeli hospital

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bj44n81o6

 

To paraphrase from the Game of Thrones: "You know nothing, @WDSmart'.

Again, this is a post that I consider .
Also, other than the first link to CNN, the three other links are to Israeli-associated news media. If you discount any information reported by Al Jazeera, you should reconsider putting your trust in these.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I disagree with everything you have posted above. 

I won't bother going through them one by one as I usually do. Most of them are insults aimed directly at me and therefore are .

The one "on-topic" area you did remark about was the limited, temporary "deal" which only focuses on the current situation, vs. a comprehensive, permanent deal, which would encompass the whole horrible situation. I encourage the latter since a temporary deal will be just that, temporary, and the violence coming from both sides will just keep repeating. 

 

You can 'disagree' all you like. I get it that you don't care much for facts, reality and so on, preferring your baseless 'opinions' instead. As for insults - I consider most of your comments and opinions insulting - to the intelligence of those partaking, to the concept of discussion, to the people hurt and killed on both sides and so on.

 

You won't 'bother' because you cannot address them. Same thing over and over again.

 

You're in favor of the killings, death and destruction to continue. You don't really care about the people who are effected.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Again, this is a post that I consider .
Also, other than the first link to CNN, the three other links are to Israeli-associated news media. If you discount any information reported by Al Jazeera, you should reconsider putting your trust in these.

 

You claimed both sides are the same. I demonstrate that they are not. If it was the same, Hamas leaders' family members living or undergoing medical treatment in Israel would have been arrested, used as leverage. Reality is different.

 

You can try to discredit sources all you like - they are all acceptable on this forum, and unlike AJ - are neither state-owned, nor shy away from criticism of government. Also, this was covered by other media sources, and these are just recent reports - it's been like that for a long time. You know nothing.

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You can 'disagree' all you like. I get it that you don't care much for facts, reality and so on, preferring your baseless 'opinions' instead. As for insults - I consider most of your comments and opinions insulting - to the intelligence of those partaking, to the concept of discussion, to the people hurt and killed on both sides and so on.

 

You won't 'bother' because you cannot address them. Same thing over and over again.

 

You're in favor of the killings, death and destruction to continue. You don't really care about the people who are effected.

"...who are effected."

This should be "affected."

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You claimed both sides are the same. I demonstrate that they are not. If it was the same, Hamas leaders' family members living or undergoing medical treatment in Israel would have been arrested, used as leverage. Reality is different.

 

You can try to discredit sources all you like - they are all acceptable on this forum, and unlike AJ - are neither state-owned, nor shy away from criticism of government. Also, this was covered by other media sources, and these are just recent reports - it's been like that for a long time. You know nothing.

"You know nothing." 

And I know enough to disagree with almost everything you post.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

"...who are effected."

This should be "affected."

 

And that major point scored, you must feel really good about yourself.

Now try and read (and understand) what's on that sign in the emoticon you like so much.

 

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

"You know nothing." 

And I know enough to disagree with almost everything you post.

 

That probably makes a great argument in your mind.

Notice you didn't actually address things, though.

[WDSmart]

54 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And that major point scored, you must feel really good about yourself.

Now try and read (and understand) what's on that sign in the emoticon you like so much.

 

 

That probably makes a great argument in your mind.

Notice you didn't actually address things, though.

 

55 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And that major point scored, you must feel really good about yourself.

Now try and read (and understand) what's on that sign in the emoticon you like so much.

 

That probably makes a great argument in your mind.

Notice you didn't actually address things, though.

Morch, I've already addressed the issues between us that are On Topic many, many times. Most of the issues you've addressed lately have been , and are concerning me personally. I'd love to discuss all these with you, but not on this particular Forum. We need to stay On Topic, or at least I know I do. 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

 

Morch, I've already addressed the issues between us that are On Topic many, many times. Most of the issues you've addressed lately have been , and are concerning me personally. I'd love to discuss all these with you, but not on this particular Forum. We need to stay On Topic, or at least I know I do. 

 

No.

You made specific claims just this morning. They were addressed, commented on. You continue deflecting. Claiming you have addressed whereas you did no such thing. The usual from you.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You reckon. IMO he's going to reject anything put forward, as IMO he knows it means the end of his coalition government, the end of his premiership and very possibly jail. Jehova could extend a finger pointing at him from above and shout "take the deal" and he'd reject it.

 

The elephant in the room is Biden, as he is looking decidedly unpopular at home with an election coming up, and will he decide to do the right thing and stop the conflict? He's been making the right noises, but still sending lots and lots of bombs, so I guess it depends........... on a lot of things.

Unless Biden makes it happen, it probably won't.

The main problem is that President Biden can't MAKE it happen.

 

Netanyahu IS the problem as he will reject ANY deal that involves Hamas.

 

He personally is probably the main and possibly the only problem to a settlement and an end to the slaughter and destruction on both sides.

 

If both he and the Hamas leader were no longer in the picture and moderate persons were in control on both sides, it would be so much easier and safer.

 

One possible way might be for the US and probably Iran to stop funneling weapons and money to each side, and for each of them to say to both Hamas and Israel, enough is enough.

 

If there are ANY more attacks from either side, retribution will be swift and painful.

 

I don't think that is possible though.

[WDSmart]

20 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No.

You made specific claims just this morning. They were addressed, commented on. You continue deflecting. Claiming you have addressed whereas you did no such thing. The usual from you.

@Morch, Okay, here is my take on the salient points that are On Topic here in this Forum:

1. Both sides want the same thing: complete control of the land that makes up the state now called Israel.

2. Although this conflict has been going on for a long, long time, recently, since the terrorist attacks on Oct 7 and the follow-on, indiscriminate bombing, the two sides are now at a kind of a stalemate as far as reaching any kind of agreement as to how to stop all this carnage.
3. One side has taken hostages and is using their release as leverage in the negotiations, and the other side has a greatly superior military force and is using the prospects of a ceasefire as leverage in the negotiations.
4. If the side with the hostages agrees to a temporary solution, they will release the hostages, and then their leverage will be gone. The other side can institute a temporary ceasefire but can renew their military operations at any time.
5. Any permanent solution should include the return of all hostages, a permanent ceasefire, rebuilding the damaged areas, and a two-state solution.

I'll discuss all or any of these with you if you wish.