Information on Medical Malpractice

[OUAT41]

Please Help I have tried to reach out 3 Times and only get Customer service that is very kind and there are to elevate the complaint to the higher department but never get a reply . My wife had major surgery on May 16 in Bangkok and a flow up 7 days later mentioning to the doctor of issues with the procedure has now turned into having her admitted to Emergency here in AoNang Krabi  and doing emergency surgery for complications from the surgery at Hospital in Bangkok . Any Help is appreciated.  

[BigStar]

Later complications aren't necessarily the result of medical malpractice. Does the current doc agree with the malpractice assessment?

 

But there needs to be communication w/ the original doc, somehow.

[Sheryl]

First of all, there is no Medicare in Thailand so not sure why you include it in the title.

 

Secondly  the fact that she now needs emergency surgery for complications related to the first surgery does not in itself prove malpractice. With any surgery, some complications can occur, including delayed complications, without any fault on doctor's side.

 

The pertinent factors would include:

- what type of surgery, for what condition, using what surgical technique

- exactly what  problems/symptoms did she report to the doctor at her 7 day follow up and what did the doctor do/say in response?

- did the doctor specifically tell her it was safe now to travel by bus/plane a long distance from Bangkok?

 

You aren'f going to get this resolved through customer service. And of course you have to pay the other hospital now. IF (see above) there is reason to believe there was  a mistake/malpractice in the first hospitalization, what you would need to do is hire  a lawyer to send the hospital an official letter with copy to the Thai Medical Council outlining the damage done and its consequences (e.g. additional medical expenses and if applicable cost of longer stay in Thailand)  and threatening to sue if appropriate compensation is not forthcoming.  This will usually lead to a meeting with hospital administraton and, if you stand firm and your case is solid, often a negotiated financial settlement for not more than your actual incurred financial losses. May take time, and you'll have to pay the lawyer. You'd need detailed medical records as well as recepts from the Krabi hospital.

 

If you want an  opinion as to whether there may be a case for claiming malpractice, provide answers to the questions above, either in this thread or by PM to me . Note that  opinions anyone on this forum may give, are just personal opinions and have no legal validity,   but they may help you decide whether to take this matter any further.

 

 

 

 

[NORDO]

Malpractice does not exist in Thailand, neither does prostitution or corruption with in the Upper RTPF.

[nobodysfriend]

On 6/8/2024 at 11:05 AM, OUAT41 said:

Please Help I have tried to reach out 3 Times and only get Customer service that is very kind and there are to elevate the complaint to the higher department but never get a reply . My wife had major surgery on May 16 in Bangkok and a flow up 7 days later mentioning to the doctor of issues with the procedure has now turned into having her admitted to Emergency here in AoNang Krabi  and doing emergency surgery for complications from the surgery at Hospital in Bangkok . Any Help is appreciated.  

 

My wife had a tumor near the Uterus operated in " one of the world's best hospitals " in Chiang Mai .

 

As we later found out , they left about half of the tumor inside her body .

We paid a lot .

She had to have an emergency operation in a government hospital back in France , by doctors who were MUCH better than the ones in Chiang Mai . Also the equipment they had was much better ...

We did not pay a lot .

She is ok now , but " world class hospital " ? May be 3rd world ...

Private Hospitals here in Thailand are just ' money making machines ' .

Doctors here always want to ' operate ' , that is what brings in the money .

 

Edited June 10 by Sheryl
reference identifying theh ospital removed by Moderator - defamation laws

[save the frogs]

On 6/8/2024 at 12:05 AM, OUAT41 said:

Any Help is appreciated.  

I would ask the current surgeon a lot of questions and a very detailed explanation of what the issue is. 

Does the new surgeon think the previous surgeon made a mistake or are they just complications that arose?

Maybe no need to ask directly, but gather as much information as possible ... 

Edited June 10 by save the frogs

[bkk6060]

I have done a 180 on Thailand medical care.  I don't like to hear from a Doctor or Dentist " Oh, I don't know what to do". Or, being misdiagnosed or overdiagnosed.

I now just bite the bullet and fly back home for care or procedures.

[helloagain]

On 6/8/2024 at 11:05 AM, OUAT41 said:

Please Help I have tried to reach out 3 Times and only get Customer service that is very kind and there are to elevate the complaint to the higher department but never get a reply . My wife had major surgery on May 16 in Bangkok and a flow up 7 days later mentioning to the doctor of issues with the procedure has now turned into having her admitted to Emergency here in AoNang Krabi  and doing emergency surgery for complications from the surgery at Hospital in Bangkok . Any Help is appreciated.  

Get a lawyer and write to the directors.

[sghanchey]

On 6/8/2024 at 1:28 PM, Sheryl said:

First of all, there is no Medicare in Thailand so not sure why you include it in the title.

 

Secondly  the fact that she now needs emergency surgery for complications related to the first surgery does not in itself prove malpractice. With any surgery, some complications can occur, including delayed complications, without any fault on doctor's side.

 

The pertinent factors would include:

- what type of surgery, for what condition, using what surgical technique

- exactly what  problems/symptoms did she report to the doctor at her 7 day follow up and what did the doctor do/say in response?

- did the doctor specifically tell her it was safe now to travel by bus/plane a long distance from Bangkok?

 

You aren'f going to get this resolved through customer service. And of course you have to pay the other hospital now. IF (see above) there is reason to believe there was  a mistake/malpractice in the first hospitalization, what you would need to do is hire  a lawyer to send the hospital an official letter with copy to the Thai Medical Council outlining the damage done and its consequences (e.g. additional medical expenses and if applicable cost of longer stay in Thailand)  and threatening to sue if appropriate compensation is not forthcoming.  This will usually lead to a meeting with hospital administraton and, if you stand firm and your case is solid, often a negotiated financial settlement for not more than your actual incurred financial losses. May take time, and you'll have to pay the lawyer. You'd need detailed medical records as well as recepts from the Krabi hospital.

 

If you want an  opinion as to whether there may be a case for claiming malpractice, provide answers to the questions above, either in this thread or by PM to me . Note that  opinions anyone on this forum may give, are just personal opinions and have no legal validity,   but they may help you decide whether to take this matter any further.

 

 

 

 

Filing a complaint for malpractice in Thailand could lead to serious legal repercussions (as in slander), and you wouldn't have a prayer of a chance taking on "one of the world's best hospitals" (we are led to guess which one it is, but most will recognize it). They are connnected to powerful people and have a team of legal consultants on call. Forget it and move on. I hope your wife recovers soon. 

[sghanchey]

1 hour ago, helloagain said:

Get a lawyer and write to the directors.

I think the poster meant "medical malpractice" not Medicare. 

[Sheryl]

56 minutes ago, sghanchey said:

Filing a complaint for malpractice in Thailand could lead to serious legal repercussions (as in slander), and you wouldn't have a prayer of a chance taking on "one of the world's best hospitals" (we are led to guess which one it is, but most will recognize it). They are connnected to powerful people and have a team of legal consultants on call. Forget it and move on. I hope your wife recovers soon. 

Legal repercussions only if he makes public statements/accusations in the  media.

 

There is no legal repercussion to filing a law suit.

 

But in fact, that is not the first step, and one hopes to avoid that by reaching a settlement with hospital first. Going to court is a long, drawn out process that racks up legal fees.

 

People have done this with success but it requires a very strong case where the fault is obvious. At this point we have no information with which to even guess whether ior nto there is such a case here.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I would ask the current surgeon a lot of questions and a very detailed explanation of what the issue is. 

Does the new surgeon think the previous surgeon made a mistake or are they just complications that arose?

Maybe no need to ask directly, but gather as much information as possible ... 

Yes, gather as much information as possible (including full set of both original hospital and second hospital records) in a low key manner.

[jayboy]

Many years ago when hiso Thai girls often worked for a while at foreign company offices in Bangkok, I had a secretary - extremely wealthy Sino Thai family - who had medical malpractice issues with a major Bangkok hospital and in particular its anesthesia procedures which had left a relative in a coma after a routine surgical procedure.They weren't particularly looking for financial compensation, just some answers.Obviously I got all this second hand and don't remember all the details but I was surprised that a wealthy and well connected family got absolutely nowhere with the hospital.There was an internal investigation but I don't think it ever went to court.

 

However what I do remember is that there were plenty of witnesses to the anesthetist's litany of errors and that under the investigative interrogation all medical staff lied and kept on lying.They would not tell the truth about a colleague.Whether this was organized or just a cultural reflex, I don't know.

 

But since then I have always been aware that obtaining answers in Thailand on medical malpractice would be an uphill struggle.

[kingstonkid]

On 6/8/2024 at 11:05 AM, OUAT41 said:

Please Help I have tried to reach out 3 Times and only get Customer service that is very kind and there are to elevate the complaint to the higher department but never get a reply . My wife had major surgery on May 16 in Bangkok and a flow up 7 days later mentioning to the doctor of issues with the procedure has now turned into having her admitted to Emergency here in AoNang Krabi  and doing emergency surgery for complications from the surgery at Hospital in Bangkok . Any Help is appreciated.  

 

 

I think Sheryl has the best advice, but I would also find a lawyer and have him look after questions to the doctor in the hospital.  Anything the doctor tells you he can deny later.  Anything he tells a lawyer is a little harder to deny.  Also, it will b\get resolved quicker

 

Hope she gets better

[SantiSuk]

"Information on Medicare Malpractice on the so call one of the best Hospital in the World"

 

Three (nay four glitches) glitches of English construction in one short title! Sack the proof reader.

 

 

[Sheryl]

35 minutes ago, SantiSuk said:

"Information on Medicare Malpractice on the so call one of the best Hospital in the World"

 

Three (nay four glitches) glitches of English construction in one short title! Sack the proof reader.

 

 

Threads are not proof read. They go through exactly as posted.

 

I have now edited the title. Both to remove typos and also to remove allusions to the hospital (defamation issue)

[Sheryl]

To those interested, I have had private exchanges with the OP and now know the details.

 

It appears that in the course of surgery, another (non-targeted)  body organ was significantly damaged. And that at 7 day follow up relevant symptoms were reported to the surgeon but shrugged off.

 

I think he does have a case.

 

If any one has a recommendation for a Bangkok based lawyer with experience in medical malpractice cases , please share that info either by posting here or in PM to the OP.

[save the frogs]

some info about medical malpractice:

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/litigation/medical-malpractice-in-thailand.php

[cardinalblue]

Medical malpractice is determined by doctors and lawyers not by patients, family or people with an opinion 

 

there are 4 parties involved…the patient and their medical legal lawyer/firm, the attending hospital/medical staff , the second or follow up hospital/medical staff and finally regulatory body in thailand that is responsible for investigating and monitoring bad outcomes and procedures when in question…participant 4 can also dole out penalties like removing licenses and privileges etc…civil and criminal penalties will be handled by the court system if the case is brought to court by the number 2 party 

 

I don’t know how thailand works but you need to play the game and follow proper protocol in whatever system is in place…don’t expect it to be like the west where one has more transparency and more checks and balances in place  (that’s my assumption based on working in a western system where lawsuits are frequent and court cases/settlements are abundant 

 

best thing to do is to hire the best medical legal firm and do your homework…let them handle the whole process..and you can be an active participant by monitoring their behavior professionally, medically and legally via a 2nd law firm if need be…be sure any law firm one hires has medical expertise on staff or via contract…

 

culture leads to differences and how things are processed/done so patience on your part will be greatly needed along with your determination if one (you and law firm) feels a wrong has been committed 

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, cardinalblue said:

 

there are 4 parties involved…the patient and their medical legal lawyer/firm, the attending hospital/medical staff , the second or follow up hospital/medical staff and finally regulatory body in thailand that is responsible for investigating and monitoring bad outcomes and procedures when in question…participant 4 can also dole out penalties like removing licenses and privileges etc…

 

 

Such a regulatory body does not really exist in Thailand, unfortunately.

 

There is no routine monitoring of bad outcomes.  There is a Medical Council which can -- but almost never does -- suspend licenses, and in theory it is supposed to investigate complaints sent to it but this tends not to happen much in practice.

 

For which reason there have been bids by the Office of the Consumer Protection Board to get involved in regulation of private hospitals but so far with limited success.

 

 

[cardinalblue]

If there is a structure in place for public hospitals, why not expand it to include private sector and have it funded by the private hospitals and set up as a separate entity?

 

What you are describing  is an industry  w/o checks and balances thus hide/cover up mistakes and errors…but more importantly, never learns from errors to prevent future mistakes…bottom line….should/must be held independently accountable by a third party…self policing doesn’t work effectively for health, safety, environment, food, pharmaceutical, domestic animal/wildlife and nuclear to just name a few…

[Letseng]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

To those interested, I have had private exchanges with the OP and now know the details.

 

It appears that in the course of surgery, another (non-targeted)  body organ was significantly damaged. And that at 7 day follow up relevant symptoms were reported to the surgeon but shrugged off.

 

I think he does have a case.

 

If any one has a recommendation for a Bangkok based lawyer with experience in medical malpractice cases , please share that info either by posting here or in PM to the OP.

I don't know which hospital it is. The one on Soi 3 did video the procedure my husband had done ( just a hernia). If it is the same hospital, video evidence shld be available. I asume videos are done for a reason. 

[John49]

All medical procedures involve risk – that famous statement.

My (limited) experience is that medical procedures in Thailand involves greater risk than those done in your home country (or western country). This is after dental work (mixed outcomes, mostly good), bone marrow biopsy with local anaesthetic (amazingly positive experience at a public hospital), and one miserable extended hospital stay at a private hospital in Bangkok.

 

Of course, this medical procedure risk can be reduced by sharing experiences on this forum, plus valuable insights from Sheryl.

 

I have had two identical medical procedures for rectal prolapse caused by a previously incurable gut infection.

 

The first procedure in Australia was basically a simple day procedure with one overnight stay – effortless, seamless, in other words - no issues.

 

The second (same) procedure in Thailand was the complete opposite and involved a 72 hour miserable experience at one of Bangkok’s most expensive hospitals – as recorded in another thread.

I went ahead having it done in Thailand, as I thought that for a simple routine procedure, nothing could go wrong.

 

[The negatives included a last minute rush around the hospital for ultrasounds to check heart, and legs for potential DVT, this after taking purgatives.

Failure to clean bowel prior to surgery (included multiple stool photos sent to surgeon in OR).

Subsequently, overdosed with antibiotics leading to endless in-shower diarrhoea for many hours day after procedure.

Most worrying of all, BP of 200/140 (?) during evening after surgery for nearly two hours before a nurse arrived with tablet medication.

 

My bowel operation itself appears successful - up to a point, (I think I’ve been ‘overtightened’ but that may have been done strategically due to elderly muscle weakness).

I will get a second opinion (camera investigation) when next overseas.

Clearly, matters outside the OR were disorganised and stressful, with very poor coordination.

BTW, I requested that catheter not be used (not needed in Australia) – agreed but then a catheter was used.

I also asked if they would use an intermittent pneumatic compression (IPC) device (anti - DVT) on my lower limbs (as used in Australia) – anaesthetist said yes, of course – they were not used.

In Australia, they used a twilight anaesthesia, in Bangkok they used a major operation anaesthesia.]

 

My very recent biopsy of prostate at a large private hospital in Australia made me realise how it should be done.

Long check list prior to medical procedure, constant monitoring, etc. - with nothing left to chance.

Again, another effortless, seamless medical procedure with a quick recovery.

 

Here in Thailand, only limited checks with a few bullet points, a lot left to chance, or assumed.

To say nothing of what actually happens in the OR while you are asleep on the table.

 

BTW I did complain to my surgeon before leaving the hospital - about the disorganised, stressful, and poorly coordinated aspects of the procedure. He apologised and said he would pass on my concerns “to his board”.

[PPMMUU]

On 6/8/2024 at 1:45 PM, NORDO said:

Malpractice does not exist in Thailand, neither does prostitution or corruption with in the Upper RTPF.

Malpractice does exist in Thailand and there are a lot of it. It’s just that complications can arises even without malpractice.