New Tax Rules for Expats in Thailand Spark Concern

[Mike Lister]

18 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

From what I've read, US social security is not taxable. So I imagine I will file a tax return and provide Social Security documentation that my income matches the amount transferred here every month. That should require minimal math skills on the part of their tax dept. 

That is correct:

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/u-s-thai-tax-treaty-pensions-and-social-security-payments-article-20/

[worrab]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You are absolutely correct.

 

If you transmitted big money into Thailand prior to January 1, 2024, you don't have to worry about filling out a Thai tax return.

 

I personally wouldn't trust a Thai bank with that much money.

I have checked the situation with large amounts in a Thai bank and it is just as safe there as anywhere else. There is more than enough protection in place. The only time it could go wrong is if the bank went bankrupt which is highly unlikely with the big banks.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, bronzedude said:

A few years ago, I was informed that the US and Thailand have a tax treaty. Meaning that if a US person files a US tax return, they don't owe any income tax in Thailand. I remember when the banks were offering fairly high interest rates on short term savings instruments that a tax was levied against the earned interest. Since Thailand and the US had the tax treaty, if the income from these instruments was claimed on the US tax return, then the person could make a claim (with a Thai tax number) and be reimbursed the tax that was levied. It's been several years since I went through this process of applying for a reimbursement since the interest rate banks were offering on short term instruments was less than I could get on my savings accounts in the US. As a retiree, I think that pensions and social security are not consider as earned income. So it will be interesting to see how the tax treaty affects this new tax development.

Suggest one read their country's DTA with Thailand, as for the US DTA, a US govt pension and Social Security is taxed ONLY by the US but other pensions could be assessible income depending on how the Thai government decides to do whatever...

[paahlman]

Yes.. And if one can navigate the treaties you save money. But it has to be deducted on the country you are borned in. IF a tax treaty exists.

[Gandtee]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

100s of 1000s of Farangs have non-O retirement visas, and many live in the village, not much contact with news sources.

 

Those who have renewals in December will be the last to be impacted by the new tax laws, next year.

 

Immigration doesn't have much to do with the Revenue Department, but they do have the retiree's bank book at visa renewal time.

But only the account with the Bt800,000 in it.

[uksmdh]

1 hour ago, Robbie2618 said:

I would gather that most expats that have incomes outside of Thailand are not working for a company that's going to report the income to the Thai taxing authority and if your earning wages outside of Thailand then you would very likely have a non-Thai bank account. The only income the Thai authorities would know about is what's in your local bank account that you show on visa renewal. 

Two points.  First is understanding the Common Reporting Standard which Thailand signed up to last year which is the requirement for all financial institutions in the participating 176 countries to declare an individuals details when requested by the Tax Residents country.  

 

The introduction of the CRS in Thailand affects both individuals and businesses with international financial dealings. Under the CRS, key financial information on account holders, such as their identity, account balance, and interest income, will be automatically exchanged between the Thai Revenue Department (TRD) and tax authorities in other participating countries.

 

Second is studying the detail of any Double Tax Agreement from your home country has with Thailand and realising that outstanding tax liability you may have in the country you are tax resident.

[Presnock]

52 minutes ago, sungod said:

Loads of hype at the moment, just have to sit back and see what works and what doesn't. I've been here a considerable time and really not worried about this, they cant even enforce people to wear crash helmets or stop at red lights. I haven't seen any reports on major recruiting for the revenue department to deal with all the extra work. Government departments are still using Hotmail and gmail as their addresses, there's efficiency.......

 

 

As a matter of fact based on forum members' reports (yeah how reliable is that?) even the local RD folks have not been briefed on ANYTHING at all about this and the possible ramifications of such activity so since the 180 day residency is quickly approaching, it would seem rather necessary for something official should be aired for those possibly affected as many not to be affected may leave early before any possible effect other than to have Thailand lose monies instead of gaining any.  Just saying...

[HappyExpat57]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

Nonsense

 

Many people don't spend 180 days a year in the country and what if your extension is in December just before the end of the tax year - how they gonna get around that?

 

NOT nonsense! Immigration doesn't care how many days you spend in Thailand - if you are filing for an annual extension, they will probably be instructed to require the retiree to file a tax return for approval. Add to that how every immigration office follows their own interpretation of the rules and you have a recipe for the perfect cluster kcuf.

[sungod]

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

As a matter of fact based on forum members' reports (yeah how reliable is that?) even the local RD folks have not been briefed on ANYTHING at all about this and the possible ramifications of such activity so since the 180 day residency is quickly approaching, it would seem rather necessary for something official should be aired for those possibly affected as many not to be affected may leave early before any possible effect other than to have Thailand lose monies instead of gaining any.  Just saying...

Couldn't agree more, they are still trying to work out how to make people pay speeding tickets!

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

But only the account with the Bt800,000 in it.

It depends on the bank letter and how much is declared in it. Many years ago my bank letter declared all my bank assets in Thailand which spanned six or eight accounts and over 5 mill. Come visa extension time, I had to reconcile all the bank books back to the letter to prove both, it was accounting 101 for the Immi lady. I learned my lesson. Subsequently I keep my 400k in an account by itself and the bank letter refers solely to that account and ignores everything else.

[Presnock]

Just now, sungod said:

Couldn't agree more, they are still trying to work out how to make people pay speeding tickets!

Yeah I have had a Thai drivers' license since mid 1970's and have heard the same stories about the Thai govt attempting to coordinate with all police stations throughtout the country to enforce traffic laws and making violators of same pay their fines!  

[Gandtee]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It depends on the bank letter and how much is declared in it. Many years ago my bank letter declared all my bank assets in Thailand which spanned six or eight accounts and over 5 mill. Come visa extension time, I had to reconcile all the bank books back to the letter to prove both, it was accounting 101 for the Immi lady. I learned my lesson. Subsequently I keep my 400k in an account by itself and the bank letter refers solely to that account and ignores everything else.

Right👍

[flexomike]

20 minutes ago, Robbkk said:

 

Open question? I need to show tax returns every year to renew my work visa.

 

The enforcement you're looking for will be a visa denied. 

Of course you do because you are working in Thailand.

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

A lot of Farangs in the village have no clue about this.

No clue about what❗❓Ignorance is bliss. 🤣

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yeah I have had a Thai drivers' license since mid 1970's and have heard the same stories about the Thai govt attempting to coordinate with all police stations throughtout the country to enforce traffic laws and making violators of same pay their fines!  

I've seen this said a couple of times and am surprised. My wife got two tickets through the mail in the past year, sent to out home address, caught by speed camera. I picked one up three years ago that I didn't pay and was unable to renew my vehicle tax until I did.

[Andre0720]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Credit cards go through a Thai clearinghouse, and transactions can be reported to the Revenue Department.

"can be reported".

These people explain a simple immigration law.

You ask a question, well they do not know...

Forms are not even dated, rules are applied as clerks would apply rules, with no decision making authority.

Everything is about papers.

No papers, well, what can we do.....

[10baht]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

ATM withdrawals, and the like.

How can they monitor this when it comes from a bank outside Thailand?

[Presnock]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

I've seen this said a couple of times and am surprised. My wife got two tickets through the mail in the past year, sent to out home address, caught by speed camera. I picked one up three years ago that I didn't pay and was unable to renew my vehicle tax until I did.

Mike, think that may actually happen depending on where one resides/or where on gets a ticket.  I have talked to several folks in the not-too-distant past that indicate that in some districts, police are not so diligent nor have the means nor initiative (one or all three at the same time)

[Mike Lister]

Just now, 10baht said:

How can they monitor this when it comes from a bank outside Thailand?

The Mastercard and Visa networks report traffic, volumes and transactions to BOT, it's an important part of BOT's currency management. I have no doubt that data is shared.

[wensiensheng]

So if I live off my capital and don’t bring any income in to Thailand, or earn any income here, do I still need to fill in a tax return? 
 

no taxable income to declare will be a nil return if so

[kuzmabruk]

3 hours ago, ukrules said:

Nonsense

 

Many people don't spend 180 days a year in the country and what if your extension is in December just before the end of the tax year - how they gonna get around that?

 

I don’t think immigration will be the police force for this , but if they were it’s easy. Remember they do mot need to catch everyone in the first year.  
 

at your annual visa renewal they just need ask for a copy of your Thai tax return.  They know by their computer systems whether you are 180+ days in country.  
 

should they find you didn’t file as required, they could become nasty.  Legally you are required to file Thai tax returns for every year in which you are 180+ days in country. 
 

Also lying on your tax return is not a good idea.  Prisons in Thailand are reputed to be bad.  

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, wensiensheng said:

So if I live off my capital and don’t bring any income in to Thailand, or earn any income here, do I still need to fill in a tax return? 
 

no taxable income to declare will be a nil return if so

No need to file a return, the minimum assessable income threshold is either 60k or 120k for single people, based on the type of income and 220k for married people.

[koolkarl]

Clucking here like old hens.  With CRS, eventually you will have to report your world income to Thailand, if you are a tax resident, in my opinion.  And you get nothing for the money, no health care, no immigrant status, etc.  Thailand is done for me and I have zero intention to split my time between different countries,

a pain in the butt. 

[Mike Lister]

Just now, kuzmabruk said:

I don’t think immigration will be the police force for this , but if they were it’s easy. Remember they do mot need to catch everyone in the first year.  
 

at your annual visa renewal they just need ask for a copy of your Thai tax return.  They know by their computer systems whether you are 180+ days in country.  
 

should they find you didn’t file as required, they could become nasty.  Legally you are required to file Thai tax returns for every year in which you are 180+ days in country. 
 

Also lying on your tax return is not a good idea.  Prisons in Thailand are reputed to be bad.  

A person can be tax resident here and spend more than 180 days in Thailand in a calendar year but not have assessable income and have no need to file.

[Chris BKK]

Have people considered the impact on foreign funds being used to support 'girl friends', wives and perhaps children in Thailand from a farang. If say a farang sends B30k per month to Thailand from abroad then the Thai referred to above could be up for tax on the foreign income. By rough reckoning that could see the Thai recipient up for tax, depending on age etc, for up to B7.5k per year. So not only the expat up for tax but the Thai foreign income recipient. Some of those Thais would have never been registered for tax (no TIN) or ever paid tax. How will the Revenue Dept treat this income?

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Immigration doesn't have much to do with the Revenue Department, but they do have the retiree's bank book at visa renewal time.

 

Not much use for all those retirees that keep the 800k in a separate account, and if immigration ask " that is my only account officer, my wife supports me/i live off the cash savings I brought with me 10 years ago".

 

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Immigration doesn't have much to do with the Revenue Department, but they do have the retiree's bank book at visa renewal time.

 

Not much use for all those retirees that keep the 800k in a separate account, and if immigration ask " that is my only account officer, my wife supports me/i live off the cash savings I brought with me 10 years ago".

 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Chris BKK said:

Have people considered the impact on foreign funds being used to support 'girl friends', wives and perhaps children in Thailand from a farang. If say a farang sends B30k per month to Thailand from abroad then the Thai referred to above could be up for tax on the foreign income. By rough reckoning that could see the Thai recipient up for tax, depending on age etc, for up to B7.5k per year. So not only the expat up for tax but the Thai foreign income recipient. Some of those Thais would have never been registered for tax (no TIN) or ever paid tax. How will the Revenue Dept treat this income?

The recipient in Thailand is on the hook for the income she receives, if she doesn't file a return and declare it, she's evading taxes, if found out. The sender is off the hook, because they presumably are not Thai tax resident.

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

IMO, eventually it may be, but definitely not in the short and improbable in the medium term. 

 

how can you be so sure about that?

 

because for the moment nothing is sure about how, when or what will happen with the new tax law ...

[wensiensheng]

So if I live off my capital and don’t bring any income in to Thailand, or earn any income here, do I still need to fill in a tax return? 
 

no taxable income to declare will be a nil return if so