Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Just now, placeholder said: Where do the aid agencies say that the lack of police isn't a problem. This is from the NY Times The extreme anarchy that has gripped the Gaza Strip is making it too dangerous and difficult to distribute desperately needed aid in the south, relief groups and others say, despite a daily pause in fighting that Israel is observing along a key road there... The grim situation is part of the domino effect of the Israeli campaign in Gaza, which has toppled much of the Hamas government without any civilian administration to take its place. In much of Gaza, there are no police officers to prevent chaos, few municipal workers to clean up heaping mounds of rubble and trash, and only the bare minimum of public services https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/19/world/middleeast/gaza-aid-chaos.html You think that there might be a relationship between anarchy and lack of policing? And we know that the police are afraid of Israeli strikes. And if the US contradicts itself, in a way that's transparently obvious, then, yes it's lying. Or, as it's sometimes called, diplomacy. As for the possibility that the IDF is lying...seriously? We know that they've lied in the past. What motive does it have to be truthful? Where do the aid agencies say that it is because of a lack of police? What did they say the reason was? Did you read the article I posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 10 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: Where do the aid agencies say that it is because of a lack of police? What did they say the reason was? Did you read the article I posted? This is from the article you linked to: “As the IDF has stepped back, various violent actors have stepped in, to the point where the much-diminished Hamas enforcers cannot get control of independent families and gangs,” Leaf says, adding that humanitarian workers are facing incredibly high risks and that the US is working with Israel to ameliorate some of these issues. Aid organizations have argued that Israel’s continued military operations are the reason for the distribution bottlenecks, with convoys routinely held up or turned back at IDF checkpoints throughout the Strip. Israel announced that it would be implementing daily localized pauses to allow more aid to be distributed earlier this week, but aid groups say they have yet to lead to improvements on the ground. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/senior-us-official-says-israel-not-behind-aid-distribution-woes-in-gaza/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, Neeranam said: What is wrong with these settlers? Israeli settlers in Jericho block aid trucks heading to Gaza: Reports Israeli settlers have reportedly gathered at the eastern entrance to the occupied West Bank city of Jericho to block humanitarian aid trucks heading towards the Gaza Strip, the Wafa news agency reports. https://aje.io/b6bjuw?update=2986227 They are evil? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 10 hours ago, placeholder said: This is from the article you linked to: “As the IDF has stepped back, various violent actors have stepped in, to the point where the much-diminished Hamas enforcers cannot get control of independent families and gangs,” Leaf says, adding that humanitarian workers are facing incredibly high risks and that the US is working with Israel to ameliorate some of these issues. Aid organizations have argued that Israel’s continued military operations are the reason for the distribution bottlenecks, with convoys routinely held up or turned back at IDF checkpoints throughout the Strip. Israel announced that it would be implementing daily localized pauses to allow more aid to be distributed earlier this week, but aid groups say they have yet to lead to improvements on the ground. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/senior-us-official-says-israel-not-behind-aid-distribution-woes-in-gaza/ Yes "Aid organizations have argued that Israel’s continued military operations are the reason for the distribution bottlenecks" So where does it say its because of a lack of Hamas police as you claimed? The IDF have now also put in place daily pauses in fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcarer Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: They are evil? Yep, not good, do you think this is also evil? Hamas Fires Rockets at Kerem Shalom Crossing Hours After Reopening “Hamas continues to target the Kerem Shalom crossing in order to harm Israeli forces, humanitarians, and workers who are at the location to facilitate the delivery of aid to Gaza. Hamas’s cynical terrorist attacks make the delivery of aid to the population of Gaza more difficult and symbolize how Hamas exploits the suffering in Gaza for its own benefit.” — Seth J. Frantzman, FDD Adjunct Fellow https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/09/hamas-fires-rockets-at-kerem-shalom-crossing-hours-after-reopening/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said: Yes "Aid organizations have argued that Israel’s continued military operations are the reason for the distribution bottlenecks" So where does it say its because of a lack of Hamas police as you claimed? The IDF have now also put in place daily pauses in fighting. It does say "much diminished Hamas enforcers". I think police number among them. And since we already know that police aren't patrolling for fear of Israeli strikes, what more do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 5 minutes ago, placeholder said: It does say "much diminished Hamas enforcers". I think police number among them. And since we already know that police aren't patrolling for fear of Israeli strikes, what more do you need? It says a lot of things, none of them are what you claimed. So just to confirm, you don't believe the US officials, the aid agencies also do not agree and the IDF do not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: It says a lot of things, none of them are what you claimed. So just to confirm, you don't believe the US officials, the aid agencies also do not agree and the IDF do not agree. Your takeaway is ridiculous. I took the article in which a relief agency official specifically cited 'much-diminished Hamas enforcers who cannot get control" as a major reason the aid can't get through. We know that the police are afraid to show up for fear of Israeli strikes. You'll note that the diplomat says there's no evidence that Israeli is trying to impede it. That's in the present tense. She does refer the effects of what Israel has done, namely the "much diminished Hamas enforcers", it's effect on the security and deliveries. If you care to go on being disingenuous, there's nothing I can do about jt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, placeholder said: Your takeaway is ridiculous. I took the article in which a relief agency official specifically cited 'much-diminished Hamas enforcers who cannot get control" as a major reason the aid can't get through. We know that the police are afraid to show up for fear of Israeli strikes. You'll note that the diplomat says there's no evidence that Israeli is trying to impede it. That's in the present tense. She does refer the effects of what Israel has done, namely the "much diminished Hamas enforcers", it's effect on the security and deliveries. If you care to go on being disingenuous, there's nothing I can do about jt. Because you say so does not make it so. You've already admitted you don't believe the US officials. So just to confirm, you don't believe the US officials, the aid agencies also do not agree and the IDF do not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 https://x.com/Israel/status/1803435524440424857 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 56 minutes ago, placeholder said: It does say "much diminished Hamas enforcers". I think police number among them. And since we already know that police aren't patrolling for fear of Israeli strikes, what more do you need? The Gaza Police are Hamas controlled 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: The Gaza Police are Hamas controlled The Gaza government is, or at least, was Hamas controlled. So naturally the police are ultimately ruled by Hamas. Does that make them terrorists by contagion? The Hamas govt also had garbage collectors, tax collectors, a postal workers. Are they also terrorists? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, placeholder said: The Gaza government is, or at least, was Hamas controlled. So naturally the police are ultimately ruled by Hamas. Does that make them terrorists by contagion? The Hamas govt also had garbage collectors, tax collectors, a postal workers. Are they also terrorists? That doesn't fit into the discussion . I don't have the time to explain what the discussion is about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 27 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: That doesn't fit into the discussion . I don't have the time to explain what the discussion is about The discussion is about famine. There is a huge problem in getting food supplies to distribution warehouses. That's because of a lack of security. Police are afraid to serve in Rafah because of the fear of Israeli strikes. People like you justified attacks on the police because "The Gaza Police are Hamas controlled." I don't think you understand what the discussion is about. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) 9 minutes ago, placeholder said: The discussion is about famine. There is a huge problem in getting food supplies to distribution warehouses. That's because of a lack of security. Police are afraid to serve in Rafah because of the fear of Israeli strikes. People like you justified attacks on the police because "The Gaza Police are Hamas controlled." I don't think you understand what the discussion is about. So if Hamas police are controlled by Hamas which we all know, why should they be trusted when they are accused of this? Its pointless trying to compare them to ancillary workers, Hamas police have guns, postmen do not. "From the start of the war, armed Hamas operatives have hijacked most of the deliveries, meaning that the aid goes to the terrorists and not to the civilians they use as human shields. While media outlets often note that Hamas is accused of stealing the goods, they generally put that down only as an unsubstantiated accusation from Israel and its supporters. Given the admission that the aid that was delivered from the U.S. pier is not getting to Palestinian civilians, there is no other remotely plausible explanation for this failure other than the fact that armed Palestinians are preventing it from being handed out to their compatriots who may need it." Why would the US find it legitimate to stop Hamas operatives at Rafah crossing? “One of the things that Israel said — which is very much accurate — is that Hamas [still] controlled the Gaza side of Rafah crossing, and Hamas was continuing to collect revenue from that crossing being open,” the State Department spokesperson explained. “So it is a legitimate goal to try and deprive Hamas of money that they could use to continue to finance their terrorist activities.” Edited June 20 by Bkk Brian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Just now, Bkk Brian said: So is Hamas police are controlled by Hamas which we all know, why should they be trusted when they are accused of this? Its pointless trying to compare them to ancillary workers, Hamas police have guns, postmen do not. "From the start of the war, armed Hamas operatives have hijacked most of the deliveries, meaning that the aid goes to the terrorists and not to the civilians they use as human shields. While media outlets often note that Hamas is accused of stealing the goods, they generally put that down only as an unsubstantiated accusation from Israel and its supporters. Given the admission that the aid that was delivered from the U.S. pier is not getting to Palestinian civilians, there is no other remotely plausible explanation for this failure other than the fact that armed Palestinians are preventing it from being handed out to their compatriots who may need it." Why would the US find it legitimate to stop Hamas operatives at Rafah crossing? “One of the things that Israel said — which is very much accurate — is that Hamas [still] controlled the Gaza side of Rafah crossing, and Hamas was continuing to collect revenue from that crossing being open,” the State Department spokesperson explained. “So it is a legitimate goal to try and deprive Hamas of money that they could use to continue to finance their terrorist activities.” You trust a claim from JNS? U.S. envoy says Israel has not shown evidence that Hamas is diverting UN aid in Gaza World Feb 17, 2024 1:55 PM EDT Israel has not presented specific evidence for its claim that Hamas is diverting U.N. aid, and its recent targeted killings of Gaza police commanders safeguarding truck convoys have made it “virtually impossible” to distribute the goods safely, a top U.S. envoy said in rare public criticism of Israel... David Satterfield, the Biden administration’s special Middle East envoy for humanitarian issues, said that with the departure of police escorts following Israeli strikes, criminal gangs are increasingly targeting the truck convoys carrying badly needed aid. He said the lawlessness as well as regular Israeli protests at entry points by those opposed to aid going into Gaza have disrupted delivery. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-envoy-says-israel-has-not-shown-evidence-that-hamas-is-diverting-un-aid-in-gaza 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 4 minutes ago, placeholder said: You trust a claim from JNS? U.S. envoy says Israel has not shown evidence that Hamas is diverting UN aid in Gaza World Feb 17, 2024 1:55 PM EDT Israel has not presented specific evidence for its claim that Hamas is diverting U.N. aid, and its recent targeted killings of Gaza police commanders safeguarding truck convoys have made it “virtually impossible” to distribute the goods safely, a top U.S. envoy said in rare public criticism of Israel... David Satterfield, the Biden administration’s special Middle East envoy for humanitarian issues, said that with the departure of police escorts following Israeli strikes, criminal gangs are increasingly targeting the truck convoys carrying badly needed aid. He said the lawlessness as well as regular Israeli protests at entry points by those opposed to aid going into Gaza have disrupted delivery. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-envoy-says-israel-has-not-shown-evidence-that-hamas-is-diverting-un-aid-in-gaza Oh ok, so its back to selective belief from you, you don't believe US officials and now you don't believe JNS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Oh ok, so its back to selective belief from you, you don't believe US officials and now you don't believe JNS. No one should ever believe JNS on its says o alone. And the US official's words are significant because they run against the US stated support of Israel. Also, as I pointed out, on reflection I noted that the US diplomat said Israel wasn't currently engaged in activity to stop shipments. She didn't say anything about the effects of it's past activity on shipments. Which was very diplomatic of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 31 minutes ago, placeholder said: The discussion is about famine. There is a huge problem in getting food supplies to distribution warehouses. That's because of a lack of security. Police are afraid to serve in Rafah because of the fear of Israeli strikes. People like you justified attacks on the police because "The Gaza Police are Hamas controlled." I don't think you understand what the discussion is about. It was only very recently that Gaza was being carpet bombed and there were no safe areas , have the Gazain Police now found somewhere safe to stay ? Hamas control the food aid in Gaza and the Police would stay away from the food if Hamas told them to . The Police are keeping away from the food on Hamas's orders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Just now, Nick Carter icp said: It was only very recently that Gaza was being carpet bombed and there were no safe areas , have the Gazain Police now found somewhere safe to stay ? Hamas control the food aid in Gaza and the Police would stay away from the food if Hamas told them to . The Police are keeping away from the food on Hamas's orders From the landing page of the World News Forum: "Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source." I'm waiting but I won't be holding my breath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) 7 minutes ago, placeholder said: No one should ever believe JNS on its says o alone. And the US official's words are significant because they run against the US stated support of Israel. Also, as I pointed out, on reflection I noted that the US diplomat said Israel wasn't currently engaged in activity to stop shipments. She didn't say anything about the effects of it's past activity on shipments. Which was very diplomatic of her. Who was asking you to believe it on its own, there are two links there, the other quoting the State Dept. Did you also notice the link in JNS to the brand new UN report cancelling the famine? Or at least calling it into serious question? Why do you pick out the JNS as nobody should be trusting it on its own? Edited June 20 by Bkk Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 41 minutes ago, placeholder said: s. People like you justified attacks on the police because "The Gaza Police are Hamas controlled." I don't think you understand what the discussion is about. That is a false allegation . I haven't justified attacks on the Police 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: That is a false allegation . I haven't justified attacks on the Police Well, if I have the time, I will go back and find your comments about the Israeli attacks on police escorts of trucks in february. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 2 minutes ago, placeholder said: Well, if I have the time, I will go back and find your comments about the Israeli attacks on police escorts of trucks in february. Either do that and back up your claims, or withdraw the allegation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Just one of many reports that some would prefer to deny: Just days after the first shipments of humanitarian aid arrived at the new U.S.-built temporary pier on the shore of the Gaza Strip, the project appears doomed to fail as Reuters reports that nearly 70% of the aid delivered so far has been stolen by Hamas terrorists. https://allisrael.com/hamas-steals-70-of-aid-trucks-cripples-deliveries-via-new-u-s-built-gaza-pier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 7 minutes ago, placeholder said: Well, if I have the time, I will go back and find your comments about the Israeli attacks on police escorts of trucks in february. Those were Hamas members guarding/stealing the food aid along with the Gaza police for support . Israel blew those guys up with missiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Those were Hamas members guarding/stealing the food aid along with the Gaza police for support . Israel blew those guys up with missiles Great. Find me that quote and link to it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 4 minutes ago, placeholder said: Great. Find me that quote and link to it. You want me to provide a link to my own quote ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 3 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Israeli are killing civilians trying to get food, it is totally sickening. Nothing to do with police. More than 100 people were killed amid devastating scenes in northern Gaza, where Israeli troops opened fire Thursday, triggering panic as hungry Palestinian civilians were gathering around food aid trucks, Palestinian officials and eyewitnesses said. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-city-deaths-food-israel-intl/index.html Months old and discussed many times, IDF claim it was responsible for just 10 casualties, Hamas disagrees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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