placnx Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/6/2024 at 9:35 PM, Bkk Brian said: I have, feel free to do the same UN finds evidence of rape on Oct. 7 and after; Israel: They tried to downplay issue https://aseannow.com/topic/1321564-un-finds-evidence-of-rape-on-oct-7-and-after-israel-they-tried-to-downplay-issue/ This UN report had no testimony from victims, only hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 minute ago, placnx said: This UN report had no testimony from victims, only hearsay. It has evidence. How can it have testimony when most victims when are dead? Besides you need to catch up on the hostages that have been released and revealed the sexual abuse they suffered in Gaza by Hamas. They were not interviewed by UN as released from Gaza after the report. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/6/2024 at 10:12 PM, jayboy said: In other words, neither you nor he is willing to say how Israel should have responded to the Hamas atrocities in October. A majority in the US now are against Israel's reactionary atrocities committed on a scale beyond anything since WW2. Whatever IDF did, it should have avoided alienating the US public. Also, exposing itself to charges of genocide was a fateful choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 2 minutes ago, placnx said: A majority in the US now are against Israel's reactionary atrocities committed on a scale beyond anything since WW2. Whatever IDF did, it should have avoided alienating the US public. Also, exposing itself to charges of genocide was a fateful choice. You should check the latest poll on that: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/HHP_Mar2024_KeyResults.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/7/2024 at 11:30 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said: I have a question - to all those people outraged and angry by what Israel has done to Gaza. What have you done and/or what have you said about the atrocities being committed by the Military Dictatorhip in Myanmar since they illegally took over in a violent coup and imprisoned a Nobel Peace Prize winning politician? Now please dont take that as a criticism - take it as a genuine open question. When you answer that with the truth - then you may begin to realise that your 'selective' outrage is being fanned by the media. Then you might think about all the other atrocities being done all over the world every year. Then you should take a look at all the media driven outrage not involving Israel - where is it? And then you might realise that the media drive discontent and outrage because it sells - they love wars because they do best in times of war and Israel is a very easy target. I'm also following the Burma story. There the opposition is fortunately not up against the IDF. Even so many civilians have also died there in indiscriminate attacks, and the ICJ is involved. Now let's not digress further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoguy21 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Could it have been taken from the debris? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/7/2024 at 7:49 PM, Wobblybob said: Nothing excuses 7/10, sorry but your excuses are wearing very thin. Hamas want to eradicate Israel and the Israelis off the face of the Earth and Israel are not allowing them to do this and most people would have to agree with this, but not you Hummin. 🙁 The Israeli public has been subjected to Pavlovian conditioning for so many years that it seems to be immune to reason. There is this paranoid reflex that they are going to be eliminated, but the reality is quite the opposite. It's the Palestinians who see their space and identity constantly under threat since WW 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/8/2024 at 11:16 AM, Nick Carter icp said: What about "Apartheid", you seem to have forgotten to mention that , you've managed to get all the other buzz words in You asked for it: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/8/2024 at 11:24 AM, Nick Carter icp said: Can you just name one, please mate ? War crime: intentional starvation of civilians 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobblybob Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 9 minutes ago, placnx said: The Israeli public has been subjected to Pavlovian conditioning for so many years that it seems to be immune to reason. There is this paranoid reflex that they are going to be eliminated, but the reality is quite the opposite. It's the Palestinians who see their space and identity constantly under threat since WW 1. I don't care what spin you use to justify the start of this war, it started by the Palestian incursion on 7/10. Nice try though.😡 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 41 minutes ago, placnx said: A majority in the US now are against Israel's reactionary atrocities committed on a scale beyond anything since WW2. Whatever IDF did, it should have avoided alienating the US public. Also, exposing itself to charges of genocide was a fateful choice. Another person who refuses (or is unable) to answer the question posed - how should have Israel have responded to Hamas's murderous pogrom of October 7th.There is a consensus that the Israeli have hugely overreacted and there is understandable compassion for civilian casualties in Gaza.A pity the Israelis, specifically the dreadful Netanyahu did not heed Biden's warning about the need for restraint.But the question remains - what should Israel have done in response? The genocide chatter is in my view nonsense but I won't debate that here, and in no sense was it a choice.The foolish comment about the Israeli incursion being likened to the worst since WW2 needs to be debunked.In neighboring Syria over 500,000 have been massacred in Assad's war.There have been greater numbers of casualties in many places - Myanmar, Sudan, China, Rwanda etc etc.These matters are complex but I believe Israel is the only country which faces an existential threat.Hamas has vowed to repeat their crimes until Israel is erased altogether.As always there is a great deal of Jew hatred involved in the current global campaign against Israel.It was ever thus. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 On 4/9/2024 at 1:20 PM, Bkk Brian said: You should check the latest poll on that: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/HHP_Mar2024_KeyResults.pdf These questions (see fine print) present such polar opposites that it would be hard for most people to choose the side criticizing Israel. It's human nature to not give the unfavored answer. If people were asked whether they approved of various tactics such as the starvation siege of the population, they would probably disapprove. A Wall Street Journal late February poll cited on page 6 of the April 3rd edition says that 60% of voters disapprove of Biden's handling of the war, up 8 points since December. If people approved of the execution of the war, why would they disapprove of Biden's stand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 10 hours ago, placnx said: These questions (see fine print) present such polar opposites that it would be hard for most people to choose the side criticizing Israel. It's human nature to not give the unfavored answer. If people were asked whether they approved of various tactics such as the starvation siege of the population, they would probably disapprove. A Wall Street Journal late February poll cited on page 6 of the April 3rd edition says that 60% of voters disapprove of Biden's handling of the war, up 8 points since December. If people approved of the execution of the war, why would they disapprove of Biden's stand? Reaching for the stars with that placnx. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 On 4/3/2024 at 6:19 PM, Nick Carter icp said: That is not true . The recent one off bombing was a mistake and Israel has apologised for the error Although the murder of your children and grandchildren is unmistakable! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 minute ago, jacko45k said: Although the murder of your children and grandchildren is unmistakable! Which children and grandchildren have been murdered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Which children and grandchildren have been murdered? Those of Ismail Haniyeh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 minute ago, jacko45k said: Those of Ismail Haniyeh. Then yes you are mistaken, his children were terrorists and he seems pretty happy they were killed in a precision airstrike: "he thanked God for the "honour" bestowed on him by what he called the "martyrdom of his children and grandchildren". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: Then yes you are mistaken, his children were terrorists and he seems pretty happy they were killed in a precision airstrike: "he thanked God for the "honour" bestowed on him by what he called the "martyrdom of his children and grandchildren". Regarding the targeted strike on a car with Ismail Haniyeh's sons and grancshildren, the BBC report didn't mention the quote that you cite. He was reported to have said that this loss is not greater than any other Gazan. While Israel claimed that they were out on a terrorist operation, the other side said that they were out visiting bereaved people. This sounds more plausible since the grandchildren were along. While it is denied, I wonder whether Netanyahu was involved in approving this in order to torpedo the ceasefire negotiations. The leader of World Central Kitchen, José Andrés, wants a top down independent investigation of the targeted strike on his staff. I guess that he wants to know who really ordered this. After worldwide condemnation, the resulting offer by Israel to open the northern Erez crossing to aid trucks has not happened. A top down investigation, perhaps by the next government, might show (if transparent) whether attacks on aid workers, their trucks and ambulances, was a deliberate policy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 6 minutes ago, placnx said: Regarding the targeted strike on a car with Ismail Haniyeh's sons and grancshildren, the BBC report didn't mention the quote that you cite. He was reported to have said that this loss is not greater than any other Gazan. While Israel claimed that they were out on a terrorist operation, the other side said that they were out visiting bereaved people. This sounds more plausible since the grandchildren were along. While it is denied, I wonder whether Netanyahu was involved in approving this in order to torpedo the ceasefire negotiations. The leader of World Central Kitchen, José Andrés, wants a top down independent investigation of the targeted strike on his staff. I guess that he wants to know who really ordered this. After worldwide condemnation, the resulting offer by Israel to open the northern Erez crossing to aid trucks has not happened. A top down investigation, perhaps by the next government, might show (if transparent) whether attacks on aid workers, their trucks and ambulances, was a deliberate policy. BBC report didn't mention the quote that you cite. Yes it did, time to do some basic research: In comments reported on Hamas's Telegram channel, he thanked God for the "honour" bestowed on him by what he called the "martyrdom of his children and grandchildren". https://www.bbc.com/news/68783840 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: BBC report didn't mention the quote that you cite. Yes it did, time to do some basic research: In comments reported on Hamas's Telegram channel, he thanked God for the "honour" bestowed on him by what he called the "martyrdom of his children and grandchildren". https://www.bbc.com/news/68783840 Thanks for the link. I was writing of a report on BBC World News which did not mention the martyrdom statement. Maybe I was confused about who was visiting the injured, not bereaved, as recounted in your link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 4 minutes ago, placnx said: Thanks for the link. I was writing of a report on BBC World News which did not mention the martyrdom statement. Maybe I was confused about who was visiting the injured, not bereaved, as recounted in your link. Here is the moment he was told, no hint of emotion from him whatsoever https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1778085390378741987 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 22 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: Then yes you are mistaken, his children were terrorists and he seems pretty happy they were killed in a precision airstrike: "he thanked God for the "honour" bestowed on him by what he called the "martyrdom of his children and grandchildren". I do not see how I was wrong, I made no mention of their status other than being his children. As usual for those with an agenda you did not mention his grandchildren. I am not able to know the man's feelings as you are, but I doubt the overall feeling for him was one of joy. I hope we do not get family of Hamas members visiting London! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 1 hour ago, jacko45k said: I do not see how I was wrong, I made no mention of their status other than being his children. As usual for those with an agenda you did not mention his grandchildren. I am not able to know the man's feelings as you are, but I doubt the overall feeling for him was one of joy. I hope we do not get family of Hamas members visiting London! You said they were murdered, you were wrong. 23 hours ago, jacko45k said: Although the murder of your children and grandchildren is unmistakable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: You said they were murdered, you were wrong. Nonsense. YOU said it was a precision attack, which killed them. Plainly murder! Disingenuous. Three of the grandchildren killed were girls, Edited April 12 by jacko45k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 8 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Nonsense. YOU said it was a precision attack, which killed them. Plainly murder! Disingenuous. Three of the grandchildren killed were girls, It was and it was still not murder no matter how many times you stomp up and down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: It was and it was still not murder no matter how many times you stomp up and down Says you, the IDF and nobody else. Still dead through no fault of their own, murdered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobblybob Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Says you, the IDF and nobody else. Still dead through no fault of their own, murdered! You're correct "no fault of their own" but the terrorist father who compromised them for letting them travel with him knowing he was a target. Edited April 12 by Wobblybob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 14 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Says you, the IDF and nobody else. Still dead through no fault of their own, murdered! Can you provide a credible link to where it was claimed they were murdered, you said everybody else, so go ahead. In the mean time everybody else knows the rules of war including "IHL War rule 14" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placnx Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: Can you provide a credible link to where it was claimed they were murdered, you said everybody else, so go ahead. In the mean time everybody else knows the rules of war including "IHL War rule 14" IHL War rule 14 states: "Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited." So the attack seems to be a violation of this rule, as only one person was a "squad commander". According to Times of Israel, "The IDF says that the trio were “en route to carry out terror activity in the area of central Gaza” when they were struck.", evidently another IDF lie. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-shin-bet-confirm-killing-haniyehs-sons-say-the-three-were-hamas-operatives/ Today Al Jazeera has an excellent discussion of this assassination and the policy in general. The intro to the discussion mentions that worldwide Israel has done 2700 assassinations by various means. https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2024/4/11/what-has-allowed-israel-operate-an-assassination-policy-for-decades The comments by historian Ilan Pappe on the background and motivation for such assassinations are quite astute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 20 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: Can you provide a credible link to where it was claimed they were murdered, you said everybody else, so go ahead. In the mean time everybody else knows the rules of war including "IHL War rule 14" I see no point in discussing semantics.... the killing of little girls in 'precision attacks; is bad enough. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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