WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 19 hours ago, Yellowtail said: Do you agree that Hamas hiding in hospitals are committing war crimes? I don't know for sure that any Hamas fighters are hiding in hospitals, but I wouldn't say there are none. But, no, IMO, Hamas fighters who might be hiding in hospitals are not committing war crimes unless they are guarding hostages or using the hospital as a base for their military operations. The IDF is committing a war crime when it attacks a hospital unless the hospital is being used as a base for its adversary or to rescue hostages. They would have to know that there are hostages there first, not just go in searching for them. These are my interpretations of international law I looked up in various places online. Edited February 16 by WDSmart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, WDSmart said: I don't know for sure that any Hamas fighters are hiding in hospitals, but I wouldn't say there are none. But, no, IMO, Hamas fighters who might be hiding in hospitals are not committing war crimes unless they are guarding hostages or using the hospital as a base for their military operations. The IDF is committing a war crime when it attacks a hospital unless the hospital is being used as a base for its adversary or to rescue hostages. They would have to know that there are hostages there first, not just go in searching for them. These are my interpretations of international law I looked up in various places online. Well they've already caught some terrorists in there and your interpretation is wrong, listen to the recording between IDF and the hospital director, the entry by IDF was indeed according to international law. LISTEN: A conversation between head of GazaCLA and the hospital manager, made as part of the effort to evacuate the IDPs from the hospital in order to minimize harm to non-combatants. https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1758176054022214134 Gaza hospitals as you should know have form: Gaza hospital chief admits to being Hamas commander, using clinic as military base The head of a Gaza hospital has admitted to being a senior Hamas commander — and detailed how the terror group transformed the medical site into an operational hub that once housed a kidnapped Israeli soldier. Ahmad Kahlot, director of Kamal Adwan Hospital in Jabaliya, made his taped confession to the Israeli security service Shin Bet after his arrest during last week’s raid on the facility in northern Gaza. https://nypost.com/2023/12/19/news/gaza-hospital-chief-admits-to-being-hamas-commander/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 UN still complaining of starvation? Israel is facilitating aid into Gaza quicker than the UN can distribute it. This is the content of 500 trucks on Gaza’s side of Kerem Shalom, AFTER Israeli inspection, waiting to be picked up by @UN agencies. It’s day 3 that aid is waiting for the @UN to collect it. Israel slams UN on aid to Gaza, says it needs to ‘scale up operations’ The Defense Ministry’s liaison unit to the Palestinians chastised the United Nations on Thursday for not keeping up with humanitarian aid operations in the Gaza Strip. Since the beginning of the war, aid groups have charged that they are not receiving enough supplies to keep up with the demands of Gazans in the embattled enclave. But the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) posted photos on X of what it said is “the content of 500 trucks of humanitarian aid on the Gazan side of Kerem Shalom, AFTER Israeli inspection, waiting to be picked up and distributed by UN orgs. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-slams-un-on-aid-to-gaza-says-it-needs-to-scale-up-operations 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Well they've already caught some terrorists in there and your interpretation is wrong, listen to the recording between IDF and the hospital director, the entry by IDF was indeed according to international law. LISTEN: A conversation between head of GazaCLA and the hospital manager, made as part of the effort to evacuate the IDPs from the hospital in order to minimize harm to non-combatants. https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1758176054022214134 Gaza hospitals as you should know have form: Gaza hospital chief admits to being Hamas commander, using clinic as military base The head of a Gaza hospital has admitted to being a senior Hamas commander — and detailed how the terror group transformed the medical site into an operational hub that once housed a kidnapped Israeli soldier. Ahmad Kahlot, director of Kamal Adwan Hospital in Jabaliya, made his taped confession to the Israeli security service Shin Bet after his arrest during last week’s raid on the facility in northern Gaza. https://nypost.com/2023/12/19/news/gaza-hospital-chief-admits-to-being-hamas-commander/ "Well they've already caught some terrorists in there..." The last I heard on CNN (in the last hour), IDF is reported to have said it has "detained" three people, but there is no declaration that they are terrorists. I assume they are suspected of that, but that has not been confirmed yet. CNN did say that IDF says it found no hostages, alive or dead, but that they are still conducting their searches. Edited February 16 by WDSmart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, WDSmart said: "Well they've already caught some terrorists in there..." The last I heard on CNN (in the last hour), IDF is reported to have said it has "detained" three people, but there is no declaration that they are terrorists. I assume they are suspected of that, but that has not been confirmed yet. CNN did say that IDF says it found no hostages, alive or dead, but that they are still conducting their searches. https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1758241552701227435 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, WDSmart said: . The IDF is committing a war crime when it attacks a hospital unless the hospital is being used as a base for its adversary or to rescue hostages. They would have to know that there are hostages there first, not just go in searching for them. Are you making this up as you go along ? The hospital wouldn't need to be being used as a base , if one enemy soldier fires one shot from a hospital, that hospital then becomes a legitimate target for reprisals . It would nt be a war crime for soldier to walk into a building looking for people being held hostage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted February 16 Popular Post Share Posted February 16 6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: This talk of peacekeepers reminds me of a Tom Clancy book I read many years ago, where an israeli soldier just shot ONE Palestinian and the UN sent a peacekeeping force. I don't remember the book title but was Clancy ever wrong on that! The UN has been exposed as useless and hostage to any member with a veto. I can't see it surviving in the same corrupt manner in the future. Hopefully all the other members demand an end to the veto. That was a fictional book . Like , a made up story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sum_of_All_Fears 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 29 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Are you making this up as you go along ? The hospital wouldn't need to be being used as a base , if one enemy soldier fires one shot from a hospital, that hospital then becomes a legitimate target for reprisals . It would nt be a war crime for soldier to walk into a building looking for people being held hostage Here is my main source of the interpretation of the rules that I previously posted. The protection of hospitals during armed conflicts: What the law says | ICRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 43 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1758241552701227435 These "terrorists" did not hold Israeli hostages in the hospital, at least from the last report I heard. And, were these "terrorists" hiding behind innocent civilians, or were they patients at the hospital, perhaps because they had been injured by the bombings or wounded? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 7 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Here is my main source of the interpretation of the rules that I previously posted. The protection of hospitals during armed conflicts: What the law says | ICRC Yes, the link says that Hospitals lose their protected rights if the Hospital engages in acts that harm the enemy , you claimed that Hospitals lose their protected rights if the enemy uses the hospital as a base . Two different things 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, WDSmart said: These "terrorists" did not hold Israeli hostages in the hospital, at least from the last report I heard. And, were these "terrorists" hiding behind innocent civilians, or were they patients at the hospital, perhaps because they had been injured by the bombings or wounded? So all bases covered then, requirements met and the hospital lost its status. Over 20 terrorists caught, dozens more suspects being interviewed, weapons caches found. Interviews with suspects confirm hostages were there. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-spokesperson-says-troops-detain-dozens-of-terror-suspects-at-khan-younis-hospital/ https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1758427657899839737 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 22 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Yes, the link says that Hospitals lose their protected rights if the Hospital engages in acts that harm the enemy , you claimed that Hospitals lose their protected rights if the enemy uses the hospital as a base . Two different things Same-same... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid. Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid - BBC News 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, WDSmart said: Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid. Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid - BBC News Gazans must be sick of those Hamas terrorist's spoiling everything IDF says more than 20 terrorists who took part in Oct. 7 massacres arrested in Khan Younis hospital The Israel Defense forces say that troops continue to carry out searches in the Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis and have so far apprehended more than 20 terrorists who took part in the October 7 massacres. Forces from the elite Maglan and naval commando unit also found mortars, grenades and other weaponry belonging to Hamas inside the medical facility, the IDF says. In addition, dozens of suspects have been taken for questioning. The military says it will “continue to operate in accordance with international law against the Hamas terror group, which has systematically operated from within hospitals and other civilian infrastructures.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-more-than-20-terrorists-who-took-part-in-oct-7-massacres-arrested-in-khan-younis-hospital/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 8 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid. Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid - BBC News Hamas terrorists were hiding in the Hospital , those Hamas terrorists are to blame for the hospital being involved in the war 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 14 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Hamas terrorists were hiding in the Hospital , those Hamas terrorists are to blame for the hospital being involved in the war Yeah, It's like IDF is constantly saying, "Hamas made me do it!" I think most of Israel's former allies have had enough of that kind of excuse. (37) More than 60 people killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah, Palestine Red Crescent Society says (cnn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Yeah, It's like IDF is constantly saying, "Hamas made me do it!" I think most of Israel's former allies have had enough of that kind of excuse. (37) More than 60 people killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah, Palestine Red Crescent Society says (cnn.com) No Gazans are definitely sick of it. Al Jazeera reporter cuts away from Gaza hospital patient revealing how Hamas hiding among the sick A clip from a recent Al Jazeera broadcast has gone viral, showing the Qatari network’s correspondent interviewing a patient at a Gaza hospital who complains in front of the camera that Hamas fighters are hiding among the sick in the medical center. Before the elderly patient can continue speaking, the Al Jazeera correspondent moves away so that the message cannot continue to be heard on air. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/al-jazeera-reporter-cuts-away-from-gaza-hospital-patient-revealing-how-hamas-hiding-among-the-sick/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 5 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Yeah, It's like IDF is constantly saying, "Hamas made me do it!" I think most of Israel's former allies have had enough of that kind of excuse. (37) More than 60 people killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah, Palestine Red Crescent Society says (cnn.com) I said it, not the IDF . If Hamas terrorists hide in hospitals , then the IDF have every right to go into hospitals and try to locate them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 16 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: I said it, not the IDF . If Hamas terrorists hide in hospitals , then the IDF have every right to go into hospitals and try to locate them I was using that "Hamas made me do it!" rhetorically. But that's exactly what the IDF is doing. Here's my bottom line on this subject... - On Oct 7, Hamas committed war crimes by killing, maiming, and raping civilians and taking hostages. - Hamas is still committing war crimes by not returning the hostages. These facts do not give Israel the right to also commit war crimes, which they have, IMO, done all during their destruction of northern Gaza, and now their invasion of Nasser Hospital, and soon by their planned ground invasion of Rafah. Israel is already charged with war crimes and genocide in a case being adjudicated by the ICJ, and the ICJ has ordered them to come up with a method to reduce the number of civilian casualties while they are working on the case. Israel is receiving more criticism and is losing the support of the UN and most of its allies, including the USA, because of their barbaric activities. They should sit down and engage with Hamas/Palestine to come up with a solution to all this that doesn't invoice killing hundreds of thousands more Palestinian civilians. That's my bottom line... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloquent pilgrim Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 4 hours ago, WDSmart said: I don't know for sure that any Hamas fighters are hiding in hospitals, but I wouldn't say there are none. But, no, IMO, Hamas fighters who might be hiding in hospitals are not committing war crimes unless they are guarding hostages or using the hospital as a base for their military operations. The IDF is committing a war crime when it attacks a hospital unless the hospital is being used as a base for its adversary or to rescue hostages. They would have to know that there are hostages there first, not just go in searching for them. These are my interpretations of international law I looked up in various places online. This is the most disingenuous comment that you have made to date, and you’ve posted some crackers in the last few days, as you have been struggling to hide both your dishonesty, and your virulent hatred for Israel and Israelis. “But, no, IMO, Hamas fighters who might be hiding in hospitals are not committing war crimes unless they are guarding hostages or using the hospital as a base for their military operations” …….. what on earth do you think armed Hamas fighters are doing hiding in hospitals, if they are not using it as a base from which to attack IDF soldiers ? …….ICRC Rule 28. Medical units exclusively assigned to medical purposes must be respected and protected in all circumstances. They lose their protection if they are being used, outside their humanitarian function, to commit acts harmful to the enemy. “The IDF is committing a war crime when it attacks a hospital unless the hospital is being used as a base for its adversary or to rescue hostages” …. which is exactly what Hamas fighters are using the hospital for. Your antisemitism, hatred, and unwavering support for Hamas, is causing you to make a fool of yourself. An intelligent man reduced to continually distorting the truth because of his hatred …. very sad, but a stark reminder to us all of the power of hatred. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wobblybob Posted February 16 Popular Post Share Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I was using that "Hamas made me do it!" rhetorically. But that's exactly what the IDF is doing. Here's my bottom line on this subject... - On Oct 7, Hamas committed war crimes by killing, maiming, and raping civilians and taking hostages. - Hamas is still committing war crimes by not returning the hostages. These facts do not give Israel the right to also commit war crimes, which they have, IMO, done all during their destruction of northern Gaza, and now their invasion of Nasser Hospital, and soon by their planned ground invasion of Rafah. Israel is already charged with war crimes and genocide in a case being adjudicated by the ICJ, and the ICJ has ordered them to come up with a method to reduce the number of civilian casualties while they are working on the case. Israel is receiving more criticism and is losing the support of the UN and most of its allies, including the USA, because of their barbaric activities. They should sit down and engage with Hamas/Palestine to come up with a solution to all this that doesn't invoice killing hundreds of thousands more Palestinian civilians. That's my bottom line... Your bottom line is ridiculously naive, do you honestly think that if Israel laid their weapons down tomorrow that the Palestian terrorists would stop wanting to wipe the Israelis from this Earth. Let's forget about the hostages that are getting abused on a daily basis eh, let's make the Palestinians the victims here and as for Israel losing support from the UN, nobody takes the UN seriously anymore, they have proven what a shower of terrorist loving wastrels they really are! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 32 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Israel is already charged with war crimes and genocide in a case being adjudicated by the ICJ, That isn't quite true, South Africa accused Israel of war crimes and the ICJ didn't find Israel guilty of war crimes . Once again , you aren't being truthful and honest 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bkk Brian Posted February 16 Popular Post Share Posted February 16 35 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I was using that "Hamas made me do it!" rhetorically. But that's exactly what the IDF is doing. Here's my bottom line on this subject... - On Oct 7, Hamas committed war crimes by killing, maiming, and raping civilians and taking hostages. - Hamas is still committing war crimes by not returning the hostages. These facts do not give Israel the right to also commit war crimes, which they have, IMO, done all during their destruction of northern Gaza, and now their invasion of Nasser Hospital, and soon by their planned ground invasion of Rafah. Israel is already charged with war crimes and genocide in a case being adjudicated by the ICJ, and the ICJ has ordered them to come up with a method to reduce the number of civilian casualties while they are working on the case. Israel is receiving more criticism and is losing the support of the UN and most of its allies, including the USA, because of their barbaric activities. They should sit down and engage with Hamas/Palestine to come up with a solution to all this that doesn't invoice killing hundreds of thousands more Palestinian civilians. That's my bottom line... Just deflection from the hospital being full of Hamas and the IDF being justified in going in to get them. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted February 16 Popular Post Share Posted February 16 40 minutes ago, WDSmart said: I was using that "Hamas made me do it!" rhetorically. But that's exactly what the IDF is doing. Well yes, of course and its true . If Hamas hide in a hospital then Hamas hiding in a hospital is the reason why the IDF go into that hospital and so Hamas was the reason why the IDF went into the hospital 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloquent pilgrim Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, WDSmart said: Israel is receiving more criticism and is losing the support of the UN Ha Ha Ha , where have you been for the last 30 years; Israel has never had the support of the UN. The UN are a corrupt, antisemitic dinosaur; along with their now completely discredited Hamas fan club affiliate, UNRWA. They are rendered utterly pointless by the veto power of Russia and China, and just when the world thought that they couldn’t lose any more credibility, they appointed Ali Bahreini, Ambassador of the Islamic Republic of Iran and Permanent Representative to the United Nations, to chair the 2023 United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) Social Forum. The UN, you’ll have to do a lot better than citing them. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said: This is the most disingenuous comment that you have made to date, and you’ve posted some crackers in the last few days, as you have been struggling to hide both your dishonesty, and your virulent hatred for Israel and Israelis. “But, no, IMO, Hamas fighters who might be hiding in hospitals are not committing war crimes unless they are guarding hostages or using the hospital as a base for their military operations” …….. what on earth do you think armed Hamas fighters are doing hiding in hospitals, if they are not using it as a base from which to attack IDF soldiers ? …….ICRC Rule 28. Medical units exclusively assigned to medical purposes must be respected and protected in all circumstances. They lose their protection if they are being used, outside their humanitarian function, to commit acts harmful to the enemy. “The IDF is committing a war crime when it attacks a hospital unless the hospital is being used as a base for its adversary or to rescue hostages” …. which is exactly what Hamas fighters are using the hospital for. Your antisemitism, hatred, and unwavering support for Hamas, is causing you to make a fool of yourself. An intelligent man reduced to continually distorting the truth because of his hatred …. very sad, but a stark reminder to us all of the power of hatred. I do hate both Hamas and Zionists. I do not hate Palestinians or Israelis. I hate what's happening here, and I hate it when others have so much bias that they can't see both sides in this horrible conflict are to blame, not just one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: That isn't quite true, South Africa accused Israel of war crimes and the ICJ didn't find Israel guilty of war crimes . Once again , you aren't being truthful and honest South Africa has accused Israel of genocide, which is a war crime. The ICJ has not issued its final ruling yet, and that won't come for a long time. The ICJ did order Israel to respond in writing as to how they would try to reduce the killing of civilians in Gaza. As far as I know, they have not done that yet, although I did read something about what the IDF said about how they will provide options for civilians to evacuate Rafah. I don't think this, however, satisfies the ICJ request. I am being truthful and honest. You just refuse to believe anything that doesn't support your beliefs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: Just deflection from the hospital being full of Hamas and the IDF being justified in going in to get them. "...being full of Hamas"? - does 3 or even 20 suspected Hamas fighters constitute "being full"? - who says the people captured were Hamas? The IDF? How would they know? Do they have a roster of those who are Hamas? And, if so, who made that up? - were these people conducting harmful actions there, or were they just hiding, or were they patients? - and where are all the hostages, alive or dead, that the IDF used as a justification for violating this, and all the other hospitals that the IDF has raided, "protected" status? Israel’s raid on a Khan Younis hospital shows nowhere in Gaza is safe - Vox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloquent pilgrim Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, WDSmart said: and I hate it when others have so much bias that they can't see both sides The irony of you, of all people, saying that, is quite breathtaking …. I might have to open a bottle of Montepulciano d’Abruzzo earlier than usual 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, WDSmart said: "...being full of Hamas"? - does 3 or even 20 suspected Hamas fighters constitute "being full"? - who says the people captured were Hamas? The IDF? How would they know? Do they have a roster of those who are Hamas? And, if so, who made that up? - were these people conducting harmful actions there, or were they just hiding, or were they patients? - and where are all the hostages, alive or dead, that the IDF used as a justification for violating this, and all the other hospitals that the IDF has raided, "protected" status? Israel’s raid on a Khan Younis hospital shows nowhere in Gaza is safe - Vox Oh no.....lol Here's one of those hostages................ Freed Israeli hostage says she endured ‘psychological warfare’ during 50 days of Hamas captivity After 16 days, Asher and her daughters were taken from the apartment to what she described as a “so-called” hospital in the southern Gaza city of Khan Younis. Why “so-called”? Because a hospital is “a place that is supposed to take care of people, but instead it was taken over by Hamas and they used it to hide hostages,” Asher said. The Israeli military has repeatedly said Hamas hides terrorist infrastructure in and around civilian institutions in Gaza, such as hospitals – a claim denied by the militant group. The US has said that Hamas used the Al-Shifa Hospital, the largest in Gaza, as a command center and a place to hold hostages. Asher did not say where she was held. Asher was joined by other hostages in the hospital complex – the first captives she had met since being taken into Gaza. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/04/middleeast/israel-hostage-doron-katz-asher-interview-hamas-gaza-intl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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