9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Sure, I can fully understand that logic, all this foreigner stuff is new to the TRD, it probably scares them, and it increases their workload.

They have no capability or understanding - it will take years for them to be anywhere the Tax Offices in modern countries - probably decades.

 

10 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Yep. And that is when a lot of people are going to meet their WTF moment.

That is where we were dragged before - leave it alone mate - this proposal is good news and I think much more is coming. TRD are moving to global taxation - IMO they will implement exclusions for non-Thai citizens like most other countries have done.  As the Malaysian Minster said (paraphrase) - 'Why would be discourage Expats from bringing money into our country that they will spend in our country, by hitting them with income taxes. When they buy things here they are building the economy with 'new' money and they will also be paying sales taxes on many of the products they buy'. 

 

11 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

TRD are moving to global taxation

 

Agreed. That is why I just spent 3 months in the Philippines scoping out the SRRV.

 

15 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO they will implement exclusions for non-Thai citizens like most other countries have done.  As the Malaysian Minster said (paraphrase) - 'Why would be discourage Expats from bringing money into our country that they will spend in our country, by hitting them with income taxes.

 

I thought that was only valid until next year ?

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Agreed. That is why I just spent 3 months in the Philippines scoping out the SRRV.

You're worrying way too much for things that have not happened and most probably won't.

I hope your pre-planned move is not primarily motivated for tax reasons, that would be a mistake. PH is not TH.

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

You're worrying way too much for things that have not happened and most probably won't.

I hope your pre-planned move is not primarily motivated for tax reasons, that would be a mistake. PH is not TH.

 

I'm not worrying about anything.

 

It's not a pre-planned move, It was an initial recce to get a heads up on the SRRV and visit a couple of mates and get a feel for the place.

 

Initial phase of a Plan B, in case Thailand goes for global taxation.

18 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Agreed. That is why I just spent 3 months in the Philippines scoping out the SRRV.

 

 

I thought that was only valid until next year ?

 

How was it there and is the SSRV OK - any advice. Philippines is an option if Thailand goes to sheite for Expats.

 

 

Malaysia extended that exemption for another 10 years as per below. Apparently they cannot make it permanent under their current tax rules and by-laws - only 10 years at a time. 

Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (Amendment) Order 2024

The Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (Amendment) Order 2024 (“amendment order”) extends the income tax exemption for all types of foreign-source income received by resident individuals (except for income from a Malaysian partnership business that is received in Malaysia from outside Malaysia) until 31 December 2036, provided that the income has been subjected to tax in the jurisdiction of origin (the exemption was previously set to end on 31 December 2026, pursuant to the Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (P.U.(A) 234/2022)). The amendment order will come into operation on 1 January 2027.

17 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

I'm not worrying about anything.

 

It's not a pre-planned move, It was an initial recce to get a heads up on the SRRV and visit a couple of mates and get a feel for the place.

 

Initial phase of a Plan B, in case Thailand goes for global taxation.

Planning ahead - always a good idea. Sticking head in sand - not a good strategy.  It is good for now about income taxes, but Thailand might decide, when they do implement the global tax system, to tax all the foreign income of all tax residents (Expats included) - you never know.  Another coup might happen and the next Junta may want Expats out - who knows what is going to happen.  There are too many things that could happen here, and it is almost as foolish as not wearing a helmet on a bike, to not plan ahead for another option. I have a few Plan Bs, but plan C (go back to Australia) is my least preferred option - but I have a plan.

21 hours ago, Yumthai said:

You're worrying way too much for things that have not happened and most probably won't.

I hope your pre-planned move is not primarily motivated for tax reasons, that would be a mistake. PH is not TH.

 

   Ssshhhhh.  Let's not spoil a good thing.

so with this new thing, we dont need to do tax declaration or get a TIN? I need a tax certificate can we get it without TIN and doing declaration or we have to do a null tax declaration to get the tax certificate?

On 5/22/2025 at 1:19 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

How was it there and is the SSRV OK - any advice. Philippines is an option if Thailand goes to sheite for Expats.

 

Just seen this, hence the late response.

 

SRRV

 

$20,000 deposit or £10000 deposit and $800 a month pension. £350 a year to renew.

 

No 90 day reports and come and go as you please.

 

Currently no taxation.

 

I stayed in 2 locations for a month each and would have no issues setting up in either location.

 

Costs I cannot really compare as I was basically a 3 month tourist, but I don't think costs are much different to Thailand.

 

On 5/22/2025 at 1:26 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Planning ahead - always a good idea. Sticking head in sand - not a good strategy.  It is good for now about income taxes, but Thailand might decide, when they do implement the global tax system, to tax all the foreign income of all tax residents (Expats included) - you never know.

 

Indeed. 

 

Imagine the panic if Thailand were to announce Global Taxation and all DTA's are cancelled until they are re-written / re-negotiated.

 

Which is not beyond the realms of possibility.

As a resident in Thailand, I am extremely confused by how it would be assessed whether or not there are capital gains (and therefore tax liability) included in a particular sum of money remitted to Thailand.

 

In 2019, I withdrew twenty million baht from my account with a Thai broker to a British bank. If I now ask the same bank to send back ten million (half the sum) to the same broker, are capital gains involved? The only reason I think they might be is that in the meantime, the money has been all over the place, invested with various brokers in various countries with some capital gain, but I can't imagine how the ten million could be tied down to particular investments.

 

I'd be very grateful for any insight at all, as I'd love to bring some capital into Thailand.

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Just seen this, hence the late response.

SRRV

$20,000 deposit or £10000 deposit and $800 a month pension. £350 a year to renew.

No 90 day reports and come and go as you please.

Currently no taxation.

I stayed in 2 locations for a month each and would have no issues setting up in either location.

Costs I cannot really compare as I was basically a 3 month tourist, but I don't think costs are much different to Thailand.

 

Indeed. 

Imagine the panic if Thailand were to announce Global Taxation and all DTA's are cancelled until they are re-written / re-negotiated.

Which is not beyond the realms of possibility.

You the third person to say about the same thing on this forum  - The Philippines actually welcomes Expats and makes them feel welcome.  I knew two blokes who moved there many years ago and they warned me Thailand would be 'trouble' - they were right.  Thailand is overall better than Philippines, especially for us that have a wife and house here, but as somewhere to spend most of the year and visit Thailand for under 180 days, it is one of the best options in SEAsia. Malaysia is also good to Expats - but they set the bar a bit higher.  Cheapest is probably Vietnam - but only if they ever go ahead with their Retirement Visa (Golden Deal or whatever).   

 

I'm sure glad I didn't fork over 50K baht to Joe Schmoe "Fine" Taxation Advisors for a consultation!

Think of all the people who have left Thailand or are spending over half the year outside Thailand to dodge a bullet that apparently isn't coming.

Thailand -- never a null moment.

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I'm sure glad I didn't fork over 50K baht to Joe Schmoe Taxation Advisors for a consultation!

Thinks of all the people who have left Thailand or spending over half the year outside Thailand to dodge a bullet that apparently isn't coming.

Thailand -- never a null moment.

 

Fortunately, we knew better

5 minutes ago, jrmaanda said:

As a resident in Thailand, I am extremely confused by how it would be assessed whether or not there are capital gains (and therefore tax liability) included in a particular sum of money remitted to Thailand.

 

In 2019, I withdrew twenty million baht from my account with a Thai broker to a British bank. If I now ask the same bank to send back ten million (half the sum) to the same broker, are capital gains involved? The only reason I think they might be is that in the meantime, the money has been all over the place, invested with various brokers in various countries with some capital gain, but I can't imagine how the ten million could be tied down to particular investments.

 

I'd be very grateful for any insight at all, as I'd love to bring some capital into Thailand.

Ask your tax lawyer  - 20 Million Baht (450 GPB) to move around and you dont have one?  Sure mate. 

Just now, hotandsticky said:

 

Fortunately, we knew better

What I did was change my finances in such a way that I had a few years to see how this actually shook out. Under the current rules, there are still definitely a lot of expats who are technically in a position of needing a TIN, filing, and paying.

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm sure glad I didn't fork over 50K baht to Joe Schmoe "Fine" Taxation Advisors for a consultation!

Think of all the people who have left Thailand or are spending over half the year outside Thailand to dodge a bullet that apparently isn't coming.

Thailand -- never a null moment.

I know one and he says there are others there, and they aint coming back - Thailand blew it and now it is too late. His point is why come back and only have the same sort of sheitee happen in 2 years. Life is too short. No 90 days in Philippines, no Tm30, can leave and come back anytime, and they say annual renewal is a doddle. And much more Philipinos speak English than Thais. Has a bit of a Yankie feel to it too - like Chiang Mai and somewhat Udon Thani.  

5 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Ask your tax lawyer  - 20 Million Baht (450 GPB) to move around and you dont have one?  Sure mate. 

How helpful! No, actually I don't because so far there has been no tax liability to worry about. And now, as there must be loads of people who have faced the same uncertainty (whatever the sum involved), I'd like to draw on their experience first.

4 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I know one and he says there are others there, and they aint coming back - Thailand blew it and now it is too late. His point is why come back and only have the same sort of sheitee happen in 2 years. Life is too short. No 90 days in Philippines, no Tm30, can leave and come back anytime, and they say annual renewal is a doddle. And much more Philipinos speak English than Thais. Has a bit of a Yankie feel to it too - like Chiang Mai and somewhat Udon Thani.  

Well, I have made it a hobby to follow retirement visa programs all over the world for over 20 years. I'm here to say that by no means is Thailand the only country that makes policy changes and it isn't the worse case either. So you really never know what you're getting yourself into wherever you move! The worse case that I recall is when Colombia used to have a "lifetime" visa and people had such stamps in their pasports and overnight they downgraded "lifetime" to five years. 

3 minutes ago, jrmaanda said:

How helpful! No, actually I don't because so far there has been no tax liability to worry about. And now, as there must be loads of people who have faced the same uncertainty (whatever the sum involved), I'd like to draw on their experience first.

Never having transferred 20 Million Baht before myself - so like 99% of Expats I have no idea. 

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, I have made it a hobby to follow retirement visa programs all over the world for over 20 years. I'm here to say that by no means is Thailand the only country that makes policy changes and it isn't the worse case either. So you really never know what you're getting yourself into wherever you move! The worse case that I recall is when Colombia used to have a "lifetime" visa and people had such stamps in their pasports and overnight they downgraded "lifetime" to five years. 

Yes indeed - Thailand is not Robinson Crusoe in that regard.  Played golf last year with a couple late last year who were in the process of moving from Spain to Portugal (used to live here and visiting old friends) because Spain decided to change their Immigration Rules from this year, and also dropped many of the benefits of the Visa that they had enjoyed for a few years. Portugal responded by saying to Brits and Others - 'you and your money are more than welcome here' - so they started the process to move.  They are AOK with moving - they have a place in England the kids are currently looking after - they smelt of money and moving was clearly easy for them.     

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Imagine the panic if Thailand were to announce Global Taxation and all DTA's are cancelled until they are re-written / re-negotiated.

If Thailand decides to eliminate their domestic policy that worldwide taxation only applies to remitted worldwide income -- absolutely nothing changes involving DTAs. Remittance is only a local requirement for limiting what worldwide income, addressed in DTAs, is subject to taxation in Thailand. All current DTAs with Thailand, as written, don't ever mention a "remittance" qualifier, because it's existence, or nonexistence, is of no concern to the effectiveness of the DTA.

 

OECD has no problem with Thailand's remittance requirement, as your previous posts seem to indicate. So don't advertise that Thailand will be forced to go to taxation of worldwide income, to keep in OECD's good graces, by eliminating the remittance requirement. OECD doesn't care -- thus Thailand has no reason to eliminate the remittance requirement -- so most likely won't.

 

Quote

The OECD model doesn't use the term "remitted income", but the core principle of allocating taxing rights and providing relief from double taxation applies regardless of whether income is "remitted" to the residence country or retained abroad.

The specific provisions of a tax treaty between two countries, based on the OECD model, determine how income, whether remitted or not, is taxed and double taxation is avoided.
It's crucial to consult the relevant tax treaty and domestic tax laws to understand the tax implications of income earned in one country and remitted to another.

 

 

12 hours ago, JimGant said:

If Thailand decides to eliminate their domestic policy that worldwide taxation only applies to remitted worldwide income -- absolutely nothing changes involving DTAs

 

I never said it did.

 

I said it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Thailand could cancel all current DTA's IF they move to Global Taxation.

 

12 hours ago, JimGant said:

OECD has no problem with Thailand's remittance requirement, as your previous posts seem to indicate.

 

No, my previous posts do not indicate that at all. My previous posts, backed up by directly linking the OECD website, indicate that the OECD are in favour of Global Taxation.

 

I hope you are able to understand the following, and can think through the implications.

 

Quote

OECD Secretary-General Mathias Cormann publicly launched the process of Thailand's accession to the OECD in Bangkok today, formally handing over the Roadmap for accession by the second largest economy in Southeast Asia. 

The OECD Council adopted the Roadmap for the Accession of Thailand on 10 July 2024, following the decision to begin accession discussions with Thailand on 17 June. Following Indonesia, Thailand became the second accession country from Southeast Asia, one of the most dynamic growth regions in the world.

 

https://www.oecd.org/en/about/news/press-releases/2024/10/oecd-kicks-off-accession-process-with-thailand.html

 

Especially this part

 

Quote

As a result of these technical reviews, committees may recommend changes to Thailand’s legislation, policy and practices to bring them further into line with OECD standards and best practices,

 

I don't think anyone would be mental enough ( maybe you ) to argue that Thailands current Tax Policy is anywhere near OECD standards or levels of best practice.

 

So it will be changing, as accession talks progress. Will it change to global taxation, time will tell, but global taxation is the OECD preference. So it makes sense that, that is the road that Thailand goes down.

17 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Imagine the panic if Thailand were to announce Global Taxation and all DTA's are cancelled until they are re-written / re-negotiated.

 

Which is not beyond the realms of possibility.

I don't get what your agenda is, except scaremongering, imaging and pointing out unfavorable events that are possible to occur but unlikely to happen (taking into account Thailand inconsistency, rules flip-flopping history, blatant corruption level and so on).

 

Or, if you think western-like enforced global taxation in Thailand is probable (likely to happen) and on its way, can you bring relevant arguments?

7 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I don't get what your agenda is,

 

I don't have an agenda. I'm pointing out what is currently happening

 

https://www.oecd.org/en/about/news/press-releases/2024/10/oecd-kicks-off-accession-process-with-thailand.html

 

That people wish to stick their heads up their jacksie and pretend that nothing is happening is up to them.

 

Post above yours

 

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

I don't think anyone would be mental enough ( maybe you ) to argue that Thailands current Tax Policy is anywhere near OECD standards or levels of best practice.

 

So it will be changing, as accession talks progress. Will it change to global taxation, time will tell, but global taxation is the OECD preference. So it makes sense that, that is the road that Thailand goes down.

 

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

No, my previous posts do not indicate that at all. My previous posts, backed up by directly linking the OECD website, indicate that the OECD are in favour of Global Taxation.

 

"In favour" is by no means a hard fast requirement.  In case you missed it, i will re-post what I previously posted on this topic. OECD do not, and can not, dictate the taxation system of any country.

 

There is no explicit OECD membership requirement mandating that a country must adopt a global taxation system (taxing worldwide income of residents, regardless of where it is earned or remitted) over a remitted taxation system (taxing only income brought into the country). The OECD does not prescribe a specific tax system as a condition for membership. Instead, OECD membership involves meeting a broad set of criteria related to economic, governance, and policy standards, including commitments to transparency, good governance, and cooperation in international tax matters.

 

To re-iterate, the OECD sets guidelines for tax cooperation, compliance, and transfer pricing rules, but it does not mandate a particular taxation system (global vs. remittance). Instead, it focuses on preventing tax avoidance, encouraging transparency, and ensuring that multinational companies pay their fair share of taxes, especially under its Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) initiative.

 

While OECD countries tend to follow the global taxation system, this is not an explicit requirement for membership. A country can remain an OECD member while implementing a remittance-based or territorial tax system, as long as it adheres to broader OECD principles regarding transparency and anti-tax avoidance measures.

 

In Thailand’s case, the current system taxes foreign-sourced income of residents only when remitted to Thailand, and yes, proposed changes to tax worldwide income (even if not remitted) are being discussed under the excuse to align with global tax practices and OECD standards.

 

These proposals are partly motivated by Thailand’s ambition to join the OECD, suggesting that while not a formal requirement, adopting a global taxation system may be seen as aligning with OECD principles of tax fairness and transparency. However, Thailand’s existing remittance-based system is not inherently incompatible with OECD membership, as evidenced by other non-OECD countries with similar systems (e.g.,possibly  Malaysia ???  .. < unsure >  ... I think Malaysia has been a key partner state of OECD OECD since 2007 ?? (ie not a full OECD member) and I believe Malaysia still has a remitted system, although I believe it has introduced some global taxation aspects (but not all) ...  and perhaps like Thailand they are talking about full global taxation??  ... I may not be up to date here ) ... 

 

When I surfed on this, I read that some countries with a 'purported' territorial (or global) taxation system, in fact have closer to a mix of the two ( ie mix of global and remitted).  These OECD countries being Chile, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Panama, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia (as already mentioned), Guatemala, Thailand (as already discussed in this thread), and to a much lessor extent Mexico.

 

But the point is, my understanding is that there is neither an  OECD policy NOR regulation against a remitted taxation system  , and further some who are OECD members do not have a 'full' global taxation system, but have a mix of global and remitted.

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 OECD do not, and can not, dictate the taxation system of any country.

 

Did you read the OECD link I posted ?

 

https://www.oecd.org/en/about/news/press-releases/2024/10/oecd-kicks-off-accession-process-with-thailand.html

 

Especially this paragraph

 

Quote

As a result of these technical reviews, committees may recommend changes to Thailand’s legislation, policy and practices to bring them further into line with OECD standards and best practices, thus serving as a powerful catalyst for reform and contributing to Thailand’s own domestic reform agenda.

 

 

That is PC speak for, if you wish to join the OECD. You will implement what we tell you.

 

And the current tax regime in Thailand, where some 12 million file a tax return, some 4 million actually pay tax. Is never in a month of Sundays going to pass the OECD sniff test on best practice for the avoidance and evasion of tax.

 

Therefore,  as long as Thailand continues with the current OECD accession path, changes to the tax system will be coming.

12 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Did you read the OECD link I posted ?

 

 

Yes i did.

 

Did you read it?

 

It says NOTHING about a remitted taxation system being an OECD requirement.  You know what requirement means? Right?

 

Rather it is consistent with what I posted.

On 5/22/2025 at 1:19 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

 

Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (Amendment) Order 2024

The Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (Amendment) Order 2024 (“amendment order”) extends the income tax exemption for all types of foreign-source income received by resident individuals (except for income from a Malaysian partnership business that is received in Malaysia from outside Malaysia) until 31 December 2036, provided that the income has been subjected to tax in the jurisdiction of origin (the exemption was previously set to end on 31 December 2026, pursuant to the Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (P.U.(A) 234/2022)). The amendment order will come into operation on 1 January 2027.

Quote: "provided that the income has been subjected to tax in the jurisdiction of origin". I don't see this as an exemption of foreign assets from tax on world-wide income!

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

It says NOTHING about a remitted taxation system being an OECD requirement.

 

Dear Gawd in heaven

 

Do you agree that Thailand is currently going through the accession process to join the OECD ?

 

https://www.oecd.org/en/about/news/press-releases/2024/10/oecd-kicks-off-accession-process-with-thailand.html

 

Do you agree with the following

 

21 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And the current tax regime in Thailand, where some 12 million file a tax return, some 4 million actually pay tax. Is never in a month of Sundays going to pass the OECD sniff test on best practice for the avoidance and evasion of tax.

 

If you agree with the above, then the following applies

 

22 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Therefore,  as long as Thailand continues with the current OECD accession path, changes to the tax system will be coming.

 

You can either accept that changes will be happening as long as Thailand continues on the path of OECD membership.

 

Or you can stick your head in the sand, which is always a great policy. It means you never see things coming up and biting you on the @rse. 

35 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Dear Gawd in heaven

 

Say what?  How silly.  Do you need religion to support your untenable arguments?

 

 

35 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Do you agree that Thailand is currently going through the accession process to join the OECD ?

 

Yes and please note;

 

To re-iterate, the OECD sets guidelines for tax cooperation, compliance, and transfer pricing rules, but it does not mandate a particular taxation system (global vs. remittance). Instead, it focuses on preventing tax avoidance, encouraging transparency, and ensuring that multinational companies pay their fair share of taxes, especially under its Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) initiative.

 

That says NOTHING about a system whether it be 'remitted' or 'global' taxation.

 

Lets stick with facts and not your tangents and illogical religious rants that I quoted above.   OK?  I put such in bold as clearly you missed that.

 

35 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

You can either accept that changes will be happening as long as Thailand continues on the path of OECD membership.

 

Or you can stick your head in the sand, which is always a great policy. It means you never see things coming up and biting you on the @rse. 

 

Who are you arguing with?  Did you read my post above ... or are you just ranting for showmanship and a sense of paranoia.

 

May I politely point out to you where I typed (below a quote from myself):

 

Quote

In Thailand’s case, the current system taxes foreign-sourced income of residents only when remitted to Thailand, and yes, proposed changes to tax worldwide income (even if not remitted) are being discussed under the excuse to align with global tax practices and OECD standards.

 

Clearly you either did NOT read that from my post, or you chose to ignore it because it detracted from the podium you are wobbling on.  May I suggest coming down from your paranoid podium?

 

Let me re-iterate another quote from myself

Quote

 the OECD sets guidelines for tax cooperation, compliance, and transfer pricing rules, but it does not mandate a particular taxation system (global vs. remittance). Instead, it focuses on preventing tax avoidance, encouraging transparency, and ensuring that multinational companies pay their fair share of taxes, especially under its Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) initiative. :

 

Thus far you have totally failed to show ANY OECD REQUIREMENT for a remitted taxation system  to be abandoned.  And do you know why you failed?  You failed because there is none.  OECD does not mandate either a global , territorial nor remitted tax system.  Rather OECD sets guidelines for tax cooperation, compliance, and transfer pricing rules, but it does not mandate a particular taxation system (global vs. remittance). Instead, it focuses on preventing tax avoidance, encouraging transparency, and ensuring that multinational companies pay their fair share of taxes.

 

Perhaps you should just leave this discussion, as you simply do not understand OECD's goals and requirements. 

 

Stick with your religious circle (noting your quote above at the start of this post).