Opinion: The Case Against Israel Rests on Lies

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

But you didn't say that. You just deflected the question to a statement implying "He hit me first!"

I agree Hamas conducted a horrific terrorist attack on Oct 7. But, what I don't agree with is that it gives Israel the right to also commit horrific, terrorist-like attacks on Gaza in retaliation. That's the main difference we have. I guess you could reduce it down to the old adage, "Two wrongs don't make a right." 

It gives Israel every right to rid this world of these disgusting creatures, Israel is defending itself, as long as we have Hamas they will continue to murder Israelis.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

It gives Israel every right to rid this world of these disgusting creatures, Israel is defending itself, as long as we have Hamas they will continue to murder Israelis.

 

By those disgusting creatures I guess you mean all the women and children who were killed?

 

If a Palestinian militant shot your son for throwing stones would you want revenge?

 

Last year, 2022, was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank in 15 years, and 2023 is on track to meet or exceed 2022 levels. Israeli forces had killed at least 34 Palestinian children in the West Bank as of August 22. Human Rights Watch investigated four fatal shootings of Palestinian children by Israeli forces between November 2022 and March 2023.

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

 

Edited February 25 by ozimoron

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I've said time and time again that Hamas are terrorists. I'm sure they think of themselves as "freedom fighters." I think Hamas represents a small percentage of the Palestinian people, just like Zionists represent only a small percentage of Israelis. What I've constantly said is I hope Palestinians and Israelis (not Hamas and Zionists) can eventually come together to reach an agreement that would divide the land up so they both could live in peace. But, as long as they are led by these right-wing, nationalistic, militant factions, that will not happen, or be very, very hard to do. 

More lies, you have called Hamas "freedom fighters"

You 'think' that "Hamas represents a small percentage of Palestinian people" we that's cleared that up then.🥴

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

By those disgusting creatures I guess you mean all the women and children who were killed?

 

If a Palestinian militant shot your son for throwing stones would you want revenge?

 

You know exactly who I mean, stop trying to be Smart, one is enough!

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

By those disgusting creatures I guess you mean all the women and children who were killed?

 

If a Palestinian militant shot your son for throwing stones would you want revenge?

 

Last year, 2022, was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank in 15 years, and 2023 is on track to meet or exceed 2022 levels. Israeli forces had killed at least 34 Palestinian children in the West Bank as of August 22. Human Rights Watch investigated four fatal shootings of Palestinian children by Israeli forces between November 2022 and March 2023.

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

 

Making things up again then

 

11 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

It gives Israel every right to rid this world of these disgusting creatures, Israel is defending itself, as long as we have Hamas they will continue to murder Israelis.

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You know exactly who I mean, stop trying to be Smart, one is enough!

 

I'm totally sick of the "this war started on Oct 7" mantra and the delusion that it's all Hamas' fault and that they attacked out of the blue with no history.

[WDSmart]

@Wobblybob, and every Palestinian civilian (human shield) that the IDF kills creates 10s or even 100s more Palestinians that now hate Israelis. IDF cannot wipe out Hamas. In trying to do so, they will only create future ones.

[Wobblybob]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

I'm totally sick of the "this war started on Oct 7" mantra and the delusion that it's all Hamas' fault and that they attacked out of the blue with no history.

Get used to it, we're not going to stop telling the truth just to please you!

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

@Wobblybob, and every Palestinian civilian (human shield) that the IDF kills creates 10s or even 100s more Palestinians that now hate Israelis. IDF cannot wipe out Hamas. In trying to do so, they will only create future ones.

Your beef is/or should be with Hamas and not Israel who are simply safe guarding against any future horrific attacks on their citizens. 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

@Wobblybob, and every Palestinian civilian (human shield) that the IDF kills creates 10s or even 100s more Palestinians that now hate Israelis. IDF cannot wipe out Hamas. In trying to do so, they will only create future ones.

Not true, try again. Gazans are getting sick of Hamas

 

https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1760677197722091795

 

[transam]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

I'm totally sick of the "this war started on Oct 7" mantra and the delusion that it's all Hamas' fault and that they attacked out of the blue with no history.

Who cares how sick and tired you are about hearing Oct 7 stuff. .....Nobody.......🥴

 

You just want to forget/ignore who lit the touch paper, for the simple reason, you are biased..

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

Your beef is/or should be with Hamas and not Israel who are simply safe guarding against any future horrific attacks on their citizens. 

If Israel (and Palestine) want to safeguard against any future horrific attacks on their citizens, they should get rid of their extremist leaders (Hamas and Zionists), implement a permanent ceasefire and the return of all hostages (conditional on each other), and start negotiating a two-state solution.

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

If Israel (and Palestine) want to safeguard against any future horrific attacks on their citizens, they should get rid of their extremist leaders (Hamas and Zionists), implement a permanent ceasefire and the return of all hostages (conditional on each other), and start negotiating a two-state solution.

With Israel it is work in progress, Hamas will be destroyed. 

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not true, try again. Gazans are getting sick of Hamas

 

https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1760677197722091795

 

Israelis are getting sick of Zionists... 
Half a million Israelis join latest protest against Netanyahu’s judicial overhaul, organizers say | CNN

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

NO. You are claiming that I said that. I did not say that at at all.

 

I simply responded to your post.

 

If you are going to quote me, then please quote the entire post I responded to.

I was not quoting you, I was asking you a question. Which you presumably don't want to answer.

[MangoKorat]

At the beginning of the current conflict Antonio Guterres commented that the Hamas attack on 7 October did not happen in a vacuum.  He was simply meaning that events and actions taken by Israel had led to that Hamas attack. He was not supporting Hamas in any way but he was taken wildly out of context.

 

What Guterres stated was a fact. Rather than try and create peace in the region, over the last few years Israel seems to have been doing all it can to escalate the situation, maybe I should say that Netanyahu and his right wing group are responsible for that.

 

I support neither the Israelis or the Palestinians they both need to accept that they each exist and find a way to live peacefully - nobody is winning in this situation.  Like a pair of kids - they need their heads banging together.

 

However, one of the reasons for the Hamas attacks is Israel's land grabs - stealing land in the West Bank that they refer to as settlements.  Amazingly, against the backdrop of the 7 October attack and the horrific conflict it sparked - Netanyahu is at it again by announcing MORE SETTLEMENTS in the West Bank.

 

The murderous actions of Hamas on 7 October are inexcusable but I wonder how any of us would react if we were continually kicked out of our homes and had our land stolen?  How would we react if the people we are up against are well armed and equiped whilst we have very few conventional methods with which to defend ourselves.

 

I despise Hamas and any other extremist group but I also despise the actions of Netanyahu in both stealing land and collectively punishing the Palestinian people for the actions of Hamas.

 

I am both disappointed and ashamed at my country's (UK) support for Israel and refusal to clearly tell them to ceasefire.

Edited February 25 by MangoKorat

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

If Israel (and Palestine) want to safeguard against any future horrific attacks on their citizens, they should get rid of their extremist leaders (Hamas and Zionists), implement a permanent ceasefire and the return of all hostages (conditional on each other), and start negotiating a two-state solution.

With Israel it is work in progress, Hamas will be destroyed. 

It is also a work in progress within Israel...

[xtrnuno41]

Lots of bla bla bla.

Fact, we are humans.

What humans do? They form groups. What groups do? They fight each other.

Always been like that and will always be. It will never, ever change.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Israelis are getting sick of Zionists... 
Half a million Israelis join latest protest against Netanyahu’s judicial overhaul, organizers say | CNN

That link is not about the war, pure deflection:

 

“People are dying every minute,” said a 56-year-old businessman from Gaza. “Hamas is the one that dragged us into this terrible vortex.”

https://archive.ph/AuDjR

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gazans-are-starting-to-blame-hamas-for-wartime-suffering-066256b0

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

It is also a work in progress within Israel...

Have we gone into cypher mode?

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

At the beginning of the current conflict Antonio Guterres commented that the Hamas attack on 7 October did not happen in a vacuum.  He was simply meaning that events and actions taken by Israel had led to that Hamas

attack. He was not supporting Hamas in any way but he was taken wildly out of context.

 

What Guterres stated was a fact. Rather than try and create peace in the region, over the last few years Israel seems to have been doing all it can to escalate the situation, maybe I should say that Netanyahu and his right wing group are responsible for that.

 

I support neither the Israelis or the Palestinians they both need to accept that they each exist and find a way to live peacefully - nobody is winning in this situation.  Like a pair of kids - they need their heads banging together.

 

However, one of the reasons for the Hamas attacks is Israel's land grabs - stealing land in the West Bank that they refer to as settlements.  Amazingly, against the backdrop of the 7 October attack and the horrific conflict it sparked - Netanyahu is at it again by announcing MORE SETTLEMENTS in the West Bank.

 

The murderous actions of Hamas on 7 October are inexcusable but I wonder how any of us would react if we were continually kicked out of our homes and had our land stolen?  How would we react if the people we are up against are well armed and equiped whilst we have very few conventional methods with which to defend ourselves.

 

I despise Hamas and any other extremist group but I also despise the actions of Netanyahu in both stealing land and collectively punishing the Palestinian people for the actions of Hamas.

 

I am both disappointed and ashamed at my country's (UK) support for Israel and refusal to clearly tell them to ceasefire.

The following day he said this:

 

"But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas."

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

At the beginning of the current conflict Antonio Guterres commented that the Hamas attack on 7 October did not happen in a vacuum.  He was simply meaning that events and actions taken by Israel had led to that Hamas

attack. He was not supporting Hamas in any way but he was taken wildly out of context.

 

What Guterres stated was a fact. Rather than try and create peace in the region, over the last few years Israel seems to have been doing all it can to escalate the situation, maybe I should say that Netanyahu and his right wing group are responsible for that.

 

I support neither the Israelis or the Palestinians they both need to accept that they each exist and find a way to live peacefully - nobody is winning in this situation.  Like a pair of kids - they need their heads banging together.

 

However, one of the reasons for the Hamas attacks is Israel's land grabs - stealing land in the West Bank that they refer to as settlements.  Amazingly, against the backdrop of the 7 October attack and the horrific conflict it sparked - Netanyahu is at it again by announcing MORE SETTLEMENTS in the West Bank.

 

The murderous actions of Hamas on 7 October are inexcusable but I wonder how any of us would react if we were continually kicked out of our homes and had our land stolen?  How would we react if the people we are up against are well armed and equiped whilst we have very few conventional methods with which to defend ourselves.

 

I despise Hamas and any other extremist group but I also despise the actions of Netanyahu in both stealing land and collectively punishing the Palestinian people for the actions of Hamas.

 

I am both disappointed and ashamed at my country's (UK) support for Israel and refusal to clearly tell them to ceasefire.

I agree with EVERYTHING you've said above, and I would only change one thing. I'd change the "(UK}" in the last line to "(USA)."

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Lots of bla bla bla.

Fact, we are humans.

What humans do? They form groups. What groups do? They fight each other.

Always been like that and will always be. It will never, ever change.

 

Complete rubbish. After years oif the holocaust, Germans are very contrite and are now among Israel's best friends. Same goes for Japan. The problem occurs when the extreme right wing gain control of a country.

 

Yitzhak Rabin signed a peace treaty with the Palestinians, how did that work out for him?

Edited February 25 by ozimoron

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Have we gone into cypher mode?

By that, I mean the Israeli people are starting to protest against the Netanyahu government.

[transam]

Just now, WDSmart said:

By that, I mean the Israeli people are starting to protest against the Netanyahu government.

If the Israeli army had not made headway, you would not hear a peep, those you say are protesting would be firmly behind the sofa............

[Wobblybob]

Just now, WDSmart said:

By that, I mean the Israeli people are starting to protest against the Netanyahu government.

That does not negate the terrible actions of Hamas. You always get appeasers in any country, are they a deciding factor, I would imagine not.

[Brickleberry]

On 2/24/2024 at 1:53 PM, transam said:

There is always history behind everything, but you have a distinct problem about folk who take care of aggressors.

Have read up on how the Japanese and Germans HAD to be dealt with to stop their aggression....😬

 

You should read up on who started this conflict 100 years ago.... Zionists and the British are to blame.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

By that, I mean the Israeli people are starting to protest against the Netanyahu government.

That's not to do with the war though. Do you want to talk internal Israeli politics? Another topic, not this one

[Nick Carter icp]

10 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

At the beginning of the current conflict Antonio Guterres commented that the Hamas attack on 7 October did not happen in a vacuum.  He was simply meaning that events and actions taken by Israel had led to that Hamas

attack. He was not supporting Hamas in any way but he was taken wildly out of context.

 

What Guterres stated was a fact. Rather than try and create peace in the region, over the last few years Israel seems to have been doing all it can to escalate the situation, maybe I should say that Netanyahu and his right wing group are responsible for that.

 

I support neither the Israelis or the Palestinians they both need to accept that they each exist and find a way to live peacefully - nobody is winning in this situation.  Like a pair of kids - they need their heads banging together.

 

However, one of the reasons for the Hamas attacks is Israel's land grabs - stealing land in the West Bank that they refer to as settlements.  Amazingly, against the backdrop of the 7 October attack and the horrific conflict it sparked - Netanyahu is at it again by announcing MORE SETTLEMENTS in the West Bank.

 

The murderous actions of Hamas on 7 October are inexcusable but I wonder how any of us would react if we were continually kicked out of our homes and had our land stolen?  How would we react if the people we are up against are well armed and equiped whilst we have very few conventional methods with which to defend ourselves.

 

I despise Hamas and any other extremist group but I also despise the actions of Netanyahu in both stealing land and collectively punishing the Palestinian people for the actions of Hamas.

 

I am both disappointed and ashamed at my country's (UK) support for Israel and refusal to clearly tell them to ceasefire.

 

   Israel doesn't comply with the U.Ks requests or demands , that's the your old colonialist  attitude showing  when the U.K colonised much of the World and told them what to do .

   Th U.K doesn't rule the World anymore and Israel doesn't do what the UK tells it to do .

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

You should read up on who started this conflict 100 years ago.... Zionists and the British are to blame.

Oh gawd, here's the off topic history lessons coming