Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[JimGant]

9 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Unless you have many millions in a Thai bank, your savings account interest is only going to be a few baht.

And if you're a Yank, not having a Thai TIN means you can make a one line tax credit entry on your US tax return -- to get back the Thai tax withheld.

[Danderman123]

26 minutes ago, JimGant said:

That some/many of us find fault with your analyses -- and report accordingly -- is not a "personal attack" upon you. That, in the absence of hard facts from the TRD, makes a back-and-forth discussion valuable, even when we can't come to a conclusive end. However, for someone to point out that you might be "wrong" seems to trigger a prickly response. Not helpful for meaningful discourse. Chill out.

The lack of hard facts as late as November makes it less plausible that anything will happen in 2025.

 

In the Real World, wealthy Thais need to plan tax strategies well in advance, and 2024 is just about gone with no chance to plan anything.

 

My opinion is best case, the RD issues actual tax preparation information in 2025. Or maybe never.

[chiang mai]

34 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

And that is my rationale for not wanting to file a Thai tax return - once you file, then any Somchai in the RD can effectively empty your bank account.

 

Nothing you can do about it.

Paranoia personified 

[NoDisplayName]

29 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Unless you have many millions in a Thai bank, your savings account interest is only going to be a few baht.

 

If you have your 800K parked in a fixed account, currently at Bangkok Bank earning 1.6% interest, then you will have 12,800 baht annual interest with 1,920 baht tax withheld.

 

But what's your point?  You're earning interest, tax is being withheld from your account.  You want it back.  The comments regarding this are for those who have been denied a TIN because their local TRD staffer says they don't need one.

 

Even if it's only a hundred baht, it's a valid reason to file a return, thus a valid reason to demand a TIN.

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Paranoia personified 

It's called "risk management".

[BritManToo]

44 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

It doesn't matter if the tax stuff is only a paragraph, the "required to file a tax return" is new news.

It's actually just another rumour, there is no requirement for foreign retirees to file Thai tax returns.

[NoDisplayName]

30 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And if you're a Yank, not having a Thai TIN means you can make a one line tax credit entry on your US tax return -- to get back the Thai tax withheld.

 

No thanks.  You have to pay tax to get that credit refunded.  I'll keep my $60,000 tax-free US income instead.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

It's actually just another rumour, there is no requirement for foreign retirees to file Thai tax returns.

Great. We can just delete this topic.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Great. We can just delete this topic.

I would if I could!

[EVENKEEL]

16 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

If you have your 800K parked in a fixed account, currently at Bangkok Bank earning 1.6% interest, then you will have 12,800 baht annual interest with 1,920 baht tax withheld.

 

But what's your point?  You're earning interest, tax is being withheld from your account.  You want it back.  The comments regarding this are for those who have been denied a TIN because their local TRD staffer says they don't need one.

 

Even if it's only a hundred baht, it's a valid reason to file a return, thus a valid reason to demand a TIN.

So, in your world you would voluntarily enter the taxation system in Thailand to retrieve portion of 1920 baht????? You must be having a laff.  

[Talon]

11 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, in your world you would voluntarily enter the taxation system in Thailand to retrieve portion of 1920 baht????? You must be having a laff.  

 

Agree. I've never been concerned about it either.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 6/5/2024 at 3:17 PM, Djinn91 said:

Laughable and will only affect those companies with 1 billion baht in foreign income. (good luck enforcing it anyways)

 

Not sure why all the Farang get scared. they're not coming for you 200-800K baht...

 

Then again, all that mentioning of 'individuals'... Or, perhaps they're only targeting billionaires... 😆

[NoDisplayName]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, in your world you would voluntarily enter the taxation system in Thailand to retrieve portion of 1920 baht????? You must be having a laff.  

 

Not my decision.

 

The post was regarding foreign expats who wanted a TIN but were denied.  Claiming an interest withholding tax refund was a valid reason for a TIN.

 

Refers back to a post asking "And what do those people do who have been refused a TIN? "

 

Would it be worth the trouble of filing returns to get 2000 baht back?  Given the tears shed here when beer goes up a baht or two, I would guess yes.

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Not my decision.

 

The post was regarding foreign expats who wanted a TIN but were denied.  Claiming an interest withholding tax refund was a valid reason for a TIN.

 

Refers back to a post asking "And what do those people do who have been refused a TIN? "

 

Would it be worth the trouble of filing returns to get 2000 baht back?  Given the tears shed here when beer goes up a baht or two, I would guess yes.

Me? I would not try to get a 2000 baht refund. Hell no. 

[chiang mai]

On 11/1/2024 at 1:25 PM, Danderman123 said:

It's called "risk management".

Risk management would be to hold only a limited amount of money in a single account and to either spread the rest of your wealth around other accounts, both on and offshore. Holding all your funds in a single onshore account and then closing the account and withdrawing those funds, in advance of a tax event that is not entirely clear or confirmed, seems counter productive and futile given the difficulty of opening new accounts and the potential for a positive tax outcome.

[anchadian]

55% of Foreign Expats thought of moving out of Thailand in 2024 Majority will not file tax returns

 

A recent survey reveals that 55% of expats considered leaving Thailand in 2024 to avoid new tax liabilities. With Thailand’s new tax regime set for 2025, the majority indicate they may not file returns by the March 31 deadline, raising concerns for the government’s revenue targets.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/11/03/55-per-cent-of-foreign-expats-thought-of-moving-out-of-thailand-in-2024-majority-will-not-file-tax-returns/

[redwood1]

On 11/2/2024 at 9:24 AM, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Then again, all that mentioning of 'individuals'... Or, perhaps they're only targeting billionaires... 😆

 

Billionaires are the people who hardly pay any or no taxes at all....Its the little people with little money who they expect to pay the most taxes...

[jayboy]

30 minutes ago, anchadian said:

55% of Foreign Expats thought of moving out of Thailand in 2024 Majority will not file tax returns

 

A recent survey reveals that 55% of expats considered leaving Thailand in 2024 to avoid new tax liabilities. With Thailand’s new tax regime set for 2025, the majority indicate they may not file returns by the March 31 deadline, raising concerns for the government’s revenue targets.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/11/03/55-per-cent-of-foreign-expats-thought-of-moving-out-of-thailand-in-2024-majority-will-not-file-tax-returns/

 

Foolish article from the Thai Examiner based on a suspect sample and mixing up ill informed comment, some truth, some lies and in short not to be taken seriously.The author of this piece has form.

[TorquayFan]

I've tried to get a grip on this topic - but 73 pages . . .

 

Please can someone with a good grip on this subject, do a 'drop anchor' and give us an update, on this or a new thread, hopefully with some recent links.

 

I am 'Tax Resident' in Thailand and transfer about THB 700K p.a. to Thailand from the UK. My income is UK Statutory pension and a UK Private pension, on which I pay UK income tax.

 

My situation is fairly typical of many I guess. Please help if you can. Thanks

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

I've tried to get a grip on this topic - but 73 pages . . .

 

Please can someone with a good grip on this subject, do a 'drop anchor' and give us an update, on this or a new thread, hopefully with some recent links.

 

I am 'Tax Resident' in Thailand and transfer about THB 700K p.a. to Thailand from the UK. My income is UK Statutory pension and a UK Private pension, on which I pay UK income tax.

 

My situation is fairly typical of many I guess. Please help if you can. Thanks

You are eligible for deductions and allowances (known as TEDA)  within the Thai tax system of around 500k baht per year, possibly more based on family composition and financial instruments you buy in Thailand. That leaves you with 200k baht per year that is potentially assessable to tax here, depending on the source of your private pension (government/civil service related or not).  

 

I suggest you let us know answers to the following and that will zero in on your potential tax liability:

 

Source of UK private pension, government related or not?

Married, wife working or not?

Wife files own tax return?

children and their ages?

Thai purchased life of health insurance?

Children in higher education in Thailand?

Tax deductible investments in thailand?

 

In a worst case scenario I estimate approximately that 150k of your 200k liability might be taxed at 5% and 50k at 10% although any UK tax paid can possibly be used in the retaxing calculation.

 

[TorquayFan]

Thanks Chiang Mai.

 

"Source of UK private pension, government related or not? A UK private pension approx THB 600K . . . . + an OAP

Married, wife working or not? Partner 10 years not working.

Wife files own tax return? No

children and their ages? None in Thailand

Thai purchased life of health insurance? None

Children in higher education in Thailand? None

Tax deductible investments in thailand? None

 

So my position is quite simple really !

 

Any thoughts about this

 

 

Thanks again. ATB

 

[chiang mai]

53 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

Thanks Chiang Mai.

 

"Source of UK private pension, government related or not? A UK private pension approx THB 600K . . . . + an OAP

Married, wife working or not? Partner 10 years not working.

Wife files own tax return? No

children and their ages? None in Thailand

Thai purchased life of health insurance? None

Children in higher education in Thailand? None

Tax deductible investments in thailand? None

 

So my position is quite simple really !

 

Any thoughts about this

 

 

Thanks again. ATB

 

If others don't reply to this, I will do so when I return 

 

[TorquayFan]

Thanks CM, (other comments welcome of course).

[Rolo89]

2 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

 

Any thoughts about this

Just a youtuber discussing what we're all discussing here. Nothing new.

[TorquayFan]

Rolo - yes but what did you think about the advice he profers ?

[chiang mai]

5 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Thanks Chiang Mai.

 

"Source of UK private pension, government related or not? A UK private pension approx THB 600K . . . . + an OAP

Married, wife working or not? Partner 10 years not working.

Wife files own tax return? No

children and their ages? None in Thailand

Thai purchased life of health insurance? None

Children in higher education in Thailand? None

Tax deductible investments in thailand? None

 

So my position is quite simple really !

 

Any thoughts about this

 

 

Thanks again. ATB

 

I've only scanned the video you provided because it's very similar to many others that I have seen. This one tries to tell us that all the proposed tax changes are only assumed to be happening but in fact are only proposals. That is true in respect of two of the items, including negative income tax and also the tax on worldwide income, those two things are only proposals at this stage. 

 

But the important change that took place last year is the reinterpretation of the overseas remittance rules, that is not a proposal, that is a done deal and has been in effect since 1 January this year. It is that rule change that will force many foreigners in Thailand who are tax residents, and who remit income above a certain level to Thailand each year, to potentially file a tax return.

 

As far as your tax position is concerned:

 

It looks as though all your pension income is potentially assessable to Thai tax and that none of it is exempt by treaty (DTA). If indeed that is the case, the scenario I described earlier is what your liability to tax appears to be, unless you are able to invoke the DTA and use UK tax to offset Thai tax. I'm also assuming that no changes are announced between now and tax filing time next year, that could potentially alter your Thai tax liability.

 

 

 

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Any thoughts about this

Yeah, completely slams the Thaiexaminer for publishing hearsay. Especially the part about "all tax residents required to file a tax return." Now, maybe they heard a rumor about new tax return forms having line items to provide ALL remitted income, regardless of its assessability. In that case, maybe, then, all tax residents could be on tap to file a tax return, as TRD has  become interested in the income not being declared per DTA. Anyway, video was correct to slam the Thaiexaminer as being way too far ahead of this potential bow wave. And, logically and fiscally -- TRD doesn't have the resources, nor the need, to screen tax returns from all tax resident. Geez.

[JimGant]

11 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

It looks as though all your pension income is potentially assessable to Thai tax and that none of it is exempt by treaty (DTA).

 

Huh? My DTA gives the US exclusive taxation rights on my Air Force pension, and social securityl. You know that, of course -- so what am I missing here?

 

Woops, you were addressing a particular poster's situation. Sorry.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

 

Huh? My DTA gives the US exclusive taxation rights on my Air Force pension, and social securityl. You know that, of course -- so what am I missing here?

The member I responded to is British, he remits two UK pensions to Thailand. The member is not American, doesn't have a US Airforce pension and doesn't receive US SSc.

[JimGant]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The member I responded to is British

Right. Saw my error, and edited my response. Sorry.