Rishi Sunak vows to bring back National Service

[transam]

5 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

A really silly idea.

 

At present we have a good, if under resourced Army.

 

This will saddle the army with legions of unwilling recruits, which it neither wants, needs, can equip or train properly. 12 months is not enough time to make half useful soldiers, all It can do is prepare them for future reserve service, which of course they would not undertake. Our existing regular professional soldiers will have to spend their time training "National Service Conscripts" rather than practicing their professional skills. There is not the accommodation for them, the training facilities or the equipment; you won't get away with putting them in 20 man rooms in huts, not in 2025!

 

I am sure exactly the same arguements apply to the Police and NHS.

I thought conscripts were kept away from the career soldiers.

It may help with the drug problem too, teach them a bit of respect that they may not be taught at home.

Fewer yobs on the street sounds good to me too.

As for the infrastructure, loads of ex military bases not in use, oh, except for the illegals..😉

[transam]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Do you not wish for your children's and grandchildren talents and abilities to be recognised without prejudice? Why do you think that they should have to be treated as lesser because you (presumably) aren't aristocracy?

What on earth are you talking about, you really are an embarrassing lefty tool...🙄

[Gweiloman]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Do you not wish for your children's and grandchildren talents and abilities to be recognised without prejudice? Why do you think that they should have to be treated as lesser because you (presumably) aren't aristocracy?

He’s just a bitter old man, living out his days in the 3rd world as he can’t afford to live in his home country.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

He’s just a bitter old man, living out his days in the 3rd world as he can’t afford to live in his home country.

But I am not a communist like you..................

PS. So where are you.........?  😂

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Seppius said:

Rishi must desperately want to lose this election

Or, he knows he is going to lose, but wants to float some policy proposals while people are still paying attention to him.

[herfiehandbag]

20 minutes ago, transam said:

I thought conscripts were kept away from the career soldiers.

It may help with the drug problem too, teach them a bit of respect that they may not be taught at home.

Fewer yobs on the street sounds good to me too.

As for the infrastructure, loads of ex military bases not in use, oh, except for the illegals..😉

If you have the number of Conscripts then you will need all your career soldiers to train 'em. To train a 100 conscripts you would need at least 5 Officers, 1 Warrant Officer, 1 Colour Sergeant, 3 Sergeants and 9 Corporals and a dozen Lance Corporals. Say 30+ training staff. If you are looking at processing say 300,000 conscripts a year, each conscript doing 4 months basic training you are probably looking at 35000 career soldiers as trainers. From a Regular Army of around 80,000 or so? 

 

I doubt that we have 300,000 rifles going spare. Back in the 1950s all a conscript needed was a set of battledress and a rifle left over from the Second World War. The game has changed now.

 

Whilst it is true that many bases have closed over the last 30 years, very few are lying empty, most have been sold in a fairly energetic and ruthless drive to raise cash - little if any of which found it's way to the new, smaller but better resourced Army we were regularly promised every couple of years. We used to call the regular defence reviews ( under whatever shade of government) OP Bohica ( bend over, here it comes again)!

 

Fewer yobs on the streets? No, fitter yobs, probably better organised, and more adept at violence!

Edited May 26 by herfiehandbag

[BangkokReady]

6 hours ago, CharlieH said:

If the Conservatives win the upcoming General Election, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak plans to introduce compulsory National Service for all 18-year-olds. He announced this surprising proposal in an article for The Mail on Sunday.

Under this plan, school-leavers would have to spend a year either in a full-time role with the Armed Forces or volunteering with organisations like the police or the NHS.

 

School leavers are 16 in the UK.  🤔

[youreavinalaff]

35 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

A really silly idea.

 

At present we have a good, if under resourced Army.

 

This will saddle the army with legions of unwilling recruits, which it neither wants, needs, can equip or train properly. 12 months is not enough time to make half useful soldiers, all It can do is prepare them for future reserve service, which of course they would not undertake. Our existing regular professional soldiers will have to spend their time training "National Service Conscripts" rather than practicing their professional skills. There is not the accommodation for them, the training facilities or the equipment; you won't get away with putting them in 20 man rooms in huts, not in 2025!

 

I am sure exactly the same arguements apply to the Police and NHS.

Interesting. You know so much about how it's all going to work.

 

I'd be in awe if you weren't wide of the mark.

[BangkokReady]

7 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

most have been sold in a fairly energetic and ruthless drive to raise cash - little if any of which found it's way to the new, smaller but better resourced Army we were regularly promised every couple of years

 

Presumably the land was sold by Tory politicians to their friends at way below the going rate.  (With said politicians taking up positions as "consultants" within their friend's companies, "working" one day a week for a couple of hundred grand a year.)

[herfiehandbag]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Interesting. You know so much about how it's all going to work.

 

I'd be in awe if you weren't wide of the mark.

I would hazard a guess that I have a fairly good idea of how it would work.

 

I did 32 years in the Army. Several of those years were spent in the training system, at several stages (ranks) in my career.

 

I'd be really interested in your ideas as to how it would work, perhaps even in awe!

Edited May 26 by herfiehandbag

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I would hazard a guess that I have a fairly good idea of how it would work.

 

I did 32 years in the Army. Several of those years were spent in the training system, at several stages (ranks) in my career.

 

I'd be really interested in your ideas as to how it would work, perhaps even in awe!

I don't recall saying I had ideas. Then again, it's not up to me.

 

What I do know is your comments are wide of the mark. Unless you know all nearly 18 year olds that it will affect, how many will choose the 12 month option and how many will then choose to enlist. 

 

How many years did you get involved with training those on national service?

[Will B Good]

5 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

What a wingnut.

The Tories have lost.

Silly, useless incompetent, sods.

......and that"s just the clever ones.

[Will B Good]

To be fair he could offer free 5* hotel accommodation, zero tax on alcohol and bring back hanging.......he knows he is finished.....he might not even be an MP in a few weeks.

[RuamRudy]

58 minutes ago, transam said:

What on earth are you talking about, you really are an embarrassing lefty tool...🙄

 

You keep tugging that forelock, Tranny - your betters still laugh at you and look down on you like they always have, but they appreciate you more because without pliant and weak proles such as yourself, their position might be in danger.

[herfiehandbag]

38 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I don't recall saying I had ideas. Then again, it's not up to me.

 

What I do know is your comments are wide of the mark. Unless you know all nearly 18 year olds that it will affect, how many will choose the 12 month option and how many will then choose to enlist. 

 

How many years did you get involved with training those on national service?

Very obviously I had no involvement with training National Servicemen, to have done so I would now be in my mid to late 80s, and that is 20 odd years short of the mark!

 

Now I explained some of the nuts and bolts of training recruits, volunteer or conscripts on the scale envisaged. You say I am "wide of the mark", yet cannot suggest how - you just know I am. Presumably you must have some ideas, how else could you, realistically, claim I am wrong?

 

I know what is involved in training recruit soldiers, the manpower, equipment and other resources are considerable. You would need, apart from manpower, accommodation, range space and time, weapons, training areas and transport - The UK does not have them, and it will cost an awful lot of money to find them. It's not just the one man shouty band imagined by Hollywood!

 

And then, when they are trained, what will they do with them, where will you barrack them, how will you equip them, how will you move them, how will you even feed them? You are talking about needing to triple the infrastructure, before you even consider simply what to do with them?

 

So come on, explain where, how, I am wide of the mark?

Edited May 26 by herfiehandbag

[englishoak]

If AI takes over most jobs what will the young and those who have never worked do ? the risk ofc will be disruption out of boredom and no future which will inevitably lead to unrest.. what to do ? get them compliant and used to following orders young. UK gov desperately needs to reduce benefit support costs and the military bolstered... it will probably be prioritised for those not continuing to higher education, your expected to serve the system that feeds you. At the moment thats predominantly young men both indigenous and  immigrant alike, perfect cannon fodder or free state labour so to speak.

 

Also a good way to get new immigrants to be useful.. Want your benefits ? enroll in helping serve your new country, getting  Citizenship requires it etc etc..not hard to change the requirements. Someones got to go die in a war or look after the huge rapidly  aging demographic  & you can bet its not gonna be the elites kids.

 

Afterall, if the gov considers much of the population useless eaters now,  i cant imagine they want a majority jobless population to take care of. ie send them to the front.. these lunatics in power want their war make no mistake. 

Edited May 26 by englishoak

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Interesting. You know so much about how it's all going to work.

 

I'd be in awe if you weren't wide of the mark.

I’d be amazed if anything this idiot Sunak proposes works.

 

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, englishoak said:

If AI takes over most jobs what will the young and those who have never worked do ? the risk ofc will be disruption out of boredom and no future which will inevitably lead to unrest.. what to do ? get them compliant and used to following orders youngUK gov desperately needs to reduce benefit support costs and the military bolstered... it will probably be prioritised for those not continuing to higher education, your expected to serve. At the moment thats predominantly young men both indigenous and  immigrant alike, perfect cannon fodder so to speak.

 

Also a good way to get new immigrants to be useful.. Want your benefits ? enroll in helping defend your new country, Citizenship requires ot etc etc..  someones got to go die in a war & you can bet its not gonna be the elites kids 

 

Afterall, if the gov considers much of the population useless eaters now,  i cant imagine they want a majority jobless population to take care of. ie send them to the front.. these lunatics in power want their war make no mistake. 

You are dancing around a prediction by Karl Marx that automation would eventually lead to huge numbers of unemployed, who would eventually revolt.

 

In real life, automation has created new job niches, so unemployment is not out of control. Plus, governments hand money to unemployed people.

[Chomper Higgot]

38 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

To be fair he could offer free 5* hotel accommodation, zero tax on alcohol and bring back hanging.......he knows he is finished.....he might not even be an MP in a few weeks.

I expect ‘hanging and flogging’ are on the list of proposals he has in mind.

 

On the upside, they would be cheap, unlike his bird brained ‘National Service’ nonsense.

 

Sunak jumps the shark, but where’s the money coming from to pay for his nonsense?

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’d be amazed if anything this idiot Sunak proposes works.

 

The Conservatives ran out of useful ideas a long time ago. They were in power too long.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

You are dancing around a prediction by Karl Marx that automation would eventually lead to huge numbers of unemployed, who would eventually revolt.

 

In real life, automation has created new job niches, so unemployment is not out of control. Plus, governments hand money to unemployed people.

Automation is stripping out jobs and has been doing for a long while.

 

[Danderman123]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Automation is stripping out jobs and has been doing for a long while.

 

Yes, but new jobs are often created, at least for younger workers.

 

A good example is the Internet, which killed a lot of jobs, but created a lot, as well.

 

[Pouatchee]

7 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Rishi Sunak plans to introduce compulsory National Service for all 18-year-olds

 

so, from this article i get that even women will have to do it. 

did anyone ask, what about 18 year old women with kids?

seems to me there will be more than one loophole if this falls through

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Automation is stripping out jobs and has been doing for a long while.

 

 

I am sure that most of us can remember the days of travel agents and record shops peppering the high street, just a couple of examples of businesses which largely disappeared due to technology. Yet we don't have whole generations of potential travel agents aimlessly looking for a fulfilling future. Things simply change and adapt. They always have and they always will.

[youreavinalaff]

44 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

You say I am "wide of the mark", yet cannot suggest how - you just know I am.

Read my previous post. 

[youreavinalaff]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’d be amazed if anything this idiot Sunak proposes works.

 

And? 

 

What's that got to do with my post?

[herfiehandbag]

9 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Read my previous post. 

Which doesn't explain anything!

Edited May 26 by herfiehandbag

[youreavinalaff]

14 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Which doesn't explain anything!

If you can't see it, I hope those you trained are no longer in service. 

 

If they are, the security of UK is in deep sh$#.

 

Try again. Here's my reasoning:

 

"What I do know is your comments are wide of the mark. Unless you know all nearly 18 year olds that it will affect, how many will choose the 12 month option and how many will then choose to enlist."

 

Tell me you do know and I'll withrmdraw my comment of you being wide of the mark.

 

Edited May 26 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

24 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

And? 

 

What's that got to do with my post?

It just an observation.

 

You mention stuff working.

 

Nothing Sunak promises ever seems to work.

 

I believe voters have noticed.

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

37 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Yes, but new jobs are often created, at least for younger workers.

 

A good example is the Internet, which killed a lot of jobs, but created a lot, as well.

 

The internet is an example of a platform on which automation has been implemented and thereby stopped out jobs.

 

Online banking, flight bookings, hotel reservations being common examples.