New Tax Rules for Expats in Thailand Spark Concern

[2ndhomepattaya]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Given that we are almost in June, you need to leave Thailand soon.

The tax filing needs to be done latest March 2025 so plenty of time to leave

[anchadian]

So much discussion and there's a simple legal way around this.

If you're concerned, I'm certainly not.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Derek B said:

If you maintain 800K for the purposes of visa renewal you are not actually showing any Thai income except interest accrued.

 

If you go the 65K per month route that income is already spent 100% in the "village" economy so to speak. The resultant "village" income will drop by the tax deducted which will go to central government coffers and will not be returned directly to the local economy. So effectiviely there is no levelling up with the locals only a net decline. I good vote loser policy it seems.

 

No matter what you will have to declare your global income I expect once you are given a Thai Tax ID number.

 

Until the dust settles limit your days incountry to 179 then leave until 2025 and only bring cash into Thailand.

 

Note: Some tax authorities have a general definition of 180 days that being for example in any continuous period of 365 days over successive tax years if 180 days are spent in country you would be a tax resident.

 

Your statement in bold above in categorically untrue. Foreign tax residents in Thailand are taxed on a remittance basis, not on the basis of arising or on worldwide income, regardless of whether they have a Thai TIN or not..

[ianwheldale]

When the Thai IRS gives me a TIN I will start to take notice. Until then it's all rumour and spin.

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

No it will not. Companies and people will just be subject to tax in line with OECD, UN and CRS norms and local taxation rules.

 

Thailand as a country will still survive and they can amend their tax laws further if something is not working.

 

This was like shooting themselves in the foot, they might survive, but it would have been better to study the pros and cons first. You know, like before putting the loaded weapon in it's holster with the safety off.

[Cornishman]

5 hours ago, motdaeng said:

the big open question is, will the new tax law be enforced by the tax revenue department?

 

 

When it becomes part of the visa application 

[Xonax]

3 hours ago, wimpy said:

90% of my daily expenses are paid with a foreign credit card. What little cash I use is brought in through atm withdrawals, and goes into my pocket. Good luck taxing that.

This seems like a bulletproof loophole. There will probably be found other ways to get around the demand for taxation. The most obvious way to avoid taxation in Thailand, will be to spend as little money as possible in Thailand, compared to now, where we spend or save all your money in Thailand. I guess that this was not the governments intention with this law. I have already started paying for all my international purchases with my foreign credit card, in order to avoid taxation in Thailand.

I am from a country with a double taxation agreement with Thailand and my pension have already been taxed before I receive it. I wonder if I will be able to deduct the full already paid tax, when I transfer only a smaller amount of my pension to Thailand. 

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

This is Thailand, nobody follows the rules, especially Thais.

Any post discussing tax evasion, will be removed and warnings issued.

 

And for information:

 

13. You will not comment on actions taken by individual moderators or on specific or general policies and issues. You will not post a negative emoticon in response to a public notice made by a moderator. 

 

https://aseannow.com/forum_rules/

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Xonax said:

This seems like a bulletproof loophole. There will probably be found other ways to get around the demand for taxation. The most obvious way to avoid taxation in Thailand, will be to spend as little money as possible in Thailand, compared to now, where we spend or save all your money in Thailand. I guess that this was not the governments intention with this law. I have already started paying for all my international purchases with my foreign credit card, in order to avoid taxation in Thailand.

I am from a country with a double taxation agreement with Thailand and my pension have already been taxed before I receive it. I wonder if I will be able to deduct the full already paid tax, when I transfer only a smaller amount of my pension to Thailand. 

Several sources, including the TRD, have confirmed that spending by tax residents, on a foreign credit card , in Thailand, represents assessable income in Thailand. 

[freeworld]

6 minutes ago, Cornishman said:

When it becomes part of the visa application 

Making stuff up. There are already financial requirements to get a visa. Tax is dealt with by the tax department not by immigration department.

[bob smith]

18 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Compared to Thailand, being an immigrant in the USA is a dream.....here, you are treated as a nuisance while they pick your pocket and scam you to death.

well said.

 

the question I keep asking myself is why do us well-heeled farangs subject ourselves each and every year to the constant cycle of abuse?

 

we must be rather masochistic by nature...

 

bob.

[john donson]

36 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

What representation do Immigrants to your home country get for their taxes?

 

citizenship is one for sure... social welfare, unemployment money if they worked more than 1 year, pension, free schooling for children... need more ? right to buy a house in their name and land... no 90 day reporting and yearly immigration visit where a corrupt IO or just in a bad mood can deny your extension...

[FutureEx]

Dear Thailand. Cambodia, Laos and The Philippines thank you so much for sending many of your retirees to us. Well done! 

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, ianwheldale said:

When the Thai IRS gives me a TIN I will start to take notice. Until then it's all rumour and spin.

They wont give you one unless you apply for one.

[lordgrinz]

2 minutes ago, bob smith said:

well said.

 

question I keep asking myself is why do us well-heeled farangs subject ourselves each and every year to the constant cycle of abuse?

 

we must be rather masochistic by nature...

 

bob.

 

Yup.....we are their little puppets........"Hey Farang, JUMP!"

[J Branche]

31 minutes ago, AllanA said:

I think a lot of the retirees will end up moving to another country now and most likely Cambodia or Vietnam as they won’t be able to afford being taxed in Thailand plus anyone thinking of Thailand as a place to retire now would seriously be thinking of a new destination. All this is definitely going to hurt places like Hua Hin, Pattaya, Chang Mai and outer Phuket where a lot of retirees currently live. 

Why?  Provide references for your statement.

US Tax Agreement PDF page 23 pensions and social security may only be taxed by USA.  

All tax residents are allowed similar Thai Revenue Tax deductions and Exemptions.  

 

So These people Will spend all the time to pack up and move But not 1 hour to read, understand or consult with a professional?

 

Develop your strategy.  Use Every Legal deduction, Exemption, law and order that any reasonable and capable person would use.  Start NOW, keeping proof, documentation, of the Source of this Assessable Foreign Sourced Income if it will be Remitted into Thailand.

 

Maybe these people need pictures to better understand Google Thailand Revenue Department.  Taxes Foreigners_Pay_2024.pdf

 

Relax and go back to Enjoy this Great Country of Thailand 

[Presnock]

23 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Believe whatever you want to, they get boatloads of support in the USA.

and can travel around free of immigration police

[bob smith]

4 minutes ago, FutureEx said:

Dear Thailand. Cambodia, Laos and The Philippines thank you so much for sending many of your retirees to us. Well done! 

Phils sounds great tbh.

 

Problem is I would probably put my back out after a few weeks from all the poundin I would be doin!

 

bob.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

19 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Compared to Thailand, being an immigrant in the USA is a dream.....here, you are treated as a nuisance while they pick your pocket and scam you to death.

There is a distinctive difference between a an Immigrant visa and a Non-Immigrant visa.

[freeworld]

11 minutes ago, Presnock said:

and can travel around free of immigration police

Haha you think so.

 

For the US.

 

100 Mile Border Zone

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects people from random and arbitrary stops and searches. Although the federal government claims the power to conduct certain kinds of warrantless stops within 100 miles of the U.S. border, important Fourth Amendment protections still apply. This helps you understand your rights within the 100-mile border zone.

 

Are immigration officials allowed to stop people in places wholly inside the U.S.?

U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the federal agency tasked with patrolling the U.S. border and areas that function like a border, claims a territorial reach much larger than you might imagine. A federal law says that, without a warrant, CBP can board vehicles and vessels and search for people without immigration documentation “within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States.” These “external boundaries” include international land borders but also the entire U.S. coastline.

 

In Thailand have never been approached or stopped by an immigration officer inside the borders.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

and can travel around free of immigration police

I bet you'd miss it if somebody wasn't asking you to make more copies of something or report this and that every other day......it's a lifestyle choice. 

[Cabradelmar]

Tax day is tax day. Even for the majority of all Thais who never pay any Income tax. Nothing new. Income tax has always been self reported, and still is, nothing changed (and still not linked to immigration). As with most countries, if you have no accessible income, there is nothing to file as you owe no tax. Same as it ever was.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

7 minutes ago, bob smith said:

well said.

Did you even read the post you are responding to?

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

I bet you'd miss it if somebody wasn't asking you to make more copies of something or report this and that every other day......it's a lifestyle choice. 

You mean like the start of this subject today and several folks repeating the same old messages over and over and yet we still are in the same situation we have been in since it all started!  I sure don't know how you have been able to listen to so many repeats.....and repeats ...and repeats...

[Ebumbu]

 

4 hours ago, WingFat said:

Americans get a foreign tax credit on their US taxes for taxes paid in a foreign country, so no change for them. I don't know about how it will work out for Eritreans.

 

Am I understanding you correctly? Did you just say that Americans like me can deduct any taxes paid to Thailand from their US taxes? If I bring in a million baht from the US and pay Thai taxes on that, the Thai taxes will be deductible from my US taxes? If so, that effectively means I'll continue to pay no Thai taxes. Am I getting it right? That would be a relief. 

[Presnock]

4 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Haha you think so.

 

For the US.

100 Mile Border Zone

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects people from random and arbitrary stops and searches. Although the federal government claims the power to conduct certain kinds of warrantless stops within 100 miles of the U.S. border, important Fourth Amendment protections still apply. This helps you understand your rights within the 100-mile border zone.

 

In Thailand have never been approached or stopped by an immigration officer.

yeah, I notice from US news that foreigners/immigrants keep begin refused entry of US military bases in different locations - nowhere near any of the borders even....accept it, Americans still have many more freedoms for everyone than many places.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

You mean like the start of this subject today and several folks repeating the same old messages over and over and yet we still are in the same situation we have been in since it all started!  I sure don't know how you have been able to listen to so many repeats.....and repeats ...and repeats...

It's either this or fix the fence and this seemed easier.

[Dmaxdan]

I've never really been that worried about filing a tax return and potentially paying tax in Thailand. In real terms I only transfer small amounts into Thailand each month.

 

But what does concern me big time is the actual logistics of doing a tax return properly.

I live in Chiang Mai province with, apparently 30,000 other long term expats.

How the hell are the RD in Chiang Mai going to process that many ignorant foreigner's tax returns within the first three months of the year???

We will all have to all camp out the night before just in the vain hope of getting a slot!!!

This is a side of this that the government hasn't thought through...

 

Okay, so maybe a percentage of the long term expats may work here and therefore pay tax on their salaries. But even so...

 

People will say "get an accountant or a financial advisor" but there can't possibly be enough English speaking advisors to go around. And none of them can start working for you until this year is over. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Am I understanding you correctly? Did you just say that Americans like me can deduct any taxes paid to Thailand from their US taxes? If I bring in a million baht from the US and pay Thai taxes on that, the Thai taxes will be deductible from my US taxes? If so, that effectively means I'll continue to pay no Thai taxes. Am I getting it right? That would be a relief. 

Not exactly. Let me ask @JimGant to explain it to you, he can be useful when explaining the US side of things.

[bob smith]

12 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Did you even read the post you are responding to?

Yes, I did.

 

And my original comment of 'well said' still stands.

 

You know as well as I that the vast majority of farangs living in Thailand will never get the chance to become a fully fledged immigrant (i,e PR) due to being retirees and not having 3 years of Thai income based Tax Returns.

 

Now, if this new tax law means that those farangs who are paying taxes on money remitted into Thailand can apply for PR/Citizenship on that basis, then that would be a step in the right direction and I am sure there would be many takers.

 

I highly doubt that will be the case though.

 

So it's business as usual. Let's just fleece the farang for all that they are worth without giving them an inch back in return. 

 

bob.