grammar question

[Pouatchee]

i have been <deleted> by a sentence i taught to my students.

 

--> I played with my friend yesterday./Yesterday I played with my friend.

 

knowing that the passive voice cannot be construed with intransitive verbs i checked to make sure play, as in my examples, is not intransitive and as per my example it is transitive. play can be intransitive but it then does not quite mean the same thing as my sentence. 

 

Quote

Therefore, the verb ' plays' is a transitive verb. an object is either a NOUN or a PRONOUN. An object always goes after a verb. Most of the transitive verbs take only one object after them, but some transitive verbs take two objects after them.

 

this is the best chat gpt came up with...

 

Quote

My friend and I were played with yesterday.

 

the chatgpt answer seems perverted a bit

 

i would appreciate an explanation as to why my example cannot be 'passive voiced'

 

regards

Edited May 10 by Rimmer
vulgarity edited out

[mfd101]

Play the piano, Play rugby, Play with my friend, Play with a toy ... These and many others are various uses of the verb 'play'. Look up the Oxford Dictionary of English (online) for many many examples. English verbs are complex and there's no easy way to explain them to foreigners. Only practice practice practice in reading and speaking will do the trick over time ...

 

And playing around with simplistic and largely out-of-date concepts like 'transitive' and 'intransitive' will get you nowhere, whether for your own understanding or that of Thai kids.

[Moonlover]

Using AI to correct the grammar of our language could lead us into very murky waters.

 

English is my native language and I have a very sound knowledge of grammar, but I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. It hasn't hindered me and doubt whether it will hinder your students.

 

By the way, you're an English teacher I gather. What has become of capitalization?

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Only practice practice practice in reading and speaking will do the trick over time ...

Reading what? AN?

Speaking with whom? People from all over the world in Thailand?

[mfd101]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Reading what? AN?

Speaking with whom? People from all over the world in Thailand?

He was talking about teaching students ... I'm rather old so probably out of touch but I had thought that speaking in English in class and reading English-language texts might have been part of the process ...

[oldscool]

The passive voice version of your example would be.

 

Yesterday I was played with by my friend./ Yesterday my friend was played with by me.

 

Neither has occurred in real speech of course, like so many grammar exercises. Also, the meaning of verb is not same in passive

 

So how about...

 

Bridge was commonly played by expats in colonial times, but to pass the time these days comments are posted on forums.

 

Your examples are not really transitive, a transitive example would be:

 

My friends played me./I was played by my friends.

 

Note that there are 3 meanings of "play" above and in your example.

 

1. Indulge in recreation.

2. Sexually interfere with.

3. Trick.

 

Therein lies the problem.

 

 

[retarius]

What the hell does any student of English need to know this for? My experiences with the teaching of English in Thailand  is that it is full of arcane grammar and devoid of speaking.

[5davidhen1]

21 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Using AI to correct the grammar of our language could lead us into very murky waters.

 

English is my native language and I have a very sound knowledge of grammar, but I haven't got a clue what you're talking about. It hasn't hindered me and doubt whether it will hinder your students.

 

By the way, you're an English teacher I gather. What has become of capitalization?

 

 

Hear hear!

[NoDisplayName]

54 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

i have been buggered by a sentence i taught to my students.

 

What does chatgpt give you for options with this sentence?

It's transitive, right?

[ballpoint]

Yes, I was always worried about this sort of thing as a two year old learning to talk.

[Chris Daley]

Played is a transitive action verb if it takes an object.  The object is ''friend'' so it is transitive.

 

It doesn't matter where yesterday is in the sentence.

 

Active voice:  I played with my friend yesterday.

Short passive:  Yesterday my friend was played with.

Long passive:  Yesterday my friend was played with by me.

[mogandave]

How does chat got know you’re gay? That’s a bit creepy.

[Chris Daley]

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

The passive voice version of your example would be.

 

Yesterday I was played with by my friend./ Yesterday my friend was played with by me.

 

Neither has occurred in real speech of course, like so many grammar exercises. Also, the meaning of verb is not same in passive

 

So how about...

 

Bridge was commonly played by expats in colonial times, but to pass the time these days comments are posted on forums.

 

Your examples are not really transitive, a transitive example would be:

 

My friends played me./I was played by my friends.

 

Note that there are 3 meanings of "play" above and in your example.

 

1. Indulge in recreation.

2. Sexually interfere with.

3. Trick.

 

Therein lies the problem.

 

 

 

No that is wrong.  Passive doesn't change the meaning.

 

It would still be him playing with the friend.  Not the friend playing with him.

 

For example: 

 

Active voice:  Germany invaded Poland.

Passive:  Poland was invaded.

According to you:  Poland invaded Germany.

 

 

Edited May 9 by Chris Daley

[oldscool]

Yes of course passives don't change the meaning. My point is that there are 3 different meanings in play.

 

 

 

 

 

[Woof999]

Went to a grammar school and learned that, if I didn't know the best phrasing within a few minutes, I should totally re-word the sentence to something that I knew made sense.

 

For example, I might write: That reminds me of yesterday, when my friend and I were playing.

[1FinickyOne]

I play 

you play

we play

they play

 

He plays?? 

 

you figure it out... 

[Pouatchee]

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Only practice practice practice in reading and speaking will do the trick over time ...

 

Sorry this does not answer the question

 

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Using AI to correct the grammar of our language could lead us into very murky waters.

 

By the way, you're an English teacher I gather. What has become of capitalization?

 

 

 

using AI when i cant find a satisfactory answer? why not? murky waters? please explain your reasoning on this one... 

because i am an english teacher chatting on a blog i have to follow all the norms of grammar and punctuation? really? nahhhh... i type with one hand and adding apostrophes and capitalising ... no

 

2 hours ago, retarius said:

What the hell does any student of English need to know this for? My experiences with the teaching of English in Thailand  is that it is full of arcane grammar and devoid of speaking.

 

just cos you dont want to teach something doesnt mean you shouldnt at least try to understand it. try teaching SAT if you dont understand the passive. when your paying students ask WHY what will you answer? you will likely look like a chump teacher.

 

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

Yes, I was always worried about this sort of thing as a two year old learning to talk.

 

then stick to teaching 2 year old kids, probably the right level for you

guess you cant answer so you come try to make an arse of yourself with a snide remark

 

1 hour ago, Chris Daley said:

Active voice:  I played with my friend yesterday.

Short passive:  Yesterday my friend was played with.

Long passive:  Yesterday my friend was played with by me.

 

thanks your the only one who actually tried to honestly answer the question. but the meaning seems weird. i came up with the same answers you did, but how is a friend played with. my friend is not a toy, not an object. the meaning gets distorted.

 

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

How does chat got know you’re gay? That’s a bit creepy.

 

if all else fails, hide your ignorance with a stupid comment that shows your standing in society. creepy is your comment

[bubblegum]

My wife asked me the difference between I'm sleeping/I'm asleep.

Still don't know that 1, asked former teachers none of them could answer.

[tgw]

1 minute ago, bubblegum said:

My wife asked me the difference between I'm sleeping/I'm asleep.

Still don't know that 1, asked former teachers none of them could answer.

 

the first one is a continuous action and the second one is a state.

[mfd101]

1 minute ago, bubblegum said:

My wife asked me the difference between I'm sleeping/I'm asleep.

Still don't know that 1, asked former teachers none of them could answer.

They both describe the same situation but the perspective is diffeent. The first considers sleep as an activity, the second as a state.

[mogandave]

Being called ignorant by an English teacher, how great is that?

[Pouatchee]

20 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Being called ignorant by an English teacher, how great is that?

 

oh, i bet you were called that by lesser beings

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Words can take on different meanings when used in a different context or combined with other words in a sentence.

 

It is a semantics issue, not grammar.

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

 

oh, i bet you were called that by lesser beings

It’s hard to imagine such a thing exists….

 

 

[Pouatchee]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

It’s hard to imagine such a thing exists….

 

 

 

useless comments so far not taking the subject anywhere.   --> get out TROLL if you cannot participate

[bubblegum]

To the asleep/sleeping answers: So when some of her friends ask me can I see your wife? What do I say (in this context)?

[Pouatchee]

10 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

To the asleep/sleeping answers: So when some of her friends ask me can I see your wife? What do I say (in this context)?

 

either

 

“Sleep” can be used as a noun and as a verb. “Asleep” is an adjective, so that means these words take different positions in sentences. For example: “He's sleeping.” In that sentence, “sleeping” is used in the progressive tense, “He is sleeping.” It's a verb.

Edited May 9 by Pouatchee

[bubblegum]

2 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

 

either

 

“Sleep” can be used as a noun and as a verb. “Asleep” is an adjective, so that means these words take different positions in sentences. For example: “He's sleeping.” In that sentence, “sleeping” is used in the progressive tense, “He is sleeping.” It's a verb.

I'm afraid that's not very clear to a Thai lady making fun of the English language. Lucky I'm not English because for me to its very difficult to see REAL difference.

[Thingamabob]

19 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

What does chatgpt give you for options with this sentence?

It's transitive, right?

It's both transitive, and passive..

[Freddy42OZ]

19 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

because i am an english teacher chatting on a blog i have to follow all the norms of grammar and punctuation? really? nahhhh... i type with one hand and adding apostrophes and capitalising ... no

 

I wouldn't want you teaching my kids.