Frozen pension policy turns British expat's dream into a nightmare

[Chongalulu]

17 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

At least the British old age pension is not means tested so everyone gets it. The Australian old age pension is means and asset tested and anyone who has worked hard to generate a modest independent income in retirement will not receive it.

 

Plus, any independent income will be taxed at a flat 33% if living overseas.

Not quite - you have to have 35 years of NI contributions to get the full state pension (pro rata if you have less but subject to 10 years minimum). There have been discussions about it becoming means tested in face of the increasing burden of the state pension however. I think it will eventually come to that - not something I agreed with.

[Asquith Production]

1 minute ago, Chongalulu said:

What makes you think pensions are under the remit of the UN? Yes it’s in my view unfair,but an internal fiscal U.K. matter.

They are not and did not say they were. Its about the discrimination and inequality that they show.

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, worgeordie said:

it's called  inflation , Brexit did not help , Then Covid  , ,I don't think anyone thought  things

would turn out like this , I am still on 90 quid a week ,good job I don't need it as provided

for myself before retiring at 42 , But I can feel for those relying here on pension only, no

way will we get any relief from the British Government ,too busy looking after immigrants.

 

regards Worgeordie

I agree, the British government, no matter which party, has never overly concerned themselves much with the people they are supposed to represent, any progress made since the industrial revolution has been due to some very brave men and women who fought for basic rights under the threat of imprisonment or worse. British pensions are not a right, they are classed as a benefit. Luckily I spent most of my working life in Germany and get a good (tax free) state pension and company pension with increases paid every year no matter where I live in the world after retiring at the age of 58. I do get a British pension of 37 pounds a week. I haven't been to the UK for 54 years, they can keep their 'island home'.

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

https://britishpensions.com/are-you-receiving-a-uk-state-pension/

 

https://www.canzukinternational.com/2023/02/canadian-mp-urges-canada-uk-to-negotiate-end-of-frozen-pensions.html

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2024-02-19/debates/24021975000085/FrozenBritishPensions

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension

 

However, pensioners resident in the USA receive the annual increases

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all those links OG but they still fail to address the post I asked for verification for. I am not trying to catch anyone out but trying to piece the jigsaw together. 

 

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Providing DWP with copies of the Philippines in and out stamps in your passport proving that you are living there for the required number of days will be if you're not living there.

 

[Wobblybob]

38 minutes ago, itsari said:

If caught falsifying your place of residence your pension payments would cease. 

Again can you verify that statement as I don't believe it, thanks. 😕

[Neeranam]

Stop moaning and get a part time job. 

I only worked in the UK for 5 years but will get the full pension if I continue to pay £160 or so a year in voluntary class B contributions. 

Great ROI unless I die. 

UK state pension is a bonus, it's all about perspective. 

I can build a 4 bedroom house with a pool here for under £50,000, for example. I can live in a hotel and eat breakfast, lunch and dinner in a restaurant, and a bottle of whisky daily all for £170 a week. 

Better than a council flat in Aberdeen, with sideways rain, wearing a wooly bunnet, eating beans on toast. 

[Asquith Production]

1 hour ago, dougieboy said:

If you have 36 qualifying years you are entitled to your pension, you’ve earned it. 
so for them to then freeze it just because you choose to live elsewhere is nothing short of criminal. 
Time for change but don’t hold your breath!

Exactly. We are discriminated against based on our address.

[wensiensheng]

It’s not a new policy, so one that should have been factored into their decision making in terms of where they should retire.

 

Also, if they lived in the UK, even though they might get an increased pension, their cost of living would be far far higher. Overall They would be far worse off than they are now.

 

anyway, I can’t see much point bleating about it to foreign press. Make whatever decisions you need to make to continue retirement and get on.

[fasteddie]

12 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

In 1946, there was the first uplift, which wasn't paid out to pensioners outside of Great Britain. The National Insurance Act 1946  contained a general  disqualification for payment of benefits absent from Great Britain, together with power for regulations to remove the disqualification. Upratings, of which there were three between July 1948 and July 1955, were not payable to persons not resident in Great Britain. The formal policy was made in 1955. Subsequent regulations providing for pension increases have continued to have the same effect. Between 1948 and 1955, the UK entered into reciprocal agreements with France, Italy, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, which provided for payment of retirement pension in the countries concerned. Upratings were paid. Pensions were also payable, by a special arrangement, in  Ireland but were not uprated until 1966. Until 1973, recipricol arrangements were made with 30 countries to allow pension increases. This stopped in 1981. In July 1995, there was a parliamentary debate on the Pension Bill amendments for upratings to be paid, defeated by large majorities.

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1995-05-04/debates/0f8a64d2-9e26-4fc8-813d-2504e909e8ae/Pensions(Expatriates)

 

In theory, all UK pensioners could go home, and their pensions increased to the current rate.

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1994-07-06/debates/6df169bc-8bd2-4d30-909b-312ad520b9d4/OverseasPensioners

 

William Hague pointed out that todays NI contributions pays for today's pensioner, not your future pension. So arguments about paying into a system for future entitlement falls fat on its face. There isn't the money to pay for overseas pensioners, who mostly don't vote, who mostly don't pay taxes, to have their pension increased.

Oh William Hague said so did he? Did he mention that many people die before ever receiving their pension, the pension that they and their employers paid for all their working lives? Where do those pension contributions go then? William Hague indeed 😂

[JoePai]

9 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Again can you verify that statement as I don't believe it, thanks. 😕

I know of 2 in Pattaya who had to pay back the 'over claimed' UK pension when the Gov found out where they lived  

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, JoePai said:

I know of 2 in Pattaya who had to pay back the 'over claimed' UK pension when the Gov found out where they lived  

Sorry Joe, but that is hearsay, a link to a credible source is what's needed. 

 

 

[baansgr]

10 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

A retiree today would be claiming 220 quid under the new state pension scheme.  It seems wrong.  People leave it a bit late to do anything about it- a solution for example would be a reset by moving back to UK for a year, or Philippines perhaps.

 

In the end I think the only reasons were - A. It would cost too much.  B. Nobody cares that much in the UK.  In fact some blood thirsty wolves were all for cancelling the pension completely.  Campaigners shot everyone in the foot by vigorously demanding that a rise be backdated.

But when you leave, I believe it goes back to the original time and amount when you left the country 

[TPI]

Fly to France, get on a plank and row to England...no problem, money for jam? Don't forget to tell them you're a muslim with four wives and 30 children!!

[retarius]

11 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

If I was in the UK, I would receive an uprated Pension , Pension Credit, Housing Benefit, Winter Fuel Allowance, free NHS treatment ( which in my case would be quite expensive), a Bus Pass and probably other benefits and allowances. It should easily double, and more, what I cost the state!

Well move back there then. Don't whine on AN.

[herfiehandbag]

6 minutes ago, retarius said:

Well move back there then. Don't whine on AN.

Thank you for that meaningful contribution to the discussion - entirely unconnected I am sure with a recent "clash" ( on the subject of Trumpion shenanigans if I recall) on "AN".

 

Nothing quite like waiting poised, the irony still vaguely lukewarm, until an opportunity to strike!

Edited April 27 by herfiehandbag

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

What year did the frozen pension policy come into effect ?

 

1948

[delh]

How, exactly, didn't Brexit help?

[newbee2022]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

 

Foreigners resident in Thailand are beginning to feel a financial strain due to the UK government's pension freeze policy. Three British individuals have experienced this challenge, providing insights about a difficult reality that contrasts sharply with the country's sunny appeal.

 

John Jones, 77, had enjoyed a lively international lifestyle but now, due to the frozen pension policy, his retirement plans are suffering. Residing in rural Thailand, Jones struggles with a heart condition adding to his financial woes.

 

Rising living costs are hitting him particularly hard. According to Jones, market items that were affordable thirteen years ago now seem overly expensive. The budget constraints hinder any saving capacities and he lives quite a simple life.

 

His fellow Briton, Jeffrey Barnes, 77, from Offham, Kent, shares a similar fate. Although receiving a comfortable private pension, the unfairness of the frozen state pension policy aggravates him.

 

Meanwhile, 55-year-old Linz Gelthorpe and his 61-year-old wife, Julie, find their dream relocation to Thailand tarnished by unforeseen financial challenges.

 

The problem lies in the UK Government’s position to freeze state pensions for its nationals living in non-European countries like Thailand. The policy precludes them from receiving the annual increment accessible to those residing in the UK. Reportedly, it affects over 480,000 globally.

 

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), despite mounting criticism, stands by this policy, asserting that it has been in place for over 70 years. However, this isn't much consolation for the British foreigners who are still managing these financial realities.

 

 

 

Photo: Creative Common License via Google

 

-- 2024-04-26

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The UK's policy is easy to understand. 

If you're in Thailand you don't contribute anything to UK. You're not consuming nor buying anything in UK.

And if people complaining about coming hospital expenses in the future, then I've to ask why you don't have any insurance? If you cannot afford just stay in UK. Even there you'll have hot summers.🙏

[delh]

13 hours ago, worgeordie said:

it's called  inflation , Brexit did not help , Then Covid  , ,I don't think anyone thought  things

would turn out like this , I am still on 90 quid a week ,good job I don't need it as provided

for myself before retiring at 42 , But I can feel for those relying here on pension only, no

way will we get any relief from the British Government ,too busy looking after immigrants.

 

regards Worgeordie

 

[Neeranam]

28 minutes ago, JoePai said:

I know of 2 in Pattaya who had to pay back the 'over claimed' UK pension when the Gov found out where they lived  

How did the govt find out?

 

 

[delh]

How, exactly didn't Brexit help British  government policy on pensions?

And how, exactly has Covid influenced British government rulings on pension increases for non EU overseas pension payments?

Edited April 27 by delh
Failed to attach original comment

[Neeranam]

I thought it was only youngsters my kids age that had a sense of entitlement. 

[KhunLA]

Better research / planning ... happier retirement ... 

 

"find their dream relocation to Thailand tarnished by unforeseen financial challenges.

 

stands by this policy, asserting that it has been in place for over 70 years.'

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, delh said:

How, exactly didn't Brexit help British  government policy on pensions?

And how, exactly has Covid influenced British government rulings on pension increases for non EU overseas pension payments?

Leaving unions affects finances in a big way. 

Of Scotland leaves UK, the English will lose lots in oil revenue, and Scots will get better pensions, for example. 

Edited April 27 by Neeranam

[Wobblybob]

Just now, KhunLA said:

Better research / planning ... happier retirement ... 

 

"find their dream relocation to Thailand tarnished by unforeseen financial challenges.

 

stands by this policy, asserting that it has been in place for over 70 years.'

Yet some people appear to navigate around this issue whilst others don't appear to want to help themselves. 🥴

[JoePai]

29 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Sorry Joe, but that is hearsay, a link to a credible source is what's needed. 

 

 

Nonsense - I know these 2 !

[JoePai]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How did the govt find out?

 

 

They both (totally separately) fell foul of the Tax authorities in the UK - and were investigated  

[delh]

8 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

The UK's policy is easy to understand. 

If you're in Thailand you don't contribute anything to UK. You're not consuming nor buying anything in UK.

And if people complaining about coming hospital expenses in the future, then I've to ask why you don't have any insurance? If you cannot afford just stay in UK. Even there you'll have hot summers.🙏

The fact that people have contributed to their pensions entitles them to the same benefits as everyone else.

 

British pensioners living across Europe have increased, whats the difference on location?

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, Keeps said:

It probably would not have been an issue for the first couple of decades as not many people would have retired overseas. Now however, wholly unfair.

Quite the opposite, as you said it came about at the outset because at the time there was significant emigration such as the assisted passage scheme to Australia.

Successive government have deliberately misinterpreted the intention to suit their own agenda and the subsequent reciprocal agreements created legalised discrimination.

There is a significant difference between people heading off at an early age for a new life in the colonies and people going into retirement having paid full NI throughout their working life.

[Wobblybob]

5 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Nonsense - I know these 2 !

I don't, it is hearsay!