Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[Rolo89]

These youtube people are best not to be given promotion, otherwise you're being a Mark for them. Just uninformed guesswork to hawk their services.

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

did read that some rich senior folks are not too happy either with these earlier changes to the tax laws.  They are more likely to be affected than the expats, But TIT so no one really knows anything actual yet.

Old folks generally are unhappier and complain more. Nothing to do all day. 

There are no changes to the tax laws and won't be, Imho. 

Pensioners are still expats. 

[Neeranam]

I really don't know why so many foreigners I know are worried about this scaremongering. Is it all done by accountancy firms, luring gullible readers to be customers?

Maybe it is the ones that haven't been here long and seen all the false rumours before. 

The removal of the loophole affect few foreigners, certainly not those retired guys. 

As for remittances, as a Thai, I can gift 20 million baht a year. I believe foreigners can do the same.

Thailand will not impose taxes on foreign remittances for foreigners because doing so would inadvertently grant foreigners tax rights that the government wants to avoid.

By taxing remittances, the Thai government could create a precedent that allows people to claim certain privileges, such as the ability to purchase property and access public services. This could lead to concerns about foreign ownership and influence within the local economy.

Additionally, remittances play a vital role in the livelihoods of many Thais, including my children, and taxing them could deter financial support from abroad, potentially destabilizing communities that rely on these funds.  The government will maintain a favorable environment for foreign money while safeguarding its own regulatory autonomy.

[mania]

17 hours ago, TheAppletons said:

The poster to whom you are replying lives in Georgia, USA.  

 

  He couldn't hack it in Thailand but logs on here occasionally to slag on those of us who live here.  

Actually he was replying to me & I have never been to Georgia 😉 I live in Northern Thailand at the moment ....Perhaps you think he is replying to someone else?

Edited October 21 by mania

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Maybe it is the ones that haven't been here long and seen all the false rumours before. 

To call a published rule of the TRD a rumour...

I have heard of a rumour that drivers should stop at a red light. Just a rumour.

 

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

By taxing remittances, the Thai government could create a precedent that allows people to claim certain privileges, such as the ability to purchase property and access public services.

Taxing people doesn't give the tax payer any rights at all, in any country. 

Example: Many slaves  foreign workers in the middle east pay taxes there - that doesn't give them any rights. 

 

[anrcaccount]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I really don't know why so many foreigners I know are worried about this scaremongering. Is it all done by accountancy firms, luring gullible readers to be customers?

Maybe it is the ones that haven't been here long and seen all the false rumours before. 

The removal of the loophole affect few foreigners, certainly not those retired guys. 

As for remittances, as a Thai, I can gift 20 million baht a year. I believe foreigners can do the same.

Thailand will not impose taxes on foreign remittances for foreigners because doing so would inadvertently grant foreigners tax rights that the government wants to avoid.

By taxing remittances, the Thai government could create a precedent that allows people to claim certain privileges, such as the ability to purchase property and access public services. This could lead to concerns about foreign ownership and influence within the local economy.

Additionally, remittances play a vital role in the livelihoods of many Thais, including my children, and taxing them could deter financial support from abroad, potentially destabilizing communities that rely on these funds.  The government will maintain a favorable environment for foreign money while safeguarding its own regulatory autonomy.

 

Very well said.

 

People on here get lost in theoretical debate, one of the things forgotten is actually what a "remittance" really is.

 

Essentially, it's a citizen ( in your example Thai) , working overseas and sending money back to their home country. 

 

We can argue black & blue about whether it includes a foreigner using an ATM , or their home country credit card, but these all pale in comparison to what a remittance 'really' is ( regardless of legal definition).

 

In a developing country like Thailand, remittances play a huge part in the economy.  

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

To call a published rule of the TRD a rumour...

I have heard of a rumour that drivers should stop at a red light. Just a rumour.

 

Taxing people doesn't give the tax payer any rights at all, in any country. 

Example: Many slaves  foreign workers in the middle east pay taxes there - that doesn't give them any rights. 

 

There is no new rule making foreigners even get a tax ID. All hogwash. 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Very well said.

 

People on here get lost in theoretical debate, one of the things forgotten is actually what a "remittance" really is.

 

Essentially, it's a citizen ( in your example Thai) , working overseas and sending money back to their home country. 

 

We can argue black & blue about whether it includes a foreigner using an ATM , or their home country credit card, but these all pale in comparison to what a remittance 'really' is ( regardless of legal definition).

 

In a developing country like Thailand, remittances play a huge part in the economy.  

 

 

Indeed, and my bank, SCB even facilitate remittances using cryptocurrencies. For now, I believe only between Japan and Thailand. 

I talked with a former Finance Minister, Kuhn Korn who said all currencies are going to be digitalized and are the future of remittances. 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Very well said.

 

People on here get lost in theoretical debate, one of the things forgotten is actually what a "remittance" really is.

 

Essentially, it's a citizen ( in your example Thai) , working overseas and sending money back to their home country. 

 

We can argue black & blue about whether it includes a foreigner using an ATM , or their home country credit card, but these all pale in comparison to what a remittance 'really' is ( regardless of legal definition).

 

In a developing country like Thailand, remittances play a huge part in the economy.  

 

 

A remittance is not determined by a persons nationality, a remittance has a very clear definition in the English language which is no different from the TRD interpretation.  

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

A remittance is not determined by a persons nationality, a remittance has a very clear definition in the English language which is no different from the TRD interpretation.  

For the record, we are talking cross-border remittance,  which can greatly impact both the sender's and receiver's economies

[chiang mai]

Just now, Neeranam said:

For the record, we are talking cross-border remittance,  which can greatly impact both the sender's and receiver's economies

Agreed, but it still doesn't change what I said about the definition being very well established and understood.

[skraach]

I normally file my tax myself through the Revenue Department's E-FILING webpage. However, this year, I noticed there is a form for reporting foreign income. Has this always been there or is it part of the new requirement? The description seems to indicate it is for foreigners, not Thai citizens.

 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

18 minutes ago, skraach said:

I normally file my tax myself through the Revenue Department's E-FILING webpage. However, this year, I noticed there is a form for reporting foreign income. Has this always been there or is it part of the new requirement? The description seems to indicate it is for foreigners, not Thai citizens.

 

 

 

 

@Guavaman may know.

[Yumthai]

53 minutes ago, skraach said:

The description seems to indicate it is for foreigners, not Thai citizens.

Yes indeed, and it is supposed we all read Thai fluently.

[Gknrd]

11 hours ago, chiang mai said:

As I recall you made your decision to leave Thailand a long time ago and are currently sitting in a Canadian wilderness somewhere!

I come back all the time. Never been to Canada.  Doesn't change anything. Definitely would never live there again.  Like the perks, but never bought into the LOS's nirvana.  And have a very nice home in my country I have kept all these years.  I live in a very rich and nice suburb by the way.  You want to support Thailand? Best of luck to ya. Not me.  I don't let feelings come into my financial decisions. Looking at Thailand as a retirement destination is laughable.  Really I guess it is a question of where you are from. I mean allot of countries make Thailand look like paradise I guess.   If from one of those countries a sewer would seem like paradise.

Edited October 21 by Gknrd

[Guavaman]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

@Guavaman may know.

Sorry, it appears that one needs a MyTax Account to enter the system to reach this webpage.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

Sorry, it appears that one needs a MyTax Account to enter the system to reach this webpage.

Thanks for responding, perhaps others can shed light.

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, skraach said:

The description seems to indicate it is for foreigners, not Thai citizens.

Indeed, the first one is 'form for expat's income'. 

Second part says ' form for foreigners income information'. 

 

Nothing about earnings earned abroad or remittance. 

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, the first one is 'form for expat's income'. 

Second part says ' form for foreigners income information'. 

 

Nothing about earnings earned abroad or remittance. 

Which is interesting, are they not interested in the Thai citizens foreign sourced income?

Or perhaps this is a special page for known foreigners and they kept it in Thai just to help us out as much as possible,

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

Which is interesting, are they not interested in the Thai citizens foreign sourced income?

Or perhaps this is a special page for known foreigners and they kept it in Thai just to help us out as much as possible,

There really isn't a change for Thais earning abroad, apart from they are going to be investigating large companies who formerly used the loophole to save millions in tax. 

 

Most foreigners who work here should be able to read Thai, or have an accountant to help. No change for them anyway. 

 

Retirees should stay under the radar, unlike one guy I know who foolishly went to the RD and volunteered his foreign pension. 

 

There are news sources spreading fear for readers and probably getting sponsored by lawyers and accountancy firms who are licking their lips in anticipation of all the newbie pensioners afraid of their own shadow in Thailand. 

 

 

[Rolo89]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Retirees should stay under the radar, unlike one guy I know who foolishly went to the RD and volunteered his foreign pension. 

When you say under the radar do you mean to not be open about worldwide income?

 

I'm going to volunteer my remitted money if complete a thai tax return (that's if I decide to stay over 180 days as I might just not and become a tax resident of nowhere) but I won't be handing over any details of my world wide income to them.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, Rolo89 said:

When you say under the radar do you mean to not be open about worldwide income?

Unless you are specifically told to get a Thai tax ID, by immigration for example, don't. 

[motdaeng]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Unless you are specifically told to get a Thai tax ID, by immigration for example, don't. 

 

as far as i know, the written TRD regulation makes it clear who needs to apply for a TIN and who needs to file taxes.

for now, i do recommend just wait and see ... you have until the end of march 2025 to submit the tax return ...

 

Edited October 22 by motdaeng
typo

[oldcpu]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Unless you are specifically told to get a Thai tax ID, by immigration for example, don't. 

 

And as I posted a few times already - a Thai tax ID is NOT so easy to get.   My wife tried (for me) and failed. 

 

Some months back she applied on line for the Tax ID.  That goes to a Bangkok office, and they forwarded my application to Phuket.  She received a phone call from an official working in the Phuket RD who asked for (1) confirmation I resided > 180 days in Phuket per calendar year, and (2) where was my income source, and (3) was I bringing this income into Thailand.

 

My wife replied (1) yes I resided > 180 days in Thailand per calendar year, and (2) my income source was foreign pensions from OUTSIDE of Thailand, and (3) I was not bringing money into Thailand at present, as I previously brought a lot in long before 1-Jan-2024. 

 

The official told her I did not need a tax ID as long as I was not bringing money into Thailand.

 

Now my view is that does not mean the situation won't change in the future, but that was what she was told by a Thai RD official.

 

The story actually doesn't 100% end there.

 

My wife asked some questions of the Phuket RD official, one question being she noted my Thai pink ID number was rejected as a tax-ID by the online tax forms. Why was that?  The Phuket RD official noted the Thai pink ID could only be used as a tax-ID in an on-line form AFTER it was activated.  Mine was not activated.  (and again he noted he saw no reason to activate mine).

 

Another question my wife asked was, given I am on an LTR visa, if I were to have brought for a tax year (ie tax reporting year) income into Thailand, would I on an LTR visa have to pay Thai tax on such income (if not covered by a DTA?).  The Phuket RD official noted they never heard of an LTR visa, and they would have to check on this and phone back.  .... That was many months ago.  They never phoned back.

 

Clearly the Phuket RD are in no hurry to assign Thai tax IDs to foreigners (at least not in my case).

 

 

[Neeranam]

26 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Clearly the Phuket RD are in no hurry to assign Thai tax IDs to foreigners (at least not in my case).

Indeed, thanks for the information. 

It would be a logistical nightmare to get all foreigners a Thai ID. Legally, all foreigners should have an alien certificate but the Amphur people would be overrun in Phuket so actually try to dissuade them from getting one, or the yellow housebook. 

The last thing they want is to be overworked by vest wearing Olav, Bert, Hank, Bruce, and Dmitry shouting at them in English. 

[Lorry]

Deleted

Edited October 22 by Lorry
Deleted

[Lorry]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Legally, all foreigners should have an alien certificate

https://thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/001-01-053

Seems only foreigners with PR are supposed to have it, that's not many people. 

Retirees are  just tourists,  they do not reside here in the  view of the Thai government.

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, Lorry said:

https://thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/001-01-053

Seems only foreigners with PR are supposed to have it, that's not many people. 

Retirees are  just tourists,  they do not reside here in the  view of the Thai government.

Here is the law. Like I said, they would rather Western foreigners didn't know this law as it would cause them too much work and only migrant workers are hassled about it. 

https://report.dopa.go.th/laws/document/2/215.pdf

 

Things were hunky dory until some farang lawyer in Udon upset the applecart and started demanding foreigners get a pink ID card, which is card reserved for migrant workers.  

 

 

[chiang mai]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, the first one is 'form for expat's income'. 

Second part says ' form for foreigners income information'. 

 

Nothing about earnings earned abroad or remittance. 

At this stage, TRD would only be interested remitted (not earned)  income so perhaps their English language usage is the issue here.

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

At this stage, TRD would only be interested remitted (not earned)  income so perhaps their English language usage is the issue here.

 

 

I wonder if other countries have tax information in foreign languages. 

I know the US doesn't tax Mexican expats on remittance.

I know the UK government has other languages but that is for British nationals of other ethnicities. 

Also, there, Thais can remit funds as they are considered a gift, much like Brits remitting to Thailand.