New Tax Rules for Expats in Thailand Spark Concern

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

Not breaking anything never mind news there is nothing new here. There is another thread about this which has been going on since it was announced last October. The Thai authorities haven't released (worked out) the details of how this will be implemented yet. Don't hold your breath for news updates.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In "taxy" terms, this topic is like the gift that keeps giving and giving and giving....

 

[Mike Lister]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

So you are referring to this post of yours in that thread?

 

AND

 

 

And I'm assuming the language and document cites you're referring to there is to one of the "guide" documents you've been keeping on the Thai taxation topic?

 

The debate goes beyond that but yes, it does refer to the so called simple tax guide wording which at this stage i very uncertain., 

[crazykopite]

I should be okay as the UK has  a tax agreement with Thailand  otherwise I may have to relocate to s’more accommodating country 

[flexomike]

deleted post

 

[10baht]

6 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

I have started segregating income from capital. In January I opened a separate “income” account and all income generated on my capital goes directly into that account. All remittances into Thailand come from my “capital” account. Statements to prove it of course.

 

waiting to see if it is valid

Actually since the only money I bring over is my Social security which is not taxable by treaty, and the only money I make here is from my bank interest - of which 15% is held out for taxes - once I get a tax ID and apply all my qualified exemptions I will probably be getting money back. LOL on them.

[kimothai]

10 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I'll take that bet and I'll raise you an eclair.

I'll go with the original poster and raise you 2 Oreos. 

[flexomike]

just found this on the internet, not sure if previously posted

U.S. – THAILAND TAX TREATY 1998

Convention between the government of the United States of America and the government of the kingdom of Thailand for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income.

 

• Details

Article 20: Pensions and Social Security Payments

 

Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

Annuities derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term “annuities” as used in this paragraph means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than services rendered).

Alimony paid to a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term "alimony" as used in this paragraph means periodic payments made pursuant to a written separation agreement or a decree of divorce, separate maintenance, or compulsory support, which payments are taxable to the recipient under the laws of the State of which he is a resident.

Periodic payments, not dealt with in paragraph 4, for the support of a child made pursuant to a written separation agreement or a decree of divorce, separate maintenance, or compulsory support, paid by a resident of a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State, shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

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found this on the net, not sure if previously posted

[fulhamster]

11 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

A lot of Farangs in the village have no clue about this.

Nor do Immigration

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, mania said:

Actually way back when this taxing was first mentioned I pretty much thought it was all about Thai's & closing a loophole many of them use to work abroad & hold their savings there a year then sending it all home tax free. When you consider all the farm workers abroad & other lines of work it made sense.

Because overseas farm workers can keep money in the bank for a year before sending it home. Because they are so wealthy.

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, fulhamster said:

Nor do Immigration

You are exactly correct.

 

You could also add the Revenue Department.

 

Today, that is true.

 

 

[GregKeo]

9 hours ago, Robbie2618 said:

I would gather that most expats that have incomes outside of Thailand are not working for a company that's going to report the income to the Thai taxing authority and if your earning wages outside of Thailand then you would very likely have a non-Thai bank account. The only income the Thai authorities would know about is what's in your local bank account that you show on visa renewal. 

 

[Galong]

9 hours ago, new2here said:

 Here is my GUESS..

 

For many with Work Permits, one of the various requirements for renewal is that your show your PD 90/91 to Labour before they’ll authorize a renewal (assuming you worked in Thailand in the previous calendar year)

 

So… what I could see is that Immigration adds the mandate that you show a PD 90/91 to them as a part of the overall renewal of stay process… by doing so, they would then be able to see if a foreigner has fulfilled their tax reporting/payment obligations.

I just spoke to my accountant based on your post (BTW, thanks for this) and she said that because I'm over 60 years old, my meager Thai salary isn't taxable. I don't know if it's the meager salary part or the age part, but she says I'm exempt.

I'm 68 and taking the minimum allowed to help with the marketing for the company I started and ran for the last 25 years. 

I pay Social Security and company taxes, but apparently, the personal tax side is not an age thanks to my age.  Finally, being old has a benefit. 👴

[atpeace]

4 hours ago, worrab said:

  5 hours ago, atpeace said:

Wake up Guys ! sooner or later Thai Immigration will ask retirees for a copy of their Thai Tax return and/or their Bank Books  in order to grant a long stay visa. .

Again, as I have said earlier in this looooooooong post, what about those that do not need to register for a TIN or make tax returns for whatever reason? It is not quite as clear cut as you describe about waking up to. Any thoughts like that need a lot of thinking about before any implementation can even be considered.

Delete this post immediately.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that somehow you copied someone else's post and pasted it under my name by mistake.  I never stated what the above and believe the opposite.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Galong said:

I just spoke to my accountant based on your post (BTW, thanks for this) and she said that because I'm over 60 years old, my meager Thai salary isn't taxable. I don't know if it's the meager salary part or the age part, but she says I'm exempt.

I'm 68 and taking the minimum allowed to help with the marketing for the company I started and ran for the last 25 years. 

I pay Social Security and company taxes, but apparently, the personal tax side is not an age thanks to my age.  Finally, being old has a benefit. 👴

There is a special tax allowance for people over age 65 which often puts them outside of Thai tax.

[UKresonant]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

One liberal estimate puts the total value of all westerns in Thailand at around 3% of GDP per year. Recent surveys have shown that less than 10% of them plan to leave as a result of the tax change, some of that will be talk. Impact?  Minimal, is my guess.

I get the impression there is a large section in the wait and see camp , and still some oblivious to the Tax changes. The impact of attitude to Thailand, the Tax changes bring, may not show until 2025, or yes they may not show any great an affect at all.

 

April May 2025, may make things clearer, after the Tax Filing period, and before they become tax resident 2025.

 

Many have burnt bridges for other options or are to late in life to contemplate substantial change after being in Thailand so long...

[GregKeo]

My understanding is that Any foreign income deposited into your Thai bank account will be reported to the Thai tax authorities and will be taxed accordingly, unless you can show evidence that the money is exempt from Thai tax. For example a pension from your home country may be exempted via a double taxation agreement between the two countries, however you will need to provide the evidence to show that. 

 

Better to educate yourself than deal with the issues of non-compliance if you must pay. 

[Geir Rasch]

4 hours ago, ryandb said:

 

I state I don't believe in social security safety nets such as welfare

I understand that. So political we are miles away for each other. I hope people with that mindset never will be influential in any country!

[atpeace]

4 hours ago, ryandb said:

The Gas tax didn't come in until the 1930s, they were funded through Public land sales. Yes, there were some import tariffs, but again you had a choice like your shoes, if you wanted the imports pay the tax. I'm a voluntarist, I'm fine with paying for things I agree with, but I do not believe in funding my oppressors.

 

For a modern example over 60% of Sweden's roads are privately funded.

 

What alternative exactly, just because the people have been convinced taxation is just and indoctrinated into the greater good argument from school age doesn't mean it would not work, unfortunately, we've been highjacked by central banksters so there will never be a End the fed candidate allowed. 

 

 

 

OK, clearly a nut job.  Sweden is one of the highest taxed countries in the world.  I didn't say everything should be paid for by taxes.  Strange logic or lack of perspective you possess.  I don't like taxes but am logical enough to understand their need.  

[Galong]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

There is a special tax allowance for people over age 65 which often puts them outside of Thai tax.

My accountant said 60. I hope she's right as my wife is 60 and it'd be nice if she was exempt too. 🤞🤞

65 does sound more realistic though to be honest. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, GregKeo said:

My understanding is that Any foreign income deposited into your Thai bank account will be reported to the Thai tax authorities and will be taxed accordingly, unless you can show evidence that the money is exempt from Thai tax. For example a pension from your home country may be exempted via a double taxation agreement between the two countries, however you will need to provide the evidence to show that. 

 

Better to educate yourself than deal with the issues of non-compliance if you must pay. 

Not correct.

 

Money deposited into  a bank account doesn't have to be assessable income, it can be savings of not assessable income.

 

Thai banks are not going to report every remittance to every person, to the Revenue, it would be a mammoth undertaking that was entirely futile.

 

People have to file tax returns on a self assessment basis and declare the funds as assessable or not, the Revenue nor the bank can tax a person, just for receiving a deposit.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Galong said:

My accountant said 60. I hope she's right as my wife is 60 and it'd be nice if she was exempt too. 🤞🤞

65 does sound more realistic though to be honest. 

 

It's 65, suggest you read the link below.

 

 

[proton]

11 minutes ago, GregKeo said:

My understanding is that Any foreign income deposited into your Thai bank account will be reported to the Thai tax authorities and will be taxed accordingly, unless you can show evidence that the money is exempt from Thai tax. For example a pension from your home country may be exempted via a double taxation agreement between the two countries, however you will need to provide the evidence to show that. 

 

Better to educate yourself than deal with the issues of non-compliance if you must pay. 

 

Where do you get that understanding from?

[VBF]

9 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Again, I see no connection to anyone retired sending savings from abroad. I can fully support earnings being taxed in Thailand if not in another country. 

 

This is also going to potentially kill digital nomads !!

How?  If they have their money sent to a non-Thai account, and then tell the Thai tax dept that remittances are from savings earned a long time ago.

This doesn't affect me but I really don't see how it can be enforced unless and until it's tied in with visa renewals.

[SmartyMarty]

10 hours ago, wimpy said:

90% of my daily expenses are paid with a foreign credit card. What little cash I use is brought in through atm withdrawals, and goes into my pocket. Good luck taxing that.

You must love being gouged by bank exchange rates.

[VBF]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Foreign sourced income earned before 1 January 2024 is taxed in accordance with the old rules. That means savings earned before 31 December 2023, are tax free when remitted, if remitted in a year other than the one in which they were earned.

So anyone with savings, can make their remittances from their savings, even  if they happen to also be earning new income outside Thailand? 

I do know that one does not need to be officially retired to get a retirement extension.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

So anyone with savings, can make their remittances from their savings, even  if they happen to also be earning new income outside Thailand? 

I do know that one does not need to be officially retired to get a retirement extension.

That is correct, as long as the savings and remittances are in line with my post you quoted..

[worrab]

41 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Delete this post immediately.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that somehow you copied someone else's post and pasted it under my name by mistake.  I never stated what the above and believe the opposite.

I apologise and do not know how this happened. The quote should have been attributed to John Phuket. Apologies again.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, worrab said:

I apologise and do not know how this happened. The quote should have been attributed to John Phuket. Apologies again.

That may not have been your fault, I think there is an issue with the editor cache at times. Ill report it.

[atpeace]

5 hours ago, Jaxxper said:

I think this is just scaremongering. Each individuals tax position is specific to them.

I agree you’ve got to pay tax somewhere, but not be taxed on money you’ve already been taxed on.

I’m sure the requirements will be made clear as the tax filing date approaches. I don’t think the time for drastic moves is here yet. Just my view.

Exactly. This fear is strange.  I have some slight reservations but don't see any issue with the new tax law. The implementation will be difficult in my opinion but I could be wrong.  Thailand isn't trying to tax saving brought into Thailand and this is explicitly stated. How they will tax income brought into Thailand after 2024 will be interesting but not a concern for me.  I could live here for many decades  of what I have in savings that were taxed already and as the new regs state will not be taxed.

 

Why all the fear about a nothing burger?