Who said you bank/s aren't passing on your information to governments. Expats be advised !

[KhunHeineken]

21 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

His companies had losses, you don't pay income tax on overall loss for the calendar year.  Never confuse wealth with income.

It's well documented how these companies manufacture "loss."  Massive loans to shell companies in low tax jurisdictions, that are also owned / controlled by themselves. 

 

The whole point is, they are wealthy individuals that pay no personal tax, and I have provided some links for this. 

 

I am not suggesting anything illegal, just that some of the world's wealthiest people pay little to no personal tax. 

 

Happy to read some links showing the contrary. 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Plenty on the internet about it.  These are from a quick Google search.

 

For the Americans.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

 

"ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/tax-evasion-by-wealthiest-americans-tops-150-billion-a-year-irs.html

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/23/business/billionaires-global-tax/index.html

 

"Billionaires’ personal tax in the United States is estimated to be close to 0.5% and as low as zero in otherwise high-tax France, the Observatory estimated."

 

For the Australians.

 

https://www.9news.com.au/finance/australia-millionaires-ato-data-rich-people-paying-no-tax/726563bf-9fd7-4da4-ae18-498308aac038

 

"Sixty-six millionaires earning almost a billion dollars put together paid no tax last year, according to new data from the ATO."

 

 

And politicians like Donald Trump promise to lower again taxes on the richest folks and therefore the shirinking middle class needs to keep the coffers filled for the other politicians. 

[Presnock]

43 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

His companies had losses, you don't pay income tax on overall loss for the calendar year.  Never confuse wealth with income.

Yeah Donald also went a couple of years without paying any taxes - claiming losses while being the self proclaimed best businessman and negotiator in the world.  The richer the slimier in my opinion...they mile the system and pay lawyers and agents to scam every possible loophole to avoid paying any taxes or very little compared to the average JOE.  Even Warren Buffet every year at tax time talks about how screwed up the tax system is when he pays less taxes than his secretary has to pay each year. I personally have heard him claim this many times in interviews.

[topt]

45 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Even Warren Buffet every year at tax time talks about how screwed up the tax system is when he pays less taxes than his secretary has to pay each year. I personally have heard him claim this many times in interviews.

Agreed.

 

[MangoKorat]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As I asked earlier, please provide just one empirical example of a rich person consistently paying little or no income tax.  You claimed that it happens, so you back up your claim.  The Panama Papers do not specifically detail individuals' tax payments as evidence that they "consistently pay little or no income tax" which is the claim that you made.

Why should I back up my claim - simply because you want me to?

 

Several governments around the world are still investigating people as a result of The Panama Papers - Google it.

 

If you want specific examples of tax evaders being jailed/prosecuted for tax evasion - then again, Google is probably your best source but, just to be going along with:

 

https://www.vanderpumpandsykes.co.uk/site/library/legalnews/tax_evasion_leads_to_prison_and_500000_repayment_order.html

 

https://www.fawcetts.co.uk/self-employed-plumber-jailed-for-tax-evasion-494/

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texas-man-sentenced-41-months-prison-tax-evasion

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22429181

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/georgia-bar-and-restaurant-owner-sentenced-prison-tax-evasion

 

Need I go on? If I made some wild claim, I could perhaps understand your request but when something is common knowledge, well you're just being an a s s.

 

https://views-voices.oxfam.org.uk/2023/01/how-super-rich-pay-lower-taxes-than-you/

 

https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/sophisticated-tax-evasion-by-the-super-rich

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/billionaires-tax-avoidance-techniques-irs-files

 

They are even open about it:

 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-3417950/City-bigwig-famously-admitted-paid-tax-cleaner-appointed-chairman-estate-agent-Savills.html

 

Why do you think 'Tax Havens' exist and why are several countries trying to close them down? The existence of tax havens and their use is well known:

 

https://www.taxwatchuk.org/ccff_companies/

 

I used to work for a large multinational chemical company and whilst I paid my taxes normally through the PAYE system, the company itself located its headquarters in a tax haven.  Head office (which was actually just an accountants in Abu Dhabi) sent 'management charges' forward at the end of every tax year that reduced the profits of the company's subsidiaries. The actual profits were then taxed in Abu Dhabi at a much lower rate - all fully legal but its tax avoidance whatever. The chairman of the company and several board members all listed their personal addresses in tax havens.

 

You might also want to look into the tax activities of Google and Amazon - do you need the links?

 

Can you do that?  Can any average person?

 

So, the next time you try to pick holes in something I've posted, when its common knowledge, I won't even bother replying to you - just giving you advance notice. My time is too valuable to waste it on pedants!

[Sticky Rice Balls]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:30 AM, 4MyEgo said:

although I could be wrong ?

could have fooled me by your clickbait Header....is it safe to come out from under the bed yet??????

[MangoKorat]

5 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As I asked earlier, please provide just one empirical example of a rich person consistently paying little or no income tax.  You claimed that it happens, so you back up your claim.  The Panama Papers do not specifically detail individuals' tax payments as evidence that they "consistently pay little or no income tax" which is the claim that you made.

In addition to my previous reply - and before you ask, you can either check this out yourself of regard me as a liar - I don't really care which. I work, I have more to do with my time than pamper to your wishes:

 

I watched a BBC news report recently where both US and UK law enforcment authorities were trying to prove the ownership of several 'Superyachts' - suspected of being owned by Russian Oligarchs with links to Putin as they were trying to confiscate them.

 

The web of 'shell companies' and 'nominee directors' used to 'own' those craft was unbelievable. Many were set up long before Putin attacked anyone so perhaps you can tell me.............why would they do that?  Why not simply own them?

 

In addition, I know someone personally who avoided paying any tax at all on the sale of a company around 25 years ago.  The gentleman in question is the brother of a close friend who since leaving school, had built up a small 'White Lining' company into a a major UK road marking and traffic management company in a relatively short time.  How he did that is another story but it involved government contracts and brown envelopes (I know that factually but I'm not about to reveal how).

 

He sold the company for £14 million and the transaction took place the day after he left the country and became domiciled in a tax haven, I think it was the Cayman Islands but I can't remember.  He could do that legally at that time (I believe that loophole is now closed) but he was not allowed to become domiciled in the UK again for 7 years - or he would become liable for tax. I believe he was allowed to visit the UK for a set number of days each year though.

 

He even found a way around that and was back living in the UK within a few years - entering and leaving through 'the back door' - fly into Ireland, train to Northern Ireland (no passport needed), ferry from Northern Ireland to the UK (no passport needed).

 

All these things cost money - much more money than most of us have and so cannot conduct our tax affairs 'efficiently' - I think they call it.  The cost for those who can though, is far less than the tax they would pay otherwise.

 

Can I take it from your pedantic demands that you don't think the rich avoid tax?

Edited June 11 by MangoKorat

[jayboy]

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

One last time for the slow one/s.

 

If you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are NOT required to register for a TIN, if you do not have an assessable income and NEVER will, you are not required to lodge a tax return.

 

If you don't get that, then don't bother with it as I'm done.

 

Call the Thai Taxation Office for confirmation, you might believe it when it comes from the horses mouth, nah probably not.

 

What is overlooked is the pressure from overseas banks for expats resident in Thailand to obtain a TIN with the threat initially muffled and then explicit that if one doesn't, then one will lose the account.My situation and I imagine the same for many is that I cannot function without an overseas account.I batted my bank off for years but finally I got a TIN.This has no impact on whether I file a return or not.

[DrPhibes]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

Yeah Donald also went a couple of years without paying any taxes - claiming losses while being the self proclaimed best businessman and negotiator in the world.  The richer the slimier in my opinion...they mile the system and pay lawyers and agents to scam every possible loophole to avoid paying any taxes or very little compared to the average JOE.  Even Warren Buffet every year at tax time talks about how screwed up the tax system is when he pays less taxes than his secretary has to pay each year. I personally have heard him claim this many times in interviews.

Buffet complains his tax bracket is lower than his secretary.  His actual tax paid is huge.

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, DrPhibes said:

Buffet complains his tax bracket is lower than his secretary.  His actual tax paid is huge.

I'm not American, but if what some members say is true, and that is, Buffet has stated he pays less tax than his secretary, can you elaborate on your post? 

 

I have no doubt his various companies pay tax, but, can you post a link showing the "huge"tax HE pays? 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

What is overlooked is the pressure from overseas banks for expats resident in Thailand to obtain a TIN with the threat initially muffled and then explicit that if one doesn't, then one will lose the account.My situation and I imagine the same for many is that I cannot function without an overseas account.I batted my bank off for years but finally I got a TIN.This has no impact on whether I file a return or not.

In the near future, when their home country bank asks where they reside, many will just say their home country.  Some will even feel secure using a VPN when they reply the their bank's request.  Don't ask me why. 

 

However, the bank has to report the reply to their tax department, which, if not now, will eventually be, connected to their immigration department.  Then, it's game over.  

 

We all look at China and their control of their citizens, but Big Brother is watching your money in the west.  Times are changing. 

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

The web of 'shell companies' and 'nominee directors' used to 'own' those craft was unbelievable. Many were set up long before Putin attacked anyone so perhaps you can tell me.............why would they do that?  Why not simply own them?

A lot of people in Thailand have done the same to buy land / property here.  In my opinion, the hammer could drop on them anytime, but hey, everyone else is doing it. 

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As I asked earlier, please provide just one empirical example of a rich person consistently paying little or no income tax.  You claimed that it happens, so you back up your claim.  The Panama Papers do not specifically detail individuals' tax payments as evidence that they "consistently pay little or no income tax" which is the claim that you made.

Expand  

Why should I back up my claim - simply because you want me to?

Why?  For credibility, of course.  If you could, you would and, as you made the claim originally, the onus is on you to justify it.

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As I asked earlier, please provide just one empirical example of a rich person consistently paying little or no income tax.  You claimed that it happens, so you back up your claim.  The Panama Papers do not specifically detail individuals' tax payments as evidence that they "consistently pay little or no income tax" which is the claim that you made.

Expand  

In addition to my previous reply - and before you ask, you can either check this out yourself of regard me as a liar - I don't really care which. I work, I have more to do with my time than pamper to your wishes:

"...check this out yourself of regard me as a liar..."

I'll go with the latter option that you offered as you cannot justify your claim.  If you had any actual evidence you'd have presented it as doing so would take far less time than your farcical back and forth that you now claim that you have no time for.  But that suits me.

[MangoKorat]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...check this out yourself of regard me as a liar..."

I'll go with the latter option that you offered as you cannot justify your claim.  If you had any actual evidence you'd have presented it as doing so would take far less time than your farcical back and forth that you now claim that you have no time for.  But that suits me.

That is precisely why I often refuse to provide links.  Even with all the links I've posted, you still say my statement is wrong. You probably haven't read any of them. So typical of some AN members.

 

You believe what you want and follow the yellow brick road.

 

There are no tax dodgers, no one's under suspicion and nobody's ever been prosecuted for tax evasion. The Russian oligarchs own their super yachts through shell companies because they love doing paperwork and gold hangs from trees in the dingly dell.

 

I'm happy that I've made no false claims.

[MangoKorat]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why?  For credibility, of course.  If you could, you would and, as you made the claim originally, the onus is on you to justify it.

You asked for evidence, I've given you it.  If you can't be bothered to read it, that's your problem.  End of this ridiculous chat.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I'm happy that I've made no false claims.

You're happy that you've made no false guesses.  I'm "happy" that you cannot back up your claims with any specifics about "the rich who consistently pay little or no tax".

[MangoKorat]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You're happy that you've made no false guesses.  I'm "happy" that you cannot back up your claims with any specifics about "the rich who consistently pay little or no tax".

How many bloody links do you want for christ's sake?

 

Do you think that HMRC employ specialist fraud/tax investigators for a laugh?

Edited June 11 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

6 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Do you think that HMRC employ specialist fraud/tax investigators for a laugh?

1500 of them apparently.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/criminal-investigation/criminal-investigation

[KhunHeineken]

52 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why?  For credibility, of course.  If you could, you would and, as you made the claim originally, the onus is on you to justify it.

I called on you to counter the claim. 

 

Still waiting. 

[KhunHeineken]

37 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Even with all the links I've posted, you still say my statement is wrong. You probably haven't read any of them. So typical of some AN members.

 

You believe what you want and follow the yellow brick road.

Well said.

 

That's why I ask for counter links.  I'm always happy to gather information.  Rarely are they posted.  Sometimes they are, and there is a decent discussion, but mostly that never happens. 

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Well said.

 

That's why I ask for counter links.  I'm always happy to gather information.  Rarely are they posted.  Sometimes they are, and there is a decent discussion, but mostly that never happens. 

Yes, I find it incredible that he continues his line after I posted several links, some to specific cases and convictions. I don't invent knowledge of tax evasion, it comes from years of seeing TV news reports and like many  of us, its common knowledge.  I do though, know of one person personally and referred to that as an addition to a post.  That person never got caught for what he did so there is no documented evidence but one only has to search google to find many examples of people that have been prosecuted, jailed or remain under investigation.

 

There are perhaps 5 or 6 other posters on here who seem to look for people posting something and then pouncing on it and demanding evidence. When you provide evidence, they argue with it.  In future I will refuse to do so, I have more to do than waste me time on pedants.

 

One guy recently asked me to provide evidence that airlines have to pay compensation in the event of accidents. In that case we were discussing the Singapore Airlines emergency landing at Bangkok.

 

Given today's news the Singapore Airlines have indeed announced a compensation package, he's ended up with egg on his face.

[mania]

On 6/9/2024 at 3:56 AM, save the frogs said:

Tax system seems fair enough to me. It's the ones making over 60K paying a lot of tax ... and so what? How much do you need to horde?

That is 60k Baht not USD right? If so that is $1633 USD....I need to horde much more 😉 

 

Quote

Each spouse is entitled to a personal allowance of THB 60,000. This allowance is deducted from the individual's taxable income, reducing the overall tax liability. It is important to note that the personal allowance is only applicable if the spouse does not file a separate tax return.

 

[4MyEgo]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:41 PM, jayboy said:

 

What is overlooked is the pressure from overseas banks for expats resident in Thailand to obtain a TIN with the threat initially muffled and then explicit that if one doesn't, then one will lose the account.My situation and I imagine the same for many is that I cannot function without an overseas account.I batted my bank off for years but finally I got a TIN.This has no impact on whether I file a return or not.

 

I won't comply simply because I am not required to have a TIN, no more than a child at school is not required to have one, simply because they do not have an assessable income, the same as me.

 

Fortunately for me, I have another account with an address back home for the banks records, why, so I don't pay withholding tax, no, so if ever I get cancelled by the 2nd bank, I have the other account.

 

Banks are just that, banks, and governments putting controls on them to keep their slaves in check, doesn't go down well with me, as a bank should be there to deposit and withdraw funds, and if they feel their is suspicious activity going on, then they can report it to the government. 

 

I don't believe in the BS façade of the money laundering Krap, each to their own, I will see what comes of this and if they cancel me out, well I will just continue using my other account.

 

As for the withholding tax not being paid, I will address that issue when and if it arises 🙂

 

[4MyEgo]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:24 PM, Sticky Rice Balls said:

could have fooled me by your clickbait Header....is it safe to come out from under the bed yet??????

 

Do please elaborate.........if you can't then I will take it that you are a fool indeed.

[4MyEgo]

On 6/11/2024 at 2:11 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

I never mentioned registration for a TIN, nor income here, I was referring to your apparent misunderstanding of residency for tax purposes, not your individual tax liability, read it slowly.  

 

Under section 41 of the Revenue Code an individual Thai citizen or foreigner who lives in Thailand for one or more periods totaling at least 180 days in any tax (calendar) year is, for tax purposes, deemed a resident of Thailand and subject to tax on all assessable income derived from sources within the country, ...

 

The way I read section 41 i.e. Thailand's tax code is as follows: "deemed a resident of Thailand and subject to tax on all assessable income derived from sources within the country.

 

I believe that I do not misunderstand what a resident of Thailand means, and the fact that I do not have an assessable income, means that I am not a resident for tax purposes, this Is very clear to me, I can't see how it is not for you, or anyone else.

 

One might say, I am splitting hairs, well if that is the case, so be it, it is what it is.

 

That's not to say that if I had an assessable income, I wouldn't be a resident for tax purposes, but until I derive an income, I am just a resident, am I not, and if asked any questions, e.g. are you a tax resident of Thailand, then I would have to reply, NO.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12 by 4MyEgo

[DrPhibes]

On 6/11/2024 at 8:39 AM, KhunHeineken said:

I'm not American, but if what some members say is true, and that is, Buffet has stated he pays less tax than his secretary, can you elaborate on your post? 

 

I have no doubt his various companies pay tax, but, can you post a link showing the "huge"tax HE pays? 

 

 

Warren paid $24million in taxes between 2014 and 2018.  A couple of the reasons his tax is so low is his wealth is in stock that does not pay dividends and has increased in value tremendously.  He also is donating a good chunk of his wealth to charity each year which is a tax deduction on his US tax return.  He has a lot of wealth but not that much income relative to his wealth.

 

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/warren-buffett-defends-propublica-tax-rate-berkshire-hathaway-stock-dvidends-2021-6-1030504042

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, DrPhibes said:

Warren paid $24million in taxes between 2014 and 2018.  A couple of the reasons his tax is so low is his wealth is in stock that does not pay dividends and has increased in value tremendously.  He also is donating a good chunk of his wealth to charity each year which is a tax deduction on his US tax return.  He has a lot of wealth but not that much income relative to his wealth.

 

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/warren-buffett-defends-propublica-tax-rate-berkshire-hathaway-stock-dvidends-2021-6-1030504042

I found this.

 

DrPhibes and DrPhelps is similar.  Are we among youtube greatness on this thread? 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/11/2024 at 5:51 PM, MangoKorat said:

When you provide evidence, they argue with it. 

I have no problem debating it, if they can post a link that counters the information in any link I may post.  It happens occasionally, and then you have research more for the facts / truth, but most of the time they don't provide any links to support their argument.  It goes to credibility.    

[KhunHeineken]

One for the Aussies.  At the time, Australia's richest man, Kerry Packer, paid something like, $1 tax.  They held a senate inquiry about it and he gave it to them with both barrels.   

 

Famous and funny words, and true of every government around the world, even in 2024.

 

If you are not Australian, it only goes for 43 seconds. Check it out.  He sums up the sentiment of every tax payer around the world. 

 

Edited June 14 by KhunHeineken