What Would You Have Israel Do to Defend Itself?

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If either Biden or Trump win in November, I doubt either will try to force israel to remove itself from the West Bank.

Perhaps in the future, a couple of generations on, there will be a POTUS that is not afraid of the Jewish establishment in the USA and will end illegal israeli settlements, but not in my lifetime I fear.

The Jewish establishment as you put it in the US is not responsible or to blame for settlements, the same as Jews in any other country are not, stop this anti-Semitic nonsense.

[Bkk Brian]

This is the problem in this war, from the OP, Hamas using the civilians as human shields

 

"Daphne Richemond-Barak, the author of “Underground Warfare,” writes in Foreign Policy magazine: “Never in the history of tunnel warfare has a defender been able to spend months in such confined spaces. The digging itself, the innovative ways Hamas has made use of the tunnels and the group’s survival underground for this long have been unprecedented.”
In other words, in this war, Hamas is often underground, the Israelis are often aboveground, and Hamas seeks to position civilians directly between them. "

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

no one dies in wars? what does war mean to you? It means they fight to the death, when more of them are dead or disabled then thats the winner.

Fight to the death implies all the enemy have died.

 

A winner is normally decided when one side surrenders or negotiates, but Hamas is unlikely to surrender. Paradise awaits the martyrs and all that.

 

So, if Hamas does not surrender or negotiate, and it's likely they will not, at what point will israel "win"? It's highly unlikely all would be killed, as they have about a million probably willing to join them.

 

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Fight to the death implies all the enemy have died.

 

A winner is normally decided when one side surrenders or negotiates, but Hamas is unlikely to surrender. Paradise awaits the martyrs and all that.

 

So, if Hamas does not surrender or negotiate, and it's likely they will not, at what point will israel "win"? It's highly unlikely all would be killed, as they have about a million probably willing to join them.

 

 

it implies that to you. you dont win wars by being nice, of  course not everyone dies but it is a fight to the death.

Israel imo need to actually  go in even harder than they have, I know you wont  like  that. No surrender keep fighting. I have no interest in who wins.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fight to the death implies all the enemy have died.

 

A winner is normally decided when one side surrenders or negotiates, but Hamas is unlikely to surrender. Paradise awaits the martyrs and all that.

 

So, if Hamas does not surrender or negotiate, and it's likely they will not, at what point will israel "win"? It's highly unlikely all would be killed, as they have about a million probably willing to join them.

 

 

Fight to the death implies all the enemy have died.

 

Because you'd hate it for all the Hamas terrorists to die right? Don't worry, that's not going to happen, but they will be eliminated from use along with their terror infrastructure. Stop the lies about another million of them waiting to join to.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

it implies that to you. you dont win wars by being nice, of  course not everyone dies but it is a fight to the death.

Israel imo need to actually  go in even harder than they have, I know you wont  like  that. No surrender keep fighting. I have no interest in who wins.

 

This isn't a war, which is between two sides capable of attacking and defending themselves. This is just a slaughter of a captive population that is trapped and helpless.

[OneMoreFarang]

On 3/27/2024 at 5:18 AM, Social Media said:

calls for a reevaluation of Israel's approach to defending itself against Hamas's aggression grow louder

One of the things which Israel's politicians and population should do is to think about why there is something like "Hamas's aggression".

Did that aggression come out of nowhere? Or do Palestinians have reasons to be upset?

 

Does Israel's settler policy, with over 500,000 settlers on Palestinian territory, increase the chance of peace? Or is that one reason why there is no peace? Does the fact that Palestinians are thrown out of their houses in Jerusalem help to live in peace with the neighbors? Or does it give those neighbors just another reason to hate the occupiers?

 

Maybe it's time for Israel to radically change their politics. If Palestinians have food and water, will that help to make them happy? Sure. If Palestinians see that Israelis treat them like fellow human beings, will that help or hurt?

 

Obviously both sides do things wrong. But who is in charge? Who has the power to change something? Israel is in charge. And they can do whatever they want because the USA and many other countries let them get away with it. If Israel wants peace, then they should work on peace and don't make more and more war. Because if they treat their neighbors like animals then they should not be surprised if those neighbors react like starving dogs. 

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

This isn't a war, which is between two sides capable of attacking and defending themselves. This is just a slaughter of a captive population that is trapped and helpless.

More lies. Its a war where one side is being used by terrorists as human shields and sacrifice. 

[Rampant Rabbit]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

This isn't a war, which is between two sides capable of attacking and defending themselves. This is just a slaughter of a captive population that is trapped and helpless.

thats  irrelevant, all out  war  will decide what happens whether its  fair  or  not, many wars are not  just.

[OneMoreFarang]

Mostly I gave up reading and watching news about this. Because what can any of us do? Nothing!

As long as the USA supports Israel almost unconditionally, they have no reason to change.

And it seems any US government will support Israel.

So, what can we do? Look at the news and think how unfair the world is? Or try to ignore it because we know it's unfair.

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Mostly I gave up reading and watching news about this. Because what can any of us do? Nothing!

As long as the USA supports Israel almost unconditionally, they have no reason to change.

And it seems any US government will support Israel.

So, what can we do? Look at the news and think how unfair the world is? Or try to ignore it because we know it's unfair.

You conveniently fail to mention the unconditional support that Iran gives to Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houtis.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

This isn't a war, which is between two sides capable of attacking and defending themselves. This is just a slaughter of a captive population that is trapped and helpless.

Of course it's a war.

Israel is sort of winning the military side.

Hamas / Iran is strongly winning the propaganda side.

[Jeff the Chef]

I'd like to see Israel go back inside their original borders, comply with all U.N. resolutions, then look after their own people and leave the Arabs alone.

[JustAnotherHun]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I'd like to see Israel go back inside their original borders, comply with all U.N. resolutions, then look after their own people and leave the Arabs alone.

Would would that mean exactly?

Waiting for the next 7/10 massacre?

What I would like them to do? Well, whipe out the terrorists and their supporters. 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Would would that mean exactly?

Waiting for the next 7/10 massacre?

What I would like them to do? Well, whipe out the terrorists and their supporters. 

 Exactly what it says on the tin, Israel goes back to their given lands, look after their own people, comply with all U.N. resolutions, and leave the Arabs alone.

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You conveniently fail to mention the unconditional support that Iran gives to Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houtis.

Indeed, here they were with their buddies just yesterday.

 

https://twitter.com/IsraelinUSA/status/1773155293381476451

 

[Wobblybob]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Mostly I gave up reading and watching news about this. Because what can any of us do? Nothing!

As long as the USA supports Israel almost unconditionally, they have no reason to change.

And it seems any US government will support Israel.

So, what can we do? Look at the news and think how unfair the world is? Or try to ignore it because we know it's unfair.

Isn't it good news when governments stand up to terrorism?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Isn't it good news when governments stand up to terrorism?

Apparently not if it's Jews standing up.

Jews should know their place.

Waiting passively to be slaughtered.

[Wobblybob]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Apparently not if it's Jews standing up.

Exactly......no Jews no news. If this war was Muslim against Muslim no one would be interested.🥴

[Nick Carter icp]

26 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

I'd like to see Israel go back inside their original borders, 

 

   That ship sailed long ago .

That opportunity has passed 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Exactly......no Jews no news. If this war was Muslim against Muslim no one would be interested.🥴

There is zero doubt about that but good luck finding Israel demonizers to admit to that dark reality. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

Isn't it good news when governments stand up to terrorism?

I am sure you heard the expression before that the same people are called terrorists and freedom fighters.

 

I am sure there are reasons why some countries call Hamas terrorists.

Let's ignore that label for a moment. 

What would you do if soldiers from another country would invade your city and destroy lots of buildings and interrupt food, water and electricity supply? Would you just accept that because those invaders tell you some bad people are in your city, and they all have to be killed? Or would you defend yourself, your family, your friends, and they people you live with?

I was never in such a situation, and I can't really know what I would do. But somehow, I expect I would fight against the invading aggressors.

 

As far as I know all countries, with the only exception of the USA and Israel, are demanding a ceasefire. So, it seems >90% of the world agrees that Israel should stop their aggression. 

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am sure you heard the expression before that the same people are called terrorists and freedom fighters.

 

I am sure there are reasons why some countries call Hamas terrorists.

Let's ignore that label for a moment. 

What would you do if soldiers from another country would invade your city and destroy lots of buildings and interrupt food, water and electricity supply? Would you just accept that because those invaders tell you some bad people are in your city, and they all have to be killed? Or would you defend yourself, your family, your friends, and they people you live with?

I was never in such a situation, and I can't really know what I would do. But somehow, I expect I would fight against the invading aggressors.

 

As far as I know all countries, with the only exception of the USA and Israel, are demanding a ceasefire. So, it seems >90% of the world agrees that Israel should stop their aggression. 

I am sure there are reasons why some countries call Hamas terrorists.

 

Yes why not have a stab at it?

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am sure you heard the expression before that the same people are called terrorists and freedom fighters.

 

I am sure there are reasons why some countries call Hamas terrorists.

Let's ignore that label for a moment. 

What would you do if soldiers from another country would invade your city and destroy lots of buildings and interrupt food, water and electricity supply? Would you just accept that because those invaders tell you some bad people are in your city, and they all have to be killed? Or would you defend yourself, your family, your friends, and they people you live with?

I was never in such a situation, and I can't really know what I would do. But somehow, I expect I would fight against the invading aggressors.

 

As far as I know all countries, with the only exception of the USA and Israel, are demanding a ceasefire. So, it seems >90% of the world agrees that Israel should stop their aggression. 

If my government had allowed the people that are supposed to be the representatives of my country to commit such sadistic acts of degradation on innocent Israelis I would without a doubt say 'we deserve it'.

[Jeff the Chef]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That ship sailed long ago .

That opportunity has passed 

 

The Good Ship Lollipop may have sailed long ago. but my full post included, comply with all U.N. resolutions, then look after their own people and leave the Arabs alone.

[herfiehandbag]

On 3/28/2024 at 10:45 AM, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Its not just the settlements though , all Jews would have to removed from Israel before the Palestinians stop attacking Jews .

   When Jewish Israel is replaced by a Iranian style hard-line Islamic state with Sharia law Palestine , is the time when the Palestinians will stop fighting Israel 

A process which really would involve a genocide - there are what, 9.5 million Israelis. They would literally be driven into the sea and slaughtered. October 7, and all it's horrors would only be a "taster".

 

Israel knows and understands this. They will not lose. Ultimately they know that the only thing which will buy a generation of relative peace is to utterly destroy Hamas. Something else will eventually arise to replace them, but Israel will be prepared.

 

There is not going to be peace in Israel. End of.

[OneMoreFarang]

24 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

If my government had allowed the people that are supposed to be the representatives of my country to commit such sadistic acts of degradation on innocent Israelis I would without a doubt say 'we deserve it'.

 

How about:

If my government had allowed the people that are supposed to be the representatives of my country to commit such sadistic acts of degradation on innocent Palestinians I would without a doubt say 'we deserve it'.

 

The problem is that both people can point at the others and point at all the bad things which the others did. And if they wish they can also think about what bad things their own side did. But they did it obviously only because the others did it.

Now the question is if both sides accept that lots of bad things happened in the past and both sides try to live in peace with the other side. I know that is very difficult but it's the only way out of the current situation. 

[Wobblybob]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

How about:

If my government had allowed the people that are supposed to be the representatives of my country to commit such sadistic acts of degradation on innocent Palestinians I would without a doubt say 'we deserve it'.

 

The problem is that both people can point at the others and point at all the bad things which the others did. And if they wish they can also think about what bad things their own side did. But they did it obviously only because the others did it.

Now the question is if both sides accept that lots of bad things happened in the past and both sides try to live in peace with the other side. I know that is very difficult but it's the only way out of the current situation. 

The past is long gone, we are where we are now and that doesn't include the sadistic murders we have all seen. If your morality compass is out of synch that is no fault of anyone but yourself!

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

The past is long gone, we are where we are now and that doesn't include the sadistic murders we have all seen. If your moral compass is out of synch that is no fault of anyone but yourself!

 

My moral compass is like: If someone does something bad to me and people I care about, then I hope whoever did that will be punished. 

In some countries for some crimes this punishment happens from the authorities. In other countries lots of bad people get away with horrendous crimes and the authorities do nothing. I understand when in such situations people fight against the bad guys and against the bad authorities.

 

And this is of course something which applies to many situations in many countries all over the world. 

 

When you write: "The past is long gone", do you apply this to anything? If someone murdered your family a year ago, was that in the past and long ago and it doesn't really matter anymore? Or 10 years? Or how long ago is long enough? 

[Wobblybob]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

My moral compass is like: If someone does something bad to me and people I care about, then I hope whoever did that will be punished. 

In some countries for some crimes this punishment happens from the authorities. In other countries lots of bad people get away with horrendous crimes and the authorities do nothing. I understand when in such situations people fight against the bad guys and against the bad authorities.

 

And this is of course something which applies to many situations in many countries all over the world. 

 

When you write: "The past is long gone", do you apply this to anything? If someone murdered your family a year ago, was that in the past and long ago and it doesn't really matter anymore? Or 10 years? Or how long ago is long enough? 

A year ago is not 80, stop trying to justify the crimes of these evil People, the rest of your post is just gibberish!