Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, VBer said:

My post was about Ukrainian troops wearing ss-marked helmets and cosplaying nazi Germans. In reply of it you posted two pictures with on alive and one dead civilian. How  it connected to nazi symbols?

Moreover, are you sure that no civilians been killed during the operation in Kursk oblast? How did you knew that?

Are you sure that this exact civilian been killed by Russian army, but not by the army who tried to push them out? How did you knew that?

 

it is not hard to find a picture to find a dead Russian civilian in Kursk oblast, also it in not hard to find a civilian staying happily near Russian troops. You just selected pictures that fit to your narrative as it makes wearing  ss symbols some kind of legit.

 

So you didn't see the difference. Only a Russian could not

[VBer]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So you didn't see the difference. Only a Russian could not

Yeah, I see the difference in these pictures. The pictures that been selected among others to support certain narrative.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, VBer said:

Yeah, I see the difference in these pictures. The pictures that been selected among others to support certain narrative.

Yes that deliberate murder of civilians in Bucha was a recorded war crime. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

 

Well , the Urainian supply line has the advantage that so far it has no bridges or rivers in its rear. The fact that Ukraine is blowing all the major river bridges  in the Russians rear  would suggest that  those rivers will be where the Ukrainians will stop and dig in , behind a natural defensive line.  Also , when you think about it , a 25 kilometer advance into Russia is not that far. I do that distance regularly to our nearest Tesco , although I do it on a good road without having a drone drop things on my car. But it does put the distance in perspective.  A 20 minute drive. 

Ukraine will probably try to hold this land as a bargaining chip in future negotiations since they don't have many other chips. Unlikely that the Russians will be easily able to encircle the Ukrainians on account of said rivers.

 

I am somewhat curios though about your posts. They give the distinct impression that you would like Russia to win this conflict and gain everything it has set out to take by force. I find this a curious position ?

The Russians will still be bringing up reinforcements and weaponry, but once they are in situ I'm pickin' they will cut the supply lines, and then it's all over.

 

Unlikely that the Russians will be easily able to encircle the Ukrainians on account of said rivers.

They don't need to encircle them, just cut the supply lines by drones and artillery. Soldiers need lots of ammunition, and ammunition needs trucks. Can't bring enough ammunition in on bicycles- this isn't Vietnam.

 

I've been against this war since before it started and IMO continuing it will only lead to more widows and fatherless children. Reality say that Ukraine can't win, so the longer it continues the more death.

IMO it's just a matter of time till Zelensky has to negotiate an end, and IMO he will only do that if defeated militarily, so I want Zelensky to be forced to do so, to end the war and the needless deaths.

 

 

gain everything it has set out to take by force.

In the real world there is only suffering, so IMO Russia will get everything it set out to gain anyway. The only question is how many widows and fatherless children there will be at the end.

[VBer]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes that deliberate murder of civilians in Bucha was a recorded war crime. 

There are recorded war crimes made by Russian army.

There are recorded war crimes made by Ukrainian army. Somehow you not seeing them. Either you choose only “correct” sources, either you just filtering that you should bring to here.

This is war, the situation where most cruel and nasty things being done. By both sides.

it should not start from beginning.

Edited August 18 by VBer

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, VBer said:

There are recorded war crimes made by Russian army.

There are recorded war crimes made by Ukrainian army. Somehow you not seeing them. Either you choose only “correct” sources, either you just filtering that you should bring to here.

This is war, the situation where most cruel and nasty things being done. By both sides.

it should not start from beginning.

Nah, Bucha was not war, it was a horrific massacre and torture of civilians.

 

War crimes investigation launched after Russians post video showing beheaded Ukrainian soldier

Ukraine’s Prosecutor General has initiated a criminal investigation after a video was posted on 16 August on which a masked man points to a severed head on a pole, claiming it to be the head of a Ukrainian defender.  The criminal investigation is under Article 438 § 2 of Ukraine’s Criminal Code (violation of the rules and practice of war, linked with murder) as, even if the victim had already been killed, any such mutilation or desecration of bodies is a war crime.

https://khpg.org/en/1608813918

[Bkk Brian]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Russians will still be bringing up reinforcements and weaponry, but once they are in situ I'm pickin' they will cut the supply lines, and then it's all over.

 

Unlikely that the Russians will be easily able to encircle the Ukrainians on account of said rivers.

They don't need to encircle them, just cut the supply lines by drones and artillery. Soldiers need lots of ammunition, and ammunition needs trucks. Can't bring enough ammunition in on bicycles- this isn't Vietnam.

 

I've been against this war since before it started and IMO continuing it will only lead to more widows and fatherless children. Reality say that Ukraine can't win, so the longer it continues the more death.

IMO it's just a matter of time till Zelensky has to negotiate an end, and IMO he will only do that if defeated militarily, so I want Zelensky to be forced to do so, to end the war and the needless deaths.

 

 

gain everything it has set out to take by force.

In the real world there is only suffering, so IMO Russia will get everything it set out to gain anyway. The only question is how many widows and fatherless children there will be at the end.

IMO it's just a matter of time till Zelensky has to negotiate an end, and IMO he will only do that if defeated militarily, so I want Zelensky to be forced to do so, to end the war and the needless deaths.

 

Disgusting. You fail to realize Ukrainians do not want their home taken, do not want to surrender to occupation and will carry on regardless.

[Denim]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've been against this war since before it started and IMO continuing it will only lead to more widows and fatherless children.

 

I think everyone can agree on that but a much fairer solution would be for Putin to stop what he started since even he will have to admit , his two week operation has failed.  This war is continuing now to save Putins face , that is all. But he cannot stop and admit he is wrong.

 

No point blaming Zelensky or the Ukrainians for defending themselves.  I cannot think of any country that would not defend itself if attacked.

[stevenl]

29 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

you are an individual as disgusting as your posts.

go live in Russia with your buddies.

Judging by his English he already is 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, VBer said:

There are recorded war crimes made by Russian army.

There are recorded war crimes made by Ukrainian army. Somehow you not seeing them. Either you choose only “correct” sources, either you just filtering that you should bring to here.

This is war, the situation where most cruel and nasty things being done. By both sides.

it should not start from beginning.

Very fine people on both sides!

 

[Mavideol]

they do have to be stupid to claim they are victims.... they are the invaders, kids killers and they want sympathy

 

Russia Slapped Down At UN Meeting As Ukrainian Allies Remind Moscow It Is Not A 'Victim'

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-slapped-down-un-meeting-113740421.html

 

[Mavideol]

How Ukraine turned the war on its head with surprise attack on southern Russia

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-turned-war-head-surprise-163908796.html

 

[Mavideol]

Ukraine Is Getting Ready to Unleash a Swarm of Robot Dog

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-getting-ready-unleash-swarm-124552244.html

 

[Mavideol]

Ukraine hopes its incursion into Russia changes outcome of war

https://au.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-hopes-incursion-russia-changes-113714351.html

 

[Seppius]

14 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Ukraine Is Getting Ready to Unleash a Swarm of Robot Dog

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-getting-ready-unleash-swarm-124552244.html

 

That's going to be interesting to see, the future of warfare

[RayC]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Just because someone believes it might not be as easy for Ukraine to defeat Russia as some seem to think, does not mean they are rooting for Russia or a Putin lover. 

 

Why is this always the attack? I want Ukraine to win, but Russia:

• Has 283 times the area of Ukraine
• Has 4 times the population of Ukraine
• Has 10 times the GDP of Ukraine
• Is Backed by China, North Korea and Iran
• Has over 5,000 nuclear weapons

The counties that are supporting Ukraine do not have the stomach to start sending their kids there to fight.

 

Again, I am rooting for Ukraine, but that does not change any of this. 

 

 

 

That may well be the case but it ignores NATO forces which tilts the balance significantly in Ukraine's favour.

 

Therefore the real question is, 'Should the West i.e. NATO stand by idly while Putin attempts to redraw international borders in Europe?"

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

That may well be the case but it ignores NATO forces which tilts the balance significantly in Ukraine's favour.

When I said: "The countries that are supporting Ukraine do not have the stomach to start sending their kids there to fight.", how is that ignoring it? 

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

Therefore the real question is, 'Should the West i.e. NATO stand by idly while Putin attempts to redraw international borders in Europe?"

No, the question should be, is NATO ready to put boots on the ground in Russia. 

 

 

[tgw]

38 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, the question should be, is NATO ready to put boots on the ground in Russia.

 

they won't need to.

 

and I guess nobody will argue with me when I say that this is the ultimate military power - when you don't even need to put boots on the ground.

 

And NATO is a defensive alliance.
NATO has no interest in conquering Russian territory.

Russian territory, that is, as recognized by the UN.

So NATO doesn't need to set foot on Russian territory to cripple their offensive capabilities. NATO's strength lies in air superiority and then air supremacy.

If NATO sets its mind to it, the entirety of Russia can become a no-fly zone, and Russia's air defences and missile launchers will eat HARMs and other NATO ordinance and for the most part be reduced to smouldering memories.

Russia can have any millions of footsoldiers it wants within its borders, without planes and missiles they won't matter at all and have no use except for terrorizing their own Russian population.

Edited August 18 by tgw

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

When I said: "The countries that are supporting Ukraine do not have the stomach to start sending their kids there to fight.", how is that ignoring it? 

 

It is ignoring it in the sense that you compared Russia only with Ukraine. You made no mention of the resources which NATO possesses and which might become available to Ukraine.

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

No, the question should be, is NATO ready to put boots on the ground in Russia. 

 

 

 

That is certainly one question - and arguably the most important - but it is by no means the only one.

 

Others - some of which are gradually being answered - include, 'Can Ukraine deploy NATO weapons inside Russia?'; 'Should/Can NATO increase the supply of armaments to Ukraine?'; 'Should it become more involved in the coordination of Ukraine's planning approach to the war?', etc.

[GroveHillWanderer]

39 minutes ago, RayC said:

Others - some of which are gradually being answered - include, 'Can Ukraine deploy NATO weapons inside Russia?'

We already know the answer to that - yes, they can.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

We already know the answer to that - yes, they can.

 

they already did

[RayC]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

We already know the answer to that - yes, they can.

 

Which is why I said that some of the questions are gradually being answered.

[kwonitoy]

 

Edited August 18 by kwonitoy

[kwonitoy]

 

Edited August 18 by kwonitoy

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Denim said:

 

I think everyone can agree on that but a much fairer solution would be for Putin to stop what he started since even he will have to admit , his two week operation has failed.  This war is continuing now to save Putins face , that is all. But he cannot stop and admit he is wrong.

 

No point blaming Zelensky or the Ukrainians for defending themselves.  I cannot think of any country that would not defend itself if attacked.

Life isn't fair.

 

I don't get where he has failed, unless one believes the propaganda that he wanted the entire country. I don't and never did.

The direction of travel in the east is in the wrong direction for Zelensky, Crimea has not fallen. That doesn't look like losing from my perspective.

 

Zelensky had a window to negotiate before it started, from a much stronger position than he has now.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Life isn't fair.

 

I don't get where he has failed, unless one believes the propaganda that he wanted the entire country. I don't and never did.

The direction of travel in the east is in the wrong direction for Zelensky, Crimea has not fallen. That doesn't look like losing from my perspective.

 

Zelensky had a window to negotiate before it started, from a much stronger position than he has now.

 

Before what started? Putin's annexation of Crimea? His backing of separatists in Donbass? The invasion in 2022?

 

Negotiate under what terms? Either you give us (Russia) what we want or we will carry out the actions detailed in the previous paragraph?

 

I call that appeasement and rewarding the aggressor.

[Denim]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't get where he has failed, 

 

Two years is not the same as his announced two weeks therefore his original plan failed.

 

Worth remembering also that his original objective was to drive an armoured column into Kiev and forcibly instal a puppet government. At that time he apparently thought he would be welcomed with open arms.

 

Therein lies one of his problems.  He has silenced all of his domestic opposition  either by imprisonment or mysterious deaths so that like all dictators he is now surrounded by a lot of toadies and yes men who agree with all his utterances and hide any truth from him that they think might threaten their own position and safety.

 

Putin will increasingly be looking for scapegoats as the war drags on and eventually his close circle will feel threatened enough to move first and remove him ,most likely by assassination.  He will ultimately reap what he has sown.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

 

Two years is not the same as his announced two weeks therefore his original plan failed.

 

Worth remembering also that his original objective was to drive an armoured column into Kiev and forcibly instal a puppet government. At that time he apparently thought he would be welcomed with open arms.

 

Therein lies one of his problems.  He has silenced all of his domestic opposition  either by imprisonment or mysterious deaths so that like all dictators he is now surrounded by a lot of toadies and yes men who agree with all his utterances and hide any truth from him that they think might threaten their own position and safety.

 

Putin will increasingly be looking for scapegoats as the war drags on and eventually his close circle will feel threatened enough to move first and remove him ,most likely by assassination.  He will ultimately reap what he has sown.

IMO what you have posted is western propaganda. Familiar to anyone knows about WW1 and the "it'll all be over by Christmas " nonsense.

 

IMO no one that actually knows anything about wars would seriously put a date or a time limit on any campaign, as plans rarely last beyond the first day. War is not an exact science by any means.

 

As for the IMO nonsense about installing a puppet government, that might have worked in Stalin or Mao's time, but not so much now. As for the vanishing armoured column, another poster hypothesised that it was a feint designed to divert attention from the actual objective in the East, and I agree with that poster ( I don't remember who it was now ).

 

I suspect that we will never be on the same page re this conflict so we can agree to disagree.

 

Putin will increasingly be looking for scapegoats as the war drags on and eventually his close circle will feel threatened enough to move first and remove him ,most likely by assassination.  He will ultimately reap what he has sown.

 

Le Carre could use that for one of his spy novels.

 

It's a fact that bad men rarely die deserved deaths, Idi Amin died 2003 ( in the Saudi hospital that I used to work at, but happily not when I was there ), after a long rest as a guest of the Saudis, Genghis Khan likely died of disease, not insurrection, Mao and Stalin died in bed. I suspect Putin will end the same way as Stalin.

[Denim]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO what you have posted is western propaganda. Familiar to anyone knows about WW1 and the "it'll all be over by Christmas " nonsense.

 

 

I missed that. Can you point out my Jingoism where I predicted a quick end to the war ?

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO no one that actually knows anything about wars would seriously put a date or a time limit on any campaign,

 

You mean like PUtin did with his 2 week campaign that was forbiden to call war. He is well far of his prediction isn't he 

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As for the IMO nonsense about installing a puppet government, that might have worked in Stalin or Mao's time, but not so much now.

 

His stated aim on his thrust at Kiev was to clear out the Nazis and instal a government that would resume looking eas not west.

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As for the vanishing armoured column, another poster hypothesised that it was a feint designed to divert attention from the actual objective in the East, and I agree with that poster ( I don't remember who it was now ).

 

This was watched by people around the world and even Russians watched it at home on their television. It did not ' vanish ' , much of it was destroyed the rest managed to extricate themselves.

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Le Carre could use that for one of his spy novels.

 

Why not. His novels were inspired by real life.

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's a fact that bad men rarely die deserved deaths,

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Mao and Stalin died in bed.

 

But no happy ending for Mussolini or Hitler eh . Did you ever hear about the Nuremburg war crimes trials or The International Military Tribunal for the Far East.  A whole lot of bad men died deserved deaths dangling at the end of ropes.

 

I'm afraid your arguments are like someone trying to play poker with a busted flush. They just cannot stand any kind of objective scrutiny whatsover.

[ChicagoExpat]

22 hours ago, VBer said:

My post was about Ukrainian troops wearing ss-marked helmets and cosplaying nazi Germans. In reply of it you posted two pictures with on alive and one dead civilian. How  it connected to nazi symbols?

Moreover, are you sure that no civilians been killed during the operation in Kursk oblast? How did you knew that?

Are you sure that this exact civilian been killed by Russian army, but not by the army who tried to push them out? How did you knew that?

 

it is not hard to find a picture to find a dead Russian civilian in Kursk oblast, also it in not hard to find a civilian staying happily near Russian troops. You just selected pictures that fit to your narrative as it makes wearing  ss symbols some kind of legit.

 

One of the most wonderful bits of Russian (and their Western cheerleaders) disingenuousness is the whole "Nazi" shtick.  While Ukraine did have a problem with guys who used their symbols etc, they did a far better job cleaning that up than Russia, which still employs the Nazi-loving/admiring Rusich and up until Putin murdered him, an organization led by a man covered in SS tattoos.

 

The hypocrisy is awe-inspiring.