Payment QR Codes

[lkn]

On 4/24/2024 at 10:48 AM, Celsius said:

god forbid that anyone in Europe makes a profit. What kind of stupid law is this where card fees are capped way below 1% while credit card rewards are up to 5% on some cards. That's dumb

The law is there because the market was unfair for the merchants.

 

The merchant is not allowed to charge the fee to the consumer, so most consumers do not know about the payment card fee that the merchant has to pay, and definitely do not care.

 

On the contrary, if the consumer can pick between paying with a card that has 0% cashback or 3% cashback, guess what card they will use? But this cashback is taken directly from the merchant, which probably has to pay >5% for this transaction, compared to 0% had the consumer paid with cash, but VISA/MasterCard have crafted their agreements so that merchant must sell at same price, regardless of payment method.

 

And now that payment cards are ubiquitous, VISA and MasterCard can just raise their interchange fees as they like, because there is effectively no competition, and the consumer won’t care. Only merchants gets squeezed.

 

So that is why we had to pass this law. Personally though, I think it would have been better if the interchange fee was paid by the consumer, because then the consumer would suddenly have an interest in finding the card with the lowest (total) fees, and there would then be real competition between the various payment card providers in lowering their fees.

 

That is how capitalism is supposed to work!

Edited April 28 by lkn

[Everyman]

The Thai QR code payment system has a few shortcomings, such as no options for foreigners without a Thai bank account and relying on buggy and slow banking apps. Even WeChat pay and AliPay in China can be used by foreigners, although with considerable difficulty in setting it up. But at least that system is fast - faster than taking cash, even if exact change. 

 

The problem with being able to link a credit card to the Thai QR code payment system is that you could pay someone in cash using credit. Banks don’t want that because it creates a system where you would be paying the bank back with its own money. There’s also the issue of who would pay the transaction fees.

 

From the Bangkok Bank app there seems to be something called prompt pay international, and you can possibly pay from a Singaporean account using one of their banking apps.

 

So what it will take is for foreign banks to join the prompt pay international system. That seems unlikely.

 

So absent some fintech solution that is foreigner friendly, it’s going to get rocky for people without Thai bank accounts.

 

Edited April 29 by Everyman

[lkn]

5 hours ago, Everyman said:

The problem with being able to link a credit card to the Thai QR code payment system is that you could pay someone in cash using credit. Banks don’t want that because it creates a system where you would be paying the bank back with its own money.

I think this is a US-specific problem, “over there” credit card companies don’t like to have ways for consumers to get their credit converted into cash, because the consumer gets cashback for each transaction, so if the consumer finds a way to spend money and convert the “product” back into the same amount that was spent (e.g. buying dollar coins from the mint with credit card, buying gift cards, etc.) then they can do an arbitrage scheme where they are getting money from nothing.

 

I looked at one credit card company in Europe, and one of the advantages was free currency exchange and unlimited ATM withdrawals. So clearly this company is not concerned about this arbitrage scheme, as they do not give cashback.

 

5 hours ago, Everyman said:

There’s also the issue of who would pay the transaction fees.

I have a few banking services (e.g. Revolut) where I can add a card (from another bank) and then simply “top up” my account with the card that was added.

 

I don’t know if this is just because we have much lower interchange fees in Europe, so Revolut (and others) are willing to pay the fee, or if there actually is a way to get money from a card without a transaction fee.

 

For example, if I use my card to buy groceries, my card issuer earns a transaction fee (from the grocery shop). But if I withdraw cash from an ATM, my card issuer pays a fee to the ATM operator. So there are different transaction types with different fee structures.

[scubascuba3]

On the subject of QR codes, it's great Lazada and Shopee both accept

[Highlandman]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:22 AM, Everyman said:

The Thai QR code payment system has a few shortcomings, such as no options for foreigners without a Thai bank account and relying on buggy and slow banking apps. Even WeChat pay and AliPay in China can be used by foreigners, although with considerable difficulty in setting it up. But at least that system is fast - faster than taking cash, even if exact change. 

 

The problem with being able to link a credit card to the Thai QR code payment system is that you could pay someone in cash using credit. Banks don’t want that because it creates a system where you would be paying the bank back with its own money. There’s also the issue of who would pay the transaction fees.

 

From the Bangkok Bank app there seems to be something called prompt pay international, and you can possibly pay from a Singaporean account using one of their banking apps.

 

So what it will take is for foreign banks to join the prompt pay international system. That seems unlikely.

 

So absent some fintech solution that is foreigner friendly, it’s going to get rocky for people without Thai bank accounts.

 

There are some regional agreements now but I don't see the point of supporting this horrible system.

 

What's wrong with cash? This QR madness will lead to CBDCs which is what the 10000 Baht digital money scam is all about.

 

Just use cash and credit or debit cards for larger expenses. Isn't that hard. It's all I've ever used and all I will ever use. I'll never use a QR code, ever. Even in China I use cash although 99% of the time on recent trips I've had someone pay for me.

[Highlandman]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:26 PM, WalsallRobbo said:

I went to the cycling track near the airport at Bangkok last night. I wanted a drink but nobody would accept cash or card payments. It was just a QR code scan.

How I can get that to work if I just have a UK bank account?

Boycott and tell the merchants why.

[Highlandman]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:40 PM, timendres said:

I walk out of shops that do not take cash.

I can understand a few setups where this might be justifiable.

I still walk out of those.

Life is surely going to get more difficult for me over time...

Ditto 

 

However, if a shop only accepts electronic payment methods including debit and credit cards I can, in some cases, make an exception but I draw the line at QR code only payments. So far I've only seen one shop that is QR code only so far.

[Highlandman]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:45 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Why do you walk out?

I am not a fan of no-cash, but if that is the only option, and if I have a credit card or use QR code or something like that, then I just use it.

 

I ride motorcycle and now more and more parking areas in shopping centers accept only payment with QR code. 10 THB paid with QR. I think it is silly, and I would prefer to give them 10B or 20B cash. But that option doesn't exist anymore. So, I pay with QR. I get used to it. Accept it. Live goes on.

 

It exists. You pay inside in cash.

[Highlandman]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:45 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Why do you walk out?

I am not a fan of no-cash, but if that is the only option, and if I have a credit card or use QR code or something like that, then I just use it.

 

I ride motorcycle and now more and more parking areas in shopping centers accept only payment with QR code. 10 THB paid with QR. I think it is silly, and I would prefer to give them 10B or 20B cash. But that option doesn't exist anymore. So, I pay with QR. I get used to it. Accept it. Live goes on.

 

To send a message. People like you are ensuring we walk head first into a cashless society. 

 

I am fine with a cash only store. In fact, I embrace cash only. On rare occasions when I have no option but to charge something to my credit card that day and/or there's no ATM around then it's slightly frustrating if cards aren't accepted, but the shop next door will probably accept credit cards and of course the fact I don't have cash at that particular moment is my problem. 

 

I don't like seeing cash or QR code but no credit cards as I think they should either accept cash only or everything, but since cash is an option, I'm covered. 

 

If it's QR code only (which is rare so far) its a huge boycott from me.

[Highlandman]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:54 PM, nrasmussen said:

 

Apparently too few for the vendors to bother.

 

Why wouldn't vendors accept cash? This is Thailand! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

 

I can understand vendors not taking credit cards but cash is legal tender and must be accepted!

[Highlandman]

On 4/22/2024 at 9:10 AM, WalsallRobbo said:

There were no locals to ask. It was really hot and I wanted a drink. I am not going to get a Thai bank account just to get a drink. It was a bit of a farce. Thankfully, this is the first time this has happened. I hope it is the last.

I didn't even know there were vendors on that track. Isn't it illegal for them to set up there at the airport?

 

What you should have done is made your way to the Bang Chak or PTT station (both are next to each other) and bought yourself a drink there.

 

They all accept cash and even cards.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Highlandman said:

Why wouldn't vendors accept cash?

I guess the main reason will be fraught.

If you sell coffee with cash, I guess it is relatively easy for the cashier to "forget" to type everything in the cash register.

Maybe every hour 100B or 200B or maybe even more can easily get lost.

If owners want to make sure that doesn't happen, then do everything cashless.

In some places like i.e. coffee shops, I guess the majority of guests can easily pay with QR code and don't care if they can't pay in cash.

 

Do I like no cash? No. Will I walk 500m to avoid it? Likely no. And with things like that I am pretty sure that people who insist on cash are only very few. Too few to make an impact. 

[Yellowtail]

It is also non-contact, so less hand washing and whatnot. 

 

And no chance of being robbed, no going to the bank, no cash register, etc. 

[nrasmussen]

2 hours ago, Highlandman said:

 

Why wouldn't vendors accept cash? This is Thailand! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

 

I can understand vendors not taking credit cards but cash is legal tender and must be accepted!

 

My guess is that it's because there are too few customers insisting on paying with cash for the vendors to bother with the hassle and expenses of handling cash.

[Lorry]

On 4/24/2024 at 1:48 PM, ianguygil said:

Many benefits and almost no disadvantages I can see as long as you ..... do not want the authorities to know about income.

That's a VERY big disadvantage. 

It's not only income,  its expenses too - your whole economic life you send immediately to "the authorities". And in a capitalist society,  there is not much else than economic life.

 

Another disadvantage is, I spend and don't notice how my wallet gets ever more empty. So people will spend a lot more.

Of course,  businesses and maybe economists see this as an advantage. 

 

BTW i had to pay Starbucks with a QR code today,  it was much more complicated than just handing over 2 banknotes.

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, Highlandman said:

There are some regional agreements now but I don't see the point of supporting this horrible system.

 

What's wrong with cash? This QR madness will lead to CBDCs which is what the 10000 Baht digital money scam is all about.

 

Just use cash and credit or debit cards for larger expenses. Isn't that hard. It's all I've ever used and all I will ever use. I'll never use a QR code, ever. Even in China I use cash although 99% of the time on recent trips I've had someone pay for me.

another person who doesn't move with the times

[brewsterbudgen]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

another person who doesn't move with the times

There is always resistance to change, but eventually most adapt.  

[digbeth]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:22 AM, Everyman said:

The Thai QR code payment system has a few shortcomings, such as no options for foreigners without a Thai bank account and relying on buggy and slow banking apps. Even WeChat pay and AliPay in China can be used by foreigners, although with considerable difficulty in setting it up. But at least that system is fast - faster than taking cash, even if exact change. 

 

The problem with being able to link a credit card to the Thai QR code payment system is that you could pay someone in cash using credit. Banks don’t want that because it creates a system where you would be paying the bank back with its own money. There’s also the issue of who would pay the transaction fees.

 

From the Bangkok Bank app there seems to be something called prompt pay international, and you can possibly pay from a Singaporean account using one of their banking apps.

 

So what it will take is for foreign banks to join the prompt pay international system. That seems unlikely.

 

So absent some fintech solution that is foreigner friendly, it’s going to get rocky for people without Thai bank accounts.

 

 

Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Hongkong banks can use Promptpay QR to pay in Thailand now, and vice versa for Thai accounts holder going  to those countries so cross border qr are becoming more common.

 

QR linked credit cards seem up to each merchant to accept, as they'll be paying the usual transaction fee if their customers pay be credit card via QR, if the mechant is stupid enough to pay out someone in cash when they paid using QR credit card the burden of the transaction fee is on the merchant, regular people with just bank account can't accept QR payment using credit cards

[digbeth]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:26 PM, WalsallRobbo said:

I went to the cycling track near the airport at Bangkok last night. I wanted a drink but nobody would accept cash or card payments. It was just a QR code scan.

How I can get that to work if I just have a UK bank account?

 

It is unfortunate, the cycling track used to have a bracelet that you use to enter the gate that you can load money into and use to pay for things within the track but they have phrased the using of the bracelet to pay for things out  now, but most shops inside there is only setup for cashless since the beginning.  SCB bank was the main sponsor of the track and they sort of trialed the bracelet payment but it went nowhere after people start using QR more

 

There used to be that for non cyclist visiting you can get a card from the main office that works like the bracelet and load money onto them like food court card, you can get it from either the office or there's a booth between the food stalls you can get the card from 

[BKKKevin]

Gotta move with the times... 

 

Edited May 1 by BKKKevin

[itsari]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:42 AM, gargamon said:

Everyone misses the point behind QR codes. There is no chance of theft by the merchant's employees if they don't get to handle cash. Inconvenience for customers is irrelevant. 

QR codes can be switched to a fraudsters account . Most definately theft is possible using QR codes

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

QR codes can be switched to a fraudsters account . Most definately theft is possible using QR codes

You scan the QR code, show the shop-keeper the name on the screen (check or enter the amount) and ask 'is this you?'

Now explain to me how there can be fraud or theft?

[scubascuba3]

27 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You scan the QR code, show the shop-keeper the name on the screen (check or enter the amount) and ask 'is this you?'

Now explain to me how there can be fraud or theft?

Old folk seem to be worried about anything and everything new, my parents never used an ATM, fearing them

[WilliamSmits]

You have places that don't accept cash and places that don't accept digital payments (market stalls)

Digital is preferred it seems to stop employees from handling money, cash is preferred to keep income hidden from the taxman. 

Best to have both. I prefer cash but use the phone or cc at "trusted" places...

[itsari]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You scan the QR code, show the shop-keeper the name on the screen (check or enter the amount) and ask 'is this you?'

Now explain to me how there can be fraud or theft?

Many people do not check the name . Fraudsters know that .

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, itsari said:

Many people do not check the name . Fraudsters know that .

So, they sneak in and swap the QR code while the shop owner is not paying attention? 

 

Does the shop owner's phone not beep when they receive the funds? 

[itsari]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, they sneak in and swap the QR code while the shop owner is not paying attention? 

 

Does the shop owner's phone not beep when they receive the funds? 

 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, itsari said:

 

So you don't know, I thought not, thanks! 

[itsari]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

So you don't know, I thought not, thanks! 

Thanks so much to you too for your ignorance 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 4/23/2024 at 9:18 PM, Puccini said:

Some countries have laws that make it illegal to refuse to accept payment with banknotes and coins that are legal tender in the respective countries. Has Thailand no such law?

Which countries have laws that make it illegal for traders to have policies that they will only accept digital payments and not cash for their goods or services?