Driving the wrong way on a motorbike, worst case scenario

[NorthernRyland]

There's so many U-turns here I don't blame people sometimes when they go some small distance against traffic on a motorbike but what gets me is how fast they still insist on driving. This 26 year old in Korat gets destroyed doing this and serves as a warning. Even while driving the wrong direction this could have easily been avoided if he was going slow enough. Shows a total disregard for the other drivers also which have to encounter people like this. Police of course are no where to be found until they need to scrap your body off the road. RIP I guess.

 

 

[Pique Dard]

...not only was he driving in the forbidden direction, but he was also driving at high speed. who's to blame if he doesn't make it?

[scubascuba3]

I've started going through reds and turning left to avoid them, too much time wasted at traffic lights and long u turns

[FritsSikkink]

Driving against traffic is moronic at any speed.

[KhunLA]

Not sure if it still is, but ... Driving against traffic on shoulder was legal .. IF SAFE .. which gave me a chuckle when I read it.   I guess if you have an oops, they deem it wasnt' 'safe' and cite you for reckless driving.

 

And yes, I also drive against traffic when 'safe'   Actually did it twice yesterday on the MB.  Short distance to the U-turn, instead of the proper U-turn >1 km away, at a traffic signal.

 

They do have a couple signs ... "Do NOT drive against traffic" ... at a few choice locations, as many people do there, and not the safest place to do.   I've seen people cited at those locations.   Mainly since there is no shoulder, and they are actually driving in the slow or parking lane.  Potential head on, if having an oops.

[Agusts]

Most Thai bike riders think it is perfectly okay to ride against traffic on road shoulders, I've seen police car go by and not bat an eye, so I assume this is okay here and just need to be aware of them, very dangerous of course...

 

The problem is they do it very fast and without attention, and think they have the right of way...!?!?!?

 

In this video for example, the car obviously didn't see the bike, but the bike rider must have seen the car but he actually thought he HAS the right of way, and expected the car to stop and let him pass...!!!! 🥴, Big mistake... 🙄😔

[NE1]

My sympathy is with the drivers of the vehicles he damaged. 

I hope the family foot the bill for repairs.

[KannikaP]

9 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

There's so many U-turns here I don't blame people sometimes when they go some small distance against traffic on a motorbike but what gets me is how fast they still insist on driving. This 26 year old in Korat gets destroyed doing this and serves as a warning. Even while driving the wrong direction this could have easily been avoided if he was going slow enough. Shows a total disregard for the other drivers also which have to encounter people like this. Police of course are no where to be found until they need to scrap your body off the road. RIP I guess.

 

 

Why did the red arrow point to the driver's helmet, and not on the fact that his pillion did not have one?

[Middle Aged Grouch]

The main section of Thai road law is that the falang/foreigner/tourist is always the one at fault.

[NorthernRyland]

8 hours ago, Pique Dard said:

...not only was he driving in the forbidden direction, but he was also driving at high speed. who's to blame if he doesn't make it?

He's also a dick because he could have seriously injured another person. I see these types all day and I'm sick of them myself.

[Lemsta69]

20 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

He's also a dick because he could have seriously injured another person. I see these types all day and I'm sick of them myself.

 

Well they ain't gonna change anytime soon. Maybe you need to do some meditation or something.

[MangoKorat]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've started going through reds and turning left to avoid them, too much time wasted at traffic lights and long u turns

You've gone native then?

[MangoKorat]

39 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

The main section of Thai road law is that the falang/foreigner/tourist is always the one at fault.

That is a long told untruth, in the same way as the other one that says the bigger vehicle has to pay in an accident (something my Thai lawyer described as rubbish).

 

If you get blamed for a road accident and/or the police say you have to pay up when you know it wasn't your fault. See a decent lawyer.

 

Plenty of foreigners win in court cases when they have the motivation to fight - the courts are pretty fair actually but you have to be prepared to go to court. Plenty of Thai's also back down when they realise you are serious about court.

[Lacessit]

I do occasionally drive the wrong way on a scooter, I do it quite slowly to give myself time to react.

 

The guy on the scooter IMO had a death wish. Not only way too fast, no head protection. He was toast as soon as he hit the first vehicle.

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

That is a long told untruth, in the same way as the other one that says the bigger vehicle has to pay in an accident (something my Thai lawyer described as rubbish).

 

If you get blamed for a road accident and/or the police say you have to pay up when you know it wasn't your fault. See a decent lawyer.

 

Plenty of foreigners win in court cases when they have the motivation to fight - the courts are pretty fair actually but you have to be prepared to go to court. Plenty of Thai's also back down when they realise you are serious about court.

How does one find a decent lawyer? I understand the term can be an oxymoron.

[MangoKorat]

21 hours ago, Lacessit said:

How does one find a decent lawyer? I understand the term can be an oxymoron.

I know exactly what you mean, I've experienced some of those idiots. Its not too difficult to see through them though - just stay away from anyone that behaves more like a used car salesman than a lawyer.

 

The girl I use is very good and sorted a few things out for me over the years.  When something's not worth it, she tells me - unlike the charlatans that would take my money knowing I've no chance.  Conversely she also told me that I must take action against my ex wife, I did and I won.

[soi3eddie]

Driving the wrong way against traffic isn't just reserved for motorcyclists. Countless times I've seen pickup trucks doing it too.

 

[richard_smith237]

On 2/29/2024 at 12:15 PM, KhunLA said:

And yes, I also drive against traffic when 'safe'   Actually did it twice yesterday on the MB.  Short distance to the U-turn, instead of the proper U-turn >1 km away, at a traffic signal.

 

I had to chuckle at myself when the first time I attempted to do this I got caught for it by a Policeman and told to go back !!!...

 

 

There is an underpass near me that I use to get to HomePro (about 10 mins away), to avoid the long way round, which incidentally takes me through an area of greater congestion also frequented by heavy trucks, or I have to complete two further U-Turns (which IMO are just dangerous)...  So, after taking the underpass I pulled over to the side of the road, traffic non-existent and ride 50m in the wrong direction and turn into the 'rear entrance' of HomePro.... 

 

Yep, copper saw me doing this and just pointed at me to go back.... I felt silly !!!... and yes, I'm a hypocrite... But, I'd still do the same in that exact same situation as I actually consider it the safer option. 

 

 

 

BUT - to ride like the lad in the Video....  thats not simply riding the wrong way, which is very common, but also commonly done with caution... this examples (in the video) is riding with complete disregard for any safety whatsoever and caution thrown completely to the wind....  

... Riding like that, this lad was always going to kill himself soon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[proton]

On 2/29/2024 at 5:59 PM, Agusts said:

Most Thai bike riders think it is perfectly okay to ride against traffic on road shoulders, I've seen police car go by and not bat an eye, so I assume this is okay here and just need to be aware of them, very dangerous of course...

 

The problem is they do it very fast and without attention, and think they have the right of way...!?!?!?

 

In this video for example, the car obviously didn't see the bike, but the bike rider must have seen the car but he actually thought he HAS the right of way, and expected the car to stop and let him pass...!!!! 🥴, Big mistake... 🙄😔

 

True, a bike hit us when we were turning right, he was riding in the gutter on the wrong side of the road. Police verdict was that he could, and was overtaking, without asking him. But he did it at a junction so illegal anyway- Police verdict not a real junction! When asked in hospital he said he never even saw our car, I also found out he was drunk- we got the blame.

[richard_smith237]

23 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

On 2/29/2024 at 7:03 PM, Middle Aged Grouch said:

The main section of Thai road law is that the falang/foreigner/tourist is always the one at fault.

That is a long told untruth, in the same way as the other one that says the bigger vehicle has to pay in an accident (something my Thai lawyer described as rubbish).

 

If you get blamed for a road accident and/or the police say you have to pay up when you know it wasn't your fault. See a decent lawyer.

 

Plenty of foreigners win in court cases when they have the motivation to fight - the courts are pretty fair actually but you have to be prepared to go to court. Plenty of Thai's also back down when they realise you are serious about court.

 

100% agree with you Middle Aged Grouch....

 

Having been involved in a couple of accidents here, what I have witnessed has nothing to do with 'the foreigner always being at fault'... the way these incidents are resolved is simply by taking the 'path of least resistance'....   whatever that is. 

 

Usually, the 'wealthier party' is considered to be least impacted in an incident so costs may get nudged on to them, the wealthier party is usually the car driver in a motorcycle-car incident, so to the 'social norm' is for the car driver to be held 'unofficially accountable' and to cover some of the costs for the motorcyclist.

 

This is when a foreigner may cry "foreigner always at fault" because he doesn't understand what has become a cultural norm. 

 

 

So.. what happens in road accidents the Police will usually end up simply choosing whoever appears to be wealthier to cover the costs of the accident... this doesn't sit well with many. Some accept the decision and then walk away crying unfair treatment. Others reject this which is when 'more official decisions are made'.... 

 

If you have 1st Class insurance, there is little to be concerned with, but I still wouldn't accept any fault or sign anything because there is a risk of compensation claims if you do so.

 

 

Ultimately - I've been in incidents where I was treated very fairly... one of them I'd argue I was treated more favourably because I am a foreigner.  Experience obviously varies on all of this...

 

....  But the 'foreigner automatically being at fault' is not something I have ever experienced here, although I believe others have, though they may have interpreted their situation differently through this sense of paranoia. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, proton said:

True, a bike hit us when we were turning right, he was riding in the gutter on the wrong side of the road. Police verdict was that he could, and was overtaking, without asking him. But he did it at a junction so illegal anyway- Police verdict not a real junction! When asked in hospital he said he never even saw our car, I also found out he was drunk- we got the blame.

 

I'd rephrase that last sentence... to "We accepted the Blame".....    because in this situation you could have refused to accept blame and allow the decision to be taken up a level.... but its sometimes easier and quicker to just accept the blame than deal with the hassle of a contest.

 

This happened to me when I had an accident over 20 years ago (pre-dashcams) 

The other vehicle (an uninsured Mini-van) overtook me at a junction (him going straight on while I was turning right).. I was in the right most lane, he over taking heading towards oncomming traffic (busses), he hit my drivers side door as I was making the turn.

 

As the van had no insurance and before I could speak the Police initially said the accident was my fault, but I was polite and very firm, I refused to accept blame, I pointed out that I'm more than happy to push this up as high as it needs to go, but I'm not accepting fault. 

 

The other driver was also faking an injury (which I suspect was leading to him to enter the 'compensation' negotiation at some point).

I'd taken loads of photos of the accident scene and each time the van-driver made up some BS excuse about how the accident happened, one of the photos' showed him to be lying. 

 

It came to a head when the other driver said I didn't indicate to turn right....    I asked the Policeman if he is familiar with driving standards in the UK and does he think the standards are better there, or in Thailand ?.... he agreed, standards are higher in the UK...

I asked him if he believed that I used the indicator or not, he said, with the higher standards in the UK he believed that I indicated !!!!  (being a foreigner worked in my favour !!)...

 

Then someone else came in and money changed hands (or rather brown envelopes were handed over)....  It turned out the mini-van was an unlicensed bus operating on a public route and paying the local BiB to use that route.

 

The Policeman, sympathetically highlighted that he was unable to make a 'decision' that placed the other guy at fault (because they were paying off a more senior officer at the station)....  

 

No problem, I still wouldn't accept fault....  We were both sent to a larger police station and I dealt with someone more senior... 

The senior officer said that if I insisted on going to court, that would be ok, I'd probably win, but it would take time.

I pointed out that I didn't want to be held accountable for any part in the other parties injuries or damages.

The officer asked if I was happy with a 50:50 decision, my insurance only covers my costs and there is no scope for a compensation claim. 

 

This was fair IMO...  Obviously not up to international standards, but we are not in the UK... 

I felt I was treated very politely and respectfully and ultimately, I believe I was treated fairly given the complexities of corruption muddying the waters a little. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

45 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

100% agree with you Middle Aged Grouch....

Are you sure who you are agreeing with?

[ExpatOilWorker]

To add to the confusion and lethality of Thai roads, some frontage roads have two-way traffic, as show here on Rama 2.

 

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, proton said:

True, a bike hit us when we were turning right, he was riding in the gutter on the wrong side of the road. Police verdict was that he could, and was overtaking, without asking him. But he did it at a junction so illegal anyway- Police verdict not a real junction! When asked in hospital he said he never even saw our car, I also found out he was drunk- we got the blame.

Once again the police are part of the problem. They really do get what they deserve here so even with these nasty wrecks I just shake my head.

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Usually, the 'wealthier party' is considered to be least impacted in an incident so costs may get nudged on to them, the wealthier party is usually the car driver in a motorcycle-car incident, so to the 'social norm' is for the car driver to be held 'unofficially accountable' and to cover some of the costs for the motorcyclist.

 

This is when a foreigner may cry "foreigner always at fault" because he doesn't understand what has become a cultural norm. 

 

This is tragic though because it means rules and safety are secondary. Worse yet it enables the underclass to behave poorly as they may get compensated. Once again they get what they deserve.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Usually, the 'wealthier party' is considered to be least impacted in an incident so costs may get nudged on to them, the wealthier party is usually the car driver in a motorcycle-car incident, so to the 'social norm' is for the car driver to be held 'unofficially accountable' and to cover some of the costs for the motorcyclist.

 

This is when a foreigner may cry "foreigner always at fault" because he doesn't understand what has become a cultural norm. 

 

This is tragic though because it means rules and safety are secondary. Worse yet it enables the underclass to behave poorly as they may get compensated. Once again they get what they deserve.

 

There was an article in the Bangkok Post a number of years back that highlighted that this attitude actually led to more accidents and cost the insurance industry more, because people are driving and riding around carelessly because the attitude "you can't take what I don't have" is prevalent - there are no financial consequences... 

 

.... That said - I've been driving here for a couple of decades and can't believe I haven't yet hit a motorcycle, yet daily they cut me up with seems like CM's... also very regularly, almost daily it seems that there is a motorcyclist who should be thanking me for hitting the breaks as they cut me up or drive straight towards me...

 

... Its like a game of chicken...  on a narrow soi, motorcyclists ride directly towards me, passing the long line of traffic on their side of the road, forcing me to stop....  we're then at an impasse until they 'wiggle and manouvre' their bike out the way.... 

It sometimes makes driving 2mins down the soi to the end take 10mins  as these bikes create obstacle after obstacle and seem not to care that they get in the way.... 

[NorthernRyland]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

.... That said - I've been driving here for a couple of decades and can't believe I haven't yet hit a motorcycle, yet daily they cut me up with seems like CM's... also very regularly, almost daily it seems that there is a motorcyclist who should be thanking me for hitting the breaks as they cut me up or drive straight towards me...

 

it gives a false sense of security that it doesn't wrong more often, at least what you can see. that's why I post these videos from time to time. I didn't get my wife to send me the story but last month near our house some kid on a motorbike got clipped by trailer and was dragged a distance until his death. More years back up the road a few k another kid had the same thing happen but lost his head. These things happen but no one here learns so things go back to normal and unless you were told it may seem safe.

[Agusts]

On 3/1/2024 at 3:54 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I'd rephrase that last sentence... to "We accepted the Blame".....    because in this situation you could have refused to accept blame and allow the decision to be taken up a level.... but its sometimes easier and quicker to just accept the blame than deal with the hassle of a contest.

 

This happened to me when I had an accident over 20 years ago (pre-dashcams) 

The other vehicle (an uninsured Mini-van) overtook me at a junction (him going straight on while I was turning right).. I was in the right most lane, he over taking heading towards oncomming traffic (busses), he hit my drivers side door as I was making the turn.

 

As the van had no insurance and before I could speak the Police initially said the accident was my fault, but I was polite and very firm, I refused to accept blame, I pointed out that I'm more than happy to push this up as high as it needs to go, but I'm not accepting fault. 

 

The other driver was also faking an injury (which I suspect was leading to him to enter the 'compensation' negotiation at some point).

I'd taken loads of photos of the accident scene and each time the van-driver made up some BS excuse about how the accident happened, one of the photos' showed him to be lying. 

 

It came to a head when the other driver said I didn't indicate to turn right....    I asked the Policeman if he is familiar with driving standards in the UK and does he think the standards are better there, or in Thailand ?.... he agreed, standards are higher in the UK...

I asked him if he believed that I used the indicator or not, he said, with the higher standards in the UK he believed that I indicated !!!!  (being a foreigner worked in my favour !!)...

 

Then someone else came in and money changed hands (or rather brown envelopes were handed over)....  It turned out the mini-van was an unlicensed bus operating on a public route and paying the local BiB to use that route.

 

The Policeman, sympathetically highlighted that he was unable to make a 'decision' that placed the other guy at fault (because they were paying off a more senior officer at the station)....  

 

No problem, I still wouldn't accept fault....  We were both sent to a larger police station and I dealt with someone more senior... 

The senior officer said that if I insisted on going to court, that would be ok, I'd probably win, but it would take time.

I pointed out that I didn't want to be held accountable for any part in the other parties injuries or damages.

The officer asked if I was happy with a 50:50 decision, my insurance only covers my costs and there is no scope for a compensation claim. 

 

This was fair IMO...  Obviously not up to international standards, but we are not in the UK... 

I felt I was treated very politely and respectfully and ultimately, I believe I was treated fairly given the complexities of corruption muddying the waters a little. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I worry about to, once accepting blame and be guilty party, then they can cook up and claim more compensation and damages later....! 

 

But it's good to know, if accept 50:50 blame, then it stops further pursue of us, I try to bare this in mind, if it works...🤞🏻

 

Best is to get them sign an agreement, that if I pay some damages, they never ever claim any more money in anyway related to this particular event... (and sign by the police as witness too), we should have this in English and Thai written down by a lawyer and keep in our pockets, if acceptable in courts... ! 🤗