Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[transam]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ballistic-missile-ukraine-iran-us-intelligence-3601a979e91d19c94e7d0fe27a398669

Stuff from N.Korea..........😂

[beautifulthailand99]

Well if Trump wins that's it.Game over. With the Economist giving him a 2/3 chance of that. But it's also the beggining of the end of the US as a Great Power - he's a symptom not the cause.

 

At a campaign rally in Detroit, Trump criticized Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, calling him “the greatest salesman of all time” for Kyiv’s push to secure U.S. support in its effort to defend Ukraine against Russian aggression more than three years after Moscow's all-out invasion.

“He just left four days ago with $60 billion, and he gets home, and he announces that he needs another $60 billion. It never ends,” Trump said.

“I will have that settled prior to taking the White House as president-elect,” said Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee in the U.S. election.

 

https://archive.ph/zSMUq

 

 

Edited June 16 by beautifulthailand99

[Danderman123]

16 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The reverse has happened on the Ukrainian front where Himars and Patriots were easily spotted by the endless drones and taken out so remaining ones were moved way back behind the lines making the front vulnerable to the relentless onlslaught of FAB bombs launched 10s of kms from behind the Russian lines. Same for the increasingly vulnerable power grid - Ukraine is pretty much out of AD. Zelenskiy is asking for stuff that doesn't exist or if it does the owner doesn't want to give it up. Who can forget after October 7th leader after leader went to visit Netanhayu bearing gifts and sympathy but Zeleskiy was given an abrupt no. They are fishing in the same pool and Israel has first dibs.

 

Besisdes which if Russia is such an existential threat to the rest of Europe then why would anyone give up valuable AD ? The paradox of  of Schrodinger's Russia:Russia is both "upper Volta with missiles" with a smaller economy than Italy and a weak nation that Obama called a "regional power" - but is also an existential threat to US democracy and powerful enough to influence the outcome of US elections and take over the whole of Europe just like Hitler.

 

https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-ukraine-has-25-of-needed-air-defenses/

 

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/10/16/7424350/

You are citing Russian sources for HIMARS and Patriot losses. AFAIK, only one HIMARS has been destroyed, and one Patriot has been lightly damaged.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You are citing Russian sources for HIMARS and Patriot losses. AFAIK, only one HIMARS has been destroyed, and one Patriot has been lightly damaged.

 

 

and what, may I ask, are your sources? US, UK, or OMG, Ukrainian?

[jvs]

A big hit !

Edited June 17 by jvs

[jvs]

 

[ChicagoExpat]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:19 AM, Gweiloman said:

I’ve been to Russia several times, know a few Russians. Not once did I feel my civil liberties nor those of my friends degraded. In fact, it was extremely liberal and open, we were partying in the streets of St. Pete at 3 am in the morning when it was during the midnight sun period. I felt a lot more unsafe in some other European capitals. Strange that.

  🤣 You'd have a little credibility if you just said, "Correct, there are no civil liberties in Russia, but I support them all the same for XYZ reasons."  Your answer was a hilariously bad attempt to pretend there are civil liberties in Russia.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and what, may I ask, are your sources? US, UK, or OMG, Ukrainian?

I do my own research.

 

BTW, there appear to be 400 Russian soldiers trapped in Vovchansk. We will see how this turns out, maybe they will scurry back to Russian lines tonight.

Edited June 17 by Danderman123

[Danderman123]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:19 AM, Gweiloman said:

 

 

I’ve been to Russia several times, know a few Russians. Not once did I feel my civil liberties nor those of my friends degraded. In fact, it was extremely liberal and open, we were partying in the streets of St. Pete at 3 am in the morning when it was during the midnight sun period. I felt a lot more unsafe in some other European capitals. Strange that.

https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1802058794333049253

 

 

Edited June 17 by Danderman123

[jvs]

5 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I do my own research.

 

BTW, there appear to be 400 Russian soldiers trapped in Vovchansk. We will see how this turns out, maybe they will scurry back to Russian lines tonight.

No the remaining 200 will surrender and chose to live i think.According to one report a lot of them are dead or wounded.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1802058794333049253

 

And of course no one in Russia itself disputes that freedom of speech, press, assembly, etc aren't severely curtailed.  What Mr. "I went to St. Pete to party on unspecified dates and it was swell" doesn't know is that I lived in Moscow 2019 until four months after Russia invaded.  I saw the paddy wagons lined up in public places, waiting to haul away anyone who protested the war on any grounds at all.  I saw, even in Russian news, the announcements of prosecutions for anyone who questioned the official narrative.  And of course they closed down -- raiding and aggressively prosecuting -- any dissenting media organizations, with the coup de grace being the murder of Navalny.  Mr. Gweiloman drops a lot of turds in this forum but pretending Russia is a place that offers civil liberties... is straight out of The Manchurian Candidate, Walter Duranty, or Animal Farm.

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

  🤣 You'd have a little credibility if you just said, "Correct, there are no civil liberties in Russia, but I support them all the same for XYZ reasons."  Your answer was a hilariously bad attempt to pretend there are civil liberties in Russia.

As a rough guess an average Russian's freedom is probably as the same as the average Thai's and the average Russian probably loves their country as much as the average Thai. Civil liberties for most not so much and that's one of ther reasons a lot of westerners find the place very accomodating, the cheapness is being paid for by someone who is either dead,in prison, broken, silent or poor.

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1802058794333049253

 

 

And....I could find many dozens of videos of the same thing happening in Ukraine, crowds of women protesting but they would all come from unapproved sources so I can't post unless the mods allow it.

[transam]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

And....I could find many dozens of videos of the same thing happening in Ukraine, crowds of women protesting but they would all come from unapproved sources so I can't post unless the mods allow it.

Yes, from your Red, dodgy sites that have been removed....🙄

You continue to waffle about nothing....

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

And of course no one in Russia itself disputes that freedom of speech, press, assembly, etc aren't severely curtailed.  What Mr. "I went to St. Pete to party on unspecified dates and it was swell" doesn't know is that I lived in Moscow 2019 until four months after Russia invaded.  I saw the paddy wagons lined up in public places, waiting to haul away anyone who protested the war on any grounds at all.  I saw, even in Russian news, the announcements of prosecutions for anyone who questioned the official narrative.  And of course they closed down -- raiding and aggressively prosecuting -- any dissenting media organizations, with the coup de grace being the murder of Navalny.  Mr. Gweiloman drops a lot of turds in this forum but pretending Russia is a place that offers civil liberties... is straight out of The Manchurian Candidate, Walter Duranty, or Animal Farm.

Watching too much RT can do that to you. I would have to go out of my way to watch it in the UK so I don't bother but is is a slick alternate reality still available free to air in many parts of the world. Probably Thailand too ?

[beautifulthailand99]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes, from your Red, dodgy sites that have been removed....🙄

You continue to waffle about nothing....

Here's one and like Thailand you can buy your way out of the army it's just a lot more expensive.

 

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Here's one and like Thailand you can buy your way out of the army it's just a lot more expensive.

 

 

Looks like you are really taken in by videos.......I was like that about 70 years back, but then it was The Beano..........😂

[beautifulthailand99]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

Looks like you are really taken in by videos.......I was like that about 70 years back, but then it was The Beano..........😂

I like Japanese ones better .....

[Danderman123]

Meanwhile, Ukrainian forces seem to be advancing on some fronts.

 

Has the Russian offensive exhausted itself?

[beautifulthailand99]

43 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Meanwhile, Ukrainian forces seem to be advancing on some fronts.

 

Has the Russian offensive exhausted itself?

"Russia is never as strong as she looks; Russia is never as weak as she looks." (Attributed to multiple individuals, including Winston Churchill.)

[Gweiloman]

4 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

And of course no one in Russia itself disputes that freedom of speech, press, assembly, etc aren't severely curtailed.  What Mr. "I went to St. Pete to party on unspecified dates and it was swell" doesn't know is that I lived in Moscow 2019 until four months after Russia invaded.  I saw the paddy wagons lined up in public places, waiting to haul away anyone who protested the war on any grounds at all.  I saw, even in Russian news, the announcements of prosecutions for anyone who questioned the official narrative.  And of course they closed down -- raiding and aggressively prosecuting -- any dissenting media organizations, with the coup de grace being the murder of Navalny.  Mr. Gweiloman drops a lot of turds in this forum but pretending Russia is a place that offers civil liberties... is straight out of The Manchurian Candidate, Walter Duranty, or Animal Farm.

Oh my! I hope you weren’t caught up in all those arrests and that you were not roughed up. That would be tragic instead.

 

I also saw a lot of protesters being arrested for protesting the war. Some were even assaulted by the police. Their civil liberties were definitely ignored and trampled on. Only, if didn’t happen in Russia and the protesters were protesting about another war. I’m sure you know which one.

 

 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

And....I could find many dozens of videos of the same thing happening in Ukraine, crowds of women protesting but they would all come from unapproved sources so I can't post unless the mods allow it.

That's the difference between approved, aka reliable, sources and unapproved, aka unreliable, sources.

[beautifulthailand99]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That's the difference between approved, aka reliable, sources and unapproved, aka unreliable, sources.

That's one take but the other is western media curates and mashalls raw information to shape and satisfy an agenda. The sin of omission and partiality rather than disinformation per se.

[Mavideol]

Ukraine proves it can target the Russian air force's weakest link

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-proves-target-russian-air-090001670.html

 

[Mavideol]

Fierce fighting in Vovchansk as Ukrainian troops try to isolate invading Russian units

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fierce-fighting-vovchansk-ukrainian-troops-181551647.html

 

[Mavideol]

Russian troops surrender to an elite brigade as the Kharkiv front holds, Ukraine says

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-troops-surrender-elite-brigade-134514673.html

 

[Mavideol]

Russian soldiers surrender after failed raid on chemical factory

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-soldiers-surrender-failed-raid-134451295.html

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

That's one take but the other is western media curates and mashalls raw information to shape and satisfy an agenda. The sin of omission and partiality rather than disinformation per se.

With many sources available, the other take is nonsense.

[Danderman123]

11 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Russian soldiers surrender after failed raid on chemical factory

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-soldiers-surrender-failed-raid-134451295.html

This appears to be a fraction of the Russian soldiers trapped in Vovchansk.

 

There are hundreds more trying to get back to Russian lines.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Oh my! I hope you weren’t caught up in all those arrests and that you were not roughed up. That would be tragic instead.

 

I also saw a lot of protesters being arrested for protesting the war. Some were even assaulted by the police. Their civil liberties were definitely ignored and trampled on. Only, if didn’t happen in Russia and the protesters were protesting about another war. I’m sure you know which one.

 

 

If you are trying to compare civil liberties in Russia with the US, you're out of touch with reality:

 

Over 300 detained in Russia as country mourns the death of Alexei Navalny, Putin’s fiercest foe