Poll - New Tax Rule, What Will YOU Do?

[Skeptic7]

Didn't see the poll in time (seems it had an extremely short lifespan) so didn't get a chance to partake. My vote is #2...Even if it goes ahead, I'm not planning to do anything differently.

 

Just carry on as usual. Ignorance is bliss...especially here in the Land Of It. Until someone official knocks at my door with a tax bill...zero action on my part. And in the highly unlikely event that ever happens, then in typically ignorant Thai style...cue that silly Thai laugh "huhhuhuh mai roo...mai kao jai...bpen arai...tao rai?...huhuhuh". 

[Ralf001]

I'd like to pay less tax.... but that aint gunna happen !

[Black arab]

20 hours ago, Moonlover said:

According to the figures that you posted earlier in the year @Mike Lister I will not be liable for tax here anyway, due to the fact that the bulk of my income is in the form of an UK armed forces pension, which they cannot tax anyway.

 

But I'd rather do without the irksome administration of having to prove that to them, so I opted for 'not planning to do anything differently'.

Hi ML

I am also on a UK Govt pension, I've had clarification from a tax consultant here in Thailand not to file a tax return,as it's non assessible.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

We won't mention the 4% who think the new rule will be cancelled...

I voted 'I will wait until next year to see what happens before deciding.' But having lived in Thailand for a considerable time, I believe it's within the realm of possibility that the powers that be may instruct the Revenue Department to shelve the recently introduced tax rule change in the not-so-distant future. If not, then I naturally will comply with the rules as prescribed but would consider relocating if it weren't for ties here in Thailand and advanced age.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

Well, I’ve owned a condo in Thailand for 5 years, together with a 20 year visa, and with a formerly planned 200 days in Thailand and 80 or so days in each of Europe and Australia, Thailand was going to be effectively my home more than anywhere else.

In light of those things, I would consider you a full time resident.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

But if Thailand does not match those tax advantages, one could fall into a higher Thailand tax bracket than a US tax bracket - thus, causing (albeit small) an additional Thailand income tax that would not violate the tax treaty?

However, three of the four LTR visa categories are exempt from Thai taxation by Royal Proclamation. Period. So any exceptions to the double taxation treaty do not apply.

[Old Croc]

I transferred funds for this year in December so won't have anything to declare next year. I expect things will have been clarified for 2026 and, if necessary, plan on transferring a lot less in the traditional manner in the future.

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

On 5/3/2024 at 12:06 PM, BritManToo said:

I decided not to buy a new car this year.

Maybe we should organise a spending strike?

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Didn't see the poll in time (seems it had an extremely short lifespan) so didn't get a chance to partake. My vote is #2...Even if it goes ahead, I'm not planning to do anything differently.

 

Just carry on as usual. Ignorance is bliss...especially here in the Land Of It. Until someone official knocks at my door with a tax bill...zero action on my part. And in the highly unlikely event that ever happens, then in typically ignorant Thai style...cue that silly Thai laugh "huhhuhuh mai roo...mai kao jai...bpen arai...tao rai?...huhuhuh". 

Sorry, I was after a snapshot in time and thought 24 hours was probably long enough. I'll make sure you get to vote first in the next one. :))

[Caldera]

For me, it's a no-brainer. Having seen the capricious nature of Thai officials at work elsewhere, I have zero interest in dealing with yet another Thai government department (the taxman). So I'll make sure that I won't be a tax resident. 

[Caldera]

15 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Didn't see the poll in time (seems it had an extremely short lifespan) so didn't get a chance to partake.

 

Indeed, whoever set up that poll did it as idiotically as possible.

[QuantumQuandry]

Some people certainly are confident (over confident?) that they know exactly what will happen...

 

I am certainly not one of them.  Wake me up when there's real action.  Until then, I am staying mobile and investing nothing in Thailand.

[Dioj]

18 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Just carry on as usual. Ignorance is bliss...especially here in the Land Of It. Until someone official knocks at my door with a tax bill...zero action on my part. And in the highly unlikely event that ever happens, then in typically ignorant Thai style...cue that silly Thai laugh "huhhuhuh mai roo...mai kao jai...bpen arai...tao rai?...huhuhuh". 

That likely won't work if planning on renewing a long term visa in Thailand after March 2025. You will most likely need to present a copy to immigration of your 2024 tax filing that you made to the Thai RD in order to be able to renew your visa. That means you will need to file a tax return to the RD in Thailand for the 2024 tax year by no later than end of March 2025. That's why many foreigners planning to remain on a long term visa in Thailand after March 2025 are even considering and reviewing this matter. 

[pub2022]

I will leave the day after if they ask me to pay taxes. What I pay in my country is already enough.

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

Indeed, whoever set up that poll did it as idiotically as possible.

Idiot here! And what would you have done, just so that we can all learn from your wisdom?

[Skeptic7]

21 minutes ago, Dioj said:

That likely won't work if planning on renewing a long term visa in Thailand after March 2025. You will most likely need to present a copy to immigration of your 2024 tax filing that you made to the Thai RD in order to be able to renew your visa. That means you will need to file a tax return to the RD in Thailand for the 2024 tax year by no later than end of March 2025. That's why many foreigners planning to remain on a long term visa in Thailand after March 2025 are even considering and reviewing this matter. 

Hmmmm...if that proves to be the case...same as a knock on the door...and they will have forced my otherwise idle hands. Will then have to take the proper and necessary actions. Still dubious, presently.

[Dioj]

3 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Hmmmm...if that proves to be the case...same as a knock on the door...and they will have forced my otherwise idle hands. Will then have to take the proper and necessary actions. Still dubious, presently.

Unfortunately I think that is going to be the case because it will serve as the easiest mechanism of enforcement that they have to ensure that foreigners are complying with the recent changes to the Thai personal income tax laws on overseas income remitted into Thailand. 

[Caldera]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Idiot here! And what would you have done, just so that we can all learn from your wisdom?

 

I would have let the poll run longer, so that more of us would have had a chance to see it on time to vote. I thought that was made clear by the post I quoted in agreement, my apologies. 

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

I would have let the poll run longer, so that more of us would have had a chance to see it on time to vote. I thought that was made clear by the post I quoted in agreement, my apologies. 

I only wanted a snapshot. I figured 24 hours was enough and over a hundred people voted so that was enough. We'll do it again in a few months and let that one run longer.

[Yumthai]

5 hours ago, Dioj said:

Unfortunately I think that is going to be the case because it will serve as the easiest mechanism of enforcement that they have to ensure that foreigners are complying with the recent changes to the Thai personal income tax laws on overseas income remitted into Thailand. 

How will TRD deal with the millions of Thai citizens who wrongly don't file tax returns, will they be yearly required to pass through immigration too?

[JohnnyBD]

6 hours ago, Dioj said:

That likely won't work if planning on renewing a long term visa in Thailand after March 2025. You will most likely need to present a copy to immigration of your 2024 tax filing that you made to the Thai RD in order to be able to renew your visa. That means you will need to file a tax return to the RD in Thailand for the 2024 tax year by no later than end of March 2025. That's why many foreigners planning to remain on a long term visa in Thailand after March 2025 are even considering and reviewing this matter. 

This is purely speculation, that Immigration will become the tax enforcer for TRD. No word from any official source on that ever happening. First, not everyone who gets a long-term visa is a tax resident, and if you are not a tax resident, you have no obligation to file a tax return, and no obligation to prove anything to Immigration. Second, even if you are a tax resident, if you remit less than the tax filing threshold, you are not required to file a tax return. So, until we hear first-hand from an official source, this is purely speculation and should be viewed as such, so as not to worry people.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

This is purely speculation by you, that Immigration will become the tax enforcer for TRD. No word from any official source on that ever happening. First, not everyone who gets a long-term visa is a tax resident, and if you are not, then you have no obligation to file a tax return, and no obligation to prove anything to Immigration. Secondly, even if you are a tax resident, if you remit less than the tax filing threshold, then you are not required to file a tax return. I don't see Immigration getting involved in this at all and until we hear first-hand from an official source on this, it's purely speculation and should be taken as such.

I mostly agree.

[Skeptic7]

43 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

How will TRD deal with the millions of Thai citizens who wrongly don't file tax returns, will they be yearly required to pass through immigration too?

Good post/question and I thought of posting almost exactly what you wrote above, but as it's all only speculation now...decided against it. Glad u did.👍 However...T.I.T. where the foreigners/expats are always the targets🎯 at the top of their hit list. 

[OldmanJ]

I believe us Australians have a similar rule as the people from the US.I live off of my superannuation income pension account only at the moment as this is my only source of income and I must wait 6 years to obtain my OAP at 67 from the Australian government and is taxed in Australia so I won't be paying double tax.

 

[JohnnyBD]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I mostly agree.

I'm not sure which part you don't agree with, but to put that one sentence in the proper context, "no obligation to prove anything to Immigration" was meant as "no obligation to provide a Thai tax return to Immigration, if not a tax resident", and it was in response to the original poster. IM can check anyone's passport to verify if that person was a tax resident, but they are not currently requiring long-term visa holders to provide Thai tax returns. And, even if they started doing that, non-tax residents are not required to file a Thai tax return, so they would be under no obligation to provide one to IM. Until we hear first-hand from an official source, this is just speculation. I hope we can agree on that.

[bkk_mike]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:15 AM, OldmanJ said:

I believe us Australians have a similar rule as the people from the US.I live off of my superannuation income pension account only at the moment as this is my only source of income and I must wait 6 years to obtain my OAP at 67 from the Australian government and is taxed in Australia so I won't be paying double tax.

 

Just going to highlight that double taxation agreements technically don't mean that you might not have to pay tax in both countries. (unless the DTA says that particular type of income is only taxed in one jurisdiction).

It generally says where you pay the tax first, and the tax paid in the first country can offset the tax due in the second country.

It's only where the first country is the only country collecting taxes, or where the first country's tax is higher than the second country's tax - that you wouldn't have to pay anything to the second country.

 

The nastiness generally comes with something that's tax exempt in one country, but not tax exempt in the other. As then you're paying tax on something where you didn't expect to pay tax on it.

[oldcpu]

I also missed the poll - ....  I am on an LTR visa and I do not plan to file a Thaliand tax return for my foreign sourced money brought into Thailand (which consists of various pensions and savings, that in the most part have already been taxed (and are hence also covered by DTA with other countries.)

 

I also brought more than normal foreign sourced (savings and my income) into Thailand BEFORE 1-Jan-2024 (ie in the month of Nov-2023 and Dec-2023) so it will be a few years before I need to bring foreign sourced money into Thailand again.

 

Still - I could end up filing a Thailand tax return, as just the low interest I obtain from money in Thailand banks, has me hovering very close to the requirement to file a Thailand tax return for interest money earned in Thailand.  I have tried to keep my annual interest under 150,000 THB per year (I think that is the 'line' where if one reaches that one needs to file a Thailand tax return), but interest rates change, and I could find myself above that amount if I am not careful.   Most people shuffle their money to get more interest, but in Thailand to avoid having to submit a tax return, I do the opposite.  lol !  < just kidding >

.

[federicoP]

I will continue to do what I have done for the last 10 years: I pay taxes on my pension in Thailand and save compared to what I would have had to pay in my native country (Italy)

[rickudon]

Using Mke Listers very useful tax guide posted earlier this year, i am reasonably confident that i will pay no tax. I am over 65, married and have a child, on a marriage visa. I bring in 40,000 a month usually so would have  little or no tax liability at that level. Also get a civil service pension which should be tax exempt in Thailand under the UK dta. Only issue is proving the provenance of where the money comes from, as i aggregate and recirculate income through 3 different accounts plus saving accounts (because in the UK i get preferential interest rates by doing this).

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Using Mke Listers very useful tax guide posted earlier this year, i am reasonably confident that i will pay no tax. I am over 65, married and have a child, on a marriage visa. I bring in 40,000 a month usually so would have  little or no tax liability at that level. Also get a civil service pension which should be tax exempt in Thailand under the UK dta. Only issue is proving the provenance of where the money comes from, as i aggregate and recirculate income through 3 different accounts plus saving accounts (because in the UK i get preferential interest rates by doing this).

If you factor in the allowances for your wife and child, it looks like you will be in line for a combined TEDA and zero rated amount of over 600k, that should take care of your current income and give you some extra headroom if you wish.

 

Aggregated accounts or commingled funds can be difficult, if there's any way to separate the feeds into different accounts, you should consider doing so. It was this issue that made me decide to have my pensions deposited directly into my Thai bank account and I'm seriously happy I did, it works like clock work and everyone knows what is what.

 

Since you only have to be concerned with income that was earned from 1 January 2024 onwards, it shouldn't be a major undertaking to make sure you have a spreadsheet or two that accounts for the income and to obtain bank statements regularly. There again, the chances that you will be asked to prove the sources of those funds is not high in the first place so I wouldn't loose sleep if I were you.