Cost of having a house built?

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, charleskerins said:

Do they put crushed stone under the concrete?  I was thinking 12.5 cm of crete and 4 inches of stone  -wire mesh?  Also in the mountains what do they do large water tank i'm guessing ?  For sewer do they have what we would call tile fields (seepage beds)
America  ?   Or do they install holding tank and pump it out every so often?  

Stone, and I had 15 cm under the living part, and 20 in the garage and of course wire mesh. Did not trust them with 7cm as they suggested, and 10 should be minimum. If I knew better, I would have also used a vapour barrier, which is not normal, or at least for those village workers I used. 

For the holding tanks, I have two, one for the "solids" and one for the overflow water, and pump it out every two years I think we have done so far. The solids doesn't build up that quick as in colder climates. If I do not remember wrong, we used 4 concrete rings instead of 3 as suggested.

 

 

Many things I would had done different, but afterall thinking of what we got for the money, Im very pleased now. It was a total nightmare when we building, especially with my knownledge, and their way of changing the plans as it went. Always short cuts. Could not leave for one day, and you got a total different solution than you had agreed. 

 

But, at the end, the crew worked fast, and got things done. I always took measure for reinforcement where I saw there were lack of quality materials, or quality work. 

 

Just a few samples form the construction site, this is the garage and car port being done, inside and outside kitchen, and one of the bathroooms. Is it a pretty house, no, but it is functional and I can fine live there for the price we paid. 

 

Edited June 14 by Hummin

[charleskerins]

42 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Stone, and I had 15 cm under the living part, and 20 in the garage and of course wire mesh. Did not trust them with 7cm as they suggested, and 10 should be minimum. If I knew better, I would have also used a vapour barrier, which is not normal, or at least for those village workers I used. 

For the holding tanks, I have two, one for the "solids" and one for the overflow water, and pump it out every two years I think we have done so far. The solids doesn't build up that quick as in colder climates. If I do not remember wrong, we used 4 concrete rings instead of 3 as suggested.

 

 

Many things I would had done different, but afterall thinking of what we got for the money, Im very pleased now. It was a total nightmare when we building, especially with my knownledge, and their way of changing the plans as it went. Always short cuts. Could not leave for one day, and you got a total different solution than you had agreed. 

 

But, at the end, the crew worked fast, and got things done. I always took measure for reinforcement where I saw there were lack of quality materials, or quality work. 

 

Just a few samples form the construction site, this is the garage and car port being done, inside and outside kitchen, and one of the bathroooms. Is it a pretty house, no, but it is functional and I can fine live there for the price we paid. 

 

Third photo why all the rebar?    outdoor kitchen very nice    what did that run you?   So Im guessing the concrete rings go on top of one another and that is your holding tank for sewage  kind of like a big manhole?

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

Third photo why all the rebar?    outdoor kitchen very nice    what did that run you?   So Im guessing the concrete rings go on top of one another and that is your holding tank for sewage  kind of like a big manhole?

This is on the end of the land before rice field, so I wanted to be sure it would not start to sink because of the weight on the edge there. 

 

Yes the rings goes on top of each other like a manhole, but not sealed off at the bottom

Edited June 14 by Hummin

[charleskerins]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

This is on the end of the land before rice field, so I wanted to be sure it would not start to sink because of the weight on the edge there. 

ok, so your sewage system is akin to an American septic tank and then drain field except your second tank takes the place of the drain field   i just read your response so the bottom of the two tanks is open???

Edited June 14 by charleskerins
nm

[Hummin]

11 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

ok, so your sewage system is akin to an American septic tank and then drain field except your second tank takes the place of the drain field   i just read your response so the bottom of the two tanks is open???

Total price for 288m2 housing, balconies about 1,5 mill include almost 4 rai land

 

We also built two water stations, dog kennel, sala and the dikes as well drive ways, electric poles and wiring 300m, so total everything hard to say. 1,8 maybe

 

This was just right before the prices started to peak during covid

Edited June 14 by Hummin

[Kinnock]

We could have built a decent house for 2 million THB, which was the original budget, not including the land.

 

We bought some land a few years ago in Bangsaen, near the sea.  It had an old house on the plot - so had water, drainage, power and even a deep well.  The idea was to demolish the old house and build a small retirement home using monthly income while I was still working ... so zero debt.

 

I moved to a job overseas during the early stages of the project, so the Missus worked with the architect and builder .... both trusted friends.  They did a great job, and the house is amazing ..... but the project creep was epic!

 

Vast walk-in dressing room, 3 ensuites each bigger than my condo in Bangkok.  A fully-glazed guest lounge and self-contained guest suite on the ground floor, plus one of THREE fully equipped kitchens (one outside, two inside).  A vast lounge and bar on the upper floor (that we never use), then two huge master bedrooms of Saddam Hussein palace proportions.

 

The builder bought all the old hardwood from a traditional shop house that was being demolished - so we have wonderful, restored timber shutters and windows.  I love the place .... but it was not what the 'customer' ordered 😄

 

It was still funded from monthly income over a 3 year build, but final budget is 'not going to tell you' - according to the Wife.

 

So beware of wife-induced project creep 😅.

 

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Aren't there supposed to be 'ties' between inner and outer wall?

Yes, where there is no fixing or support between inner and outer walls, as you get in UK buildings.

In my house the inner and outer walls are tied by the pillars, window frames and door frames. Unfortunately the concrete beams do give a bit of heat transfer but the overall benefit and absense of pillars inside the house was worth the 900K it cost to build. 

One of the biggest problems with Thai houses is inadequate foundations, even the best made walls have difficulty surviving subsidence.

[charleskerins]

On 6/14/2024 at 1:40 PM, Hummin said:

Total price for 288m2 housing, balconies about 1,5 mill include almost 4 rai land

 

We also built two water stations, dog kennel, sala and the dikes as well drive ways, electric poles and wiring 300m, so total everything hard to say. 1,8 maybe

 

This was just right before the prices started to peak during covid

do you have vent pipe ?  Ptraps for the drains?

[proton]

On 6/13/2024 at 1:41 PM, stratocaster said:

My wife who is a house builder in Thailand recommends that you never build a roof in Thailand that has valleys. Every valley is a source of a leak. Hips are bad enough due to the ridges cracking over time etc. Look at the roof immediately above the entrance steps. You have a huge rainwater runoff from the roof to the left that lands on another roof then flows downward to the left to a solid wall. There looks like some sort of gutter system to catch the runoff. Remember in Thailand rain falls horizontally most times, not vertical so plan your roof accordingly. 

 

Spot on with this roof advise. SIL built what looked like a superior built house in Surin but the roof has been a constant problem due to this different roof levels. Leaks and ruining ceilings, spent nearly 100k last month getting it sorted out. 

[motdaeng]

20 hours ago, proton said:

 

Spot on with this roof advise. SIL built what looked like a superior built house in Surin but the roof has been a constant problem due to this different roof levels. Leaks and ruining ceilings, spent nearly 100k last month getting it sorted out. 

 

... getting it sorted out : in thailand, that means a temporary solution, like using a lot of silicone, etc.

a fixed roof will leak again, don't worry!

 

and, most roofs in thailand leak sooner or later. any roof with a lot of hips and valleys will leak for sure ...

[Njoku]

On 6/13/2024 at 1:41 PM, stratocaster said:

My wife who is a house builder in Thailand recommends that you never build a roof in Thailand that has valleys. Every valley is a source of a leak. Hips are bad enough due to the ridges cracking over time etc. Look at the roof immediately above the entrance steps. You have a huge rainwater runoff from the roof to the left that lands on another roof then flows downward to the left to a solid wall. There looks like some sort of gutter system to catch the runoff. Remember in Thailand rain falls horizontally most times, not vertical so plan your roof accordingly. 

Your wife needs to get up on the roof as there laying it, to check that its done correctly, yes we all heard about Thai standards but a build is only as good as the person supervising it, to say dont use valleys, take a trip down south to Australia and 95% of all houses have at least one valley on there roof, common is 3 to 5...never had a roof leak on any jobs I worked on bar one, the reason for that was a 15m by 6m roof was emptying on to the lower roof which just couldn't handle the mount of water, we redirected the downpipe to another point problem solved, by the way I didnt make decisions just fixed the issues as I wasn't the builder on that job. 

[Njoku]

On 6/13/2024 at 4:44 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

Next thing you tell us is a car is just a car, maybe the Benz looks better than the Kia, but otherwise they are the same. No! They are not the same. There are huge differences for cars, houses and basically anything else. And often you get what you pay for.

No he's right the basic materials in a house are the same if its 50sq m cheapie or a 350sq m pool side villa for a wealthy farang, its just concrete, lots and lots of concrete, wiring and plumbing is the same, but obviously size dictates costs, finishing is where the big bucks can come in.

 

Back in Australia around 35% of total cost off build is to lock up stage from there its plastering as we use timber frame with brick cladding, and all then finishing, finishing stage is the most costly and time consuming, ive worked on high end town houses in exclusive suburbs and run of the mill estate work out in the burbs, the base materials are all pretty much the same, its the Finnish is where the money gets spent. example, MDF doors, (MDF is paper like layers of manufactured board) the High end town houses used solid MDF 2340 by 820 wide doors that where hung then later taken down and high gloss enamelled, looked a million dollars, the average suburban estate build used 2040 by 820 pine framed hollowed with compressed MDF moulded or flush panels painted by the onsite painter....thats the difference... 

 

We are a lot more anal about footings etc in AU, I cringe when I see them fill building blocks with up to a meter of soil, but here they mainly do piles which in its self is very good, you can really spend the bucks on foundations back home of its on crap ground...but here....they seem to get away with the same type over and over. 

[OneMoreFarang]

Just now, Njoku said:

wiring and plumbing is the same

No, it's not.

It can be the same. But if anybody cares about quality, reliability, maintenance, etc. then he will not use cheap (small) cables, bad connectors, etc.

If that is not obvious to you then maybe you should look at some cheap and some professional good installations. There is a huge difference. 

[Njoku]

30 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, it's not.

It can be the same. But if anybody cares about quality, reliability, maintenance, etc. then he will not use cheap (small) cables, bad connectors, etc.

If that is not obvious to you then maybe you should look at some cheap and some professional good installations. There is a huge difference. 

I had a licence to run construction projects back in AU, had my own jobs, worked for other builders a few I was supervisor on site, and was a carpenter as well, think I know what im talking about, of course we are far more regulated and cant cut corners and get away with it there but here, well we are aware its another story, but being a doom and gloom merchant about everything Thailand building is a bit out of order, if people read on forums like this there aware of the pitfalls, comes down to who you hire to do your work so its up to you isn't it if you want a decent job.

 

I was living in BKK and would run down to Pattaya every so often to check on each stage of renovations on my condo, I didnt need to be here all the time, I knew when I needed to be here, yes they cut corners and yes I picked them up on it and yes sometimes you just need to turn a blind eye and sometimes you stand your ground, yes there was times where communication wasn't the best and yes because I had been in the industry know you have issues often and they can all be worked out eventually.

 

I didnt go "luxury" just your basic fararang style I was use to back home, I got a pretty good job over all, cant say anything negative really, there supervisors was easy to deal with there workers did need constant supervising and yes they cant think outside of a box, cant problem solve, a few times I watched them stumped one time over fitting off a stone top in the bathroom, they dont seem to think they need a pattern here, ho well the wall was out of square which screwed them, 15 min 4 guys starting and chatting with no solution coming from anyone of them, in the end one offered to fill with caulk 1cm to nothing off the wall...now if I had not been there but I did make it a point of being there during finishing stages they would have filled it...no mate cut this here throw that part away you can replace it another day then scribe this side to the wall...worked out fine. 

 

The thing here is electrical and plumbing that seems to be big issues you wont discover until you're living in the place, I suggest you do some research on those topics or hire someone who knows what there doing. 

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, Njoku said:

I had a licence to run construction projects back in AU, had my own jobs, worked for other builders a few I was supervisor on site, and was a carpenter as well, think I know what im talking about, of course we are far more regulated and cant cut corners and get away with it there but here, well we are aware its another story, but being a doom and gloom merchant about everything Thailand building is a bit out of order, if people read on forums like this there aware of the pitfalls, comes down to who you hire to do your work so its up to you isn't it if you want a decent job.

 

I was living in BKK and would run down to Pattaya every so often to check on each stage of renovations on my condo, I didnt need to be here all the time, I knew when I needed to be here, yes they cut corners and yes I picked them up on it and yes sometimes you just need to turn a blind eye and sometimes you stand your ground, yes there was times where communication wasn't the best and yes because I had been in the industry know you have issues often and they can all be worked out eventually.

 

I didnt go "luxury" just your basic fararang style I was use to back home, I got a pretty good job over all, cant say anything negative really, there supervisors was easy to deal with there workers did need constant supervising and yes they cant think outside of a box, cant problem solve, a few times I watched them stumped one time over fitting off a stone top in the bathroom, they dont seem to think they need a pattern here, ho well the wall was out of square which screwed them, 15 min 4 guys starting and chatting with no solution coming from anyone of them, in the end one offered to fill with caulk 1cm to nothing off the wall...now if I had not been there but I did make it a point of being there during finishing stages they would have filled it...no mate cut this here throw that part away you can replace it another day then scribe this side to the wall...worked out fine. 

 

The thing here is electrical and plumbing that seems to be big issues you wont discover until you're living in the place, I suggest you do some research on those topics or hire someone who knows what there doing. 

Well sumed up!

 

Still being there is worth it if you know something about construction. As he say, my experience with electricians and plumbers, if there is any, is not existing where we are! I will have our electric redone next year for 3. time

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Njoku said:

I had a licence to run construction projects back in AU, had my own jobs, worked for other builders a few I was supervisor on site, and was a carpenter as well, think I know what im talking about, of course we are far more regulated and cant cut corners and get away with it there but here, well we are aware its another story, but being a doom and gloom merchant about everything Thailand building is a bit out of order, if people read on forums like this there aware of the pitfalls, comes down to who you hire to do your work so its up to you isn't it if you want a decent job.

 

I was living in BKK and would run down to Pattaya every so often to check on each stage of renovations on my condo, I didnt need to be here all the time, I knew when I needed to be here, yes they cut corners and yes I picked them up on it and yes sometimes you just need to turn a blind eye and sometimes you stand your ground, yes there was times where communication wasn't the best and yes because I had been in the industry know you have issues often and they can all be worked out eventually.

 

I didnt go "luxury" just your basic fararang style I was use to back home, I got a pretty good job over all, cant say anything negative really, there supervisors was easy to deal with there workers did need constant supervising and yes they cant think outside of a box, cant problem solve, a few times I watched them stumped one time over fitting off a stone top in the bathroom, they dont seem to think they need a pattern here, ho well the wall was out of square which screwed them, 15 min 4 guys starting and chatting with no solution coming from anyone of them, in the end one offered to fill with caulk 1cm to nothing off the wall...now if I had not been there but I did make it a point of being there during finishing stages they would have filled it...no mate cut this here throw that part away you can replace it another day then scribe this side to the wall...worked out fine. 

 

The thing here is electrical and plumbing that seems to be big issues you wont discover until you're living in the place, I suggest you do some research on those topics or hire someone who knows what there doing. 

 

If you have someone who knows what he is doing and you can trust that person and he is doing his job and the supervision all the time, then all is fine. But how many people know such a person?

And that is exactly the problem. It is very difficult to find in Thailand someone competent. And obviously it is even more difficult to find such a person who you can trust and who is all the time checking that things are done right.

 

Just one example from my renovation: The drainage pipes from the ACs are in the walls, not on top of the wall. First, the AC guy didn't know where the drainage pipes should start at the AC units, because he didn't look in the manual where it was exactly described.

And then he needed a pipe from the middle of a wall to one corner. What did he do? He put a pipe just straight from the middle to that corner. Bad idea! It should be nearly horizontal, with a little slope, or vertically (for lots of reasons which I won't explain here). He didn't know. I had to explain it to him, and he did it again. If I wouldn't have looked, then all would be closed and hidden.

That is just one of many (possible) problems.

Many construction workers just don't know what quality work is - even the so-called good workers. 

Many possible future problems can be foreseen and addressed in the initial building process. But obviously only if someone knows how professionals do this and what problems could happen - not exactly something many Thais think about.

 

You mention one very important part at the beginning of your post. "of course we are far more regulated"

Because of the lack of regulations here it seems many just do what they want to do. And you can't tell them later: Why didn't you do it according to regulation x, y, z. Because those regulations don't exist.

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I will have our electric redone next year for 3. time

I did it all by myself the first time. It should be good for a long time. But just in case something should be changed, no problem, I have pipes in the walls and the cables in the pipes. It's easy to change anything if I want to.

[Njoku]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

If you have someone who knows what he is doing and you can trust that person and he is doing his job and the supervision all the time, then all is fine. But how many people know such a person?

And that is exactly the problem. It is very difficult to find in Thailand someone competent. And obviously it is even more difficult to find such a person who you can trust and who is all the time checking that things are done right.

 

Just one example from my renovation: The drainage pipes from the ACs are in the walls, not on top of the wall. First, the AC guy didn't know where the drainage pipes should start at the AC units, because he didn't look in the manual where it was exactly described.

And then he needed a pipe from the middle of a wall to one corner. What did he do? He put a pipe just straight from the middle to that corner. Bad idea! It should be nearly horizontal, with a little slope, or vertically (for lots of reasons which I won't explain here). He didn't know. I had to explain it to him, and he did it again. If I wouldn't have looked, then all would be closed and hidden.

That is just one of many (possible) problems.

Many construction workers just don't know what quality work is - even the so-called good workers. 

Many possible future problems can be foreseen and addressed in the initial building process. But obviously only if someone knows how professionals do this and what problems could happen - not exactly something many Thais think about.

 

You mention one very important part at the beginning of your post. "of course we are far more regulated"

Because of the lack of regulations here it seems many just do what they want to do. And you can't tell them later: Why didn't you do it according to regulation x, y, z. Because those regulations don't exist.

 

 

 

 

Word of advice to who that does not understand building, if you haven't a clue dont do it, if you really want it and can afford it hire a well known reputable company, there are a number of farang run building companies here but expect Western rates, if you're on a budget then do your research on each stage and dont winge if it goes tits up. Pretty sure you wont jump under the hood of your brand new BMW with an angle grinder when it breaks down so why would you build a house?

 

Dont worry we have shonky contractors and builders in AU too, that's why we need a  license to run jobs, the Building authority wants to make sure you have insurance and  assets in case you want to do a runner...

[Njoku]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I did it all by myself the first time. It should be good for a long time. But just in case something should be changed, no problem, I have pipes in the walls and the cables in the pipes. It's easy to change anything if I want to.

You thought out of the box, running cables through pipes...good one.

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I did it all by myself the first time. It should be good for a long time. But just in case something should be changed, no problem, I have pipes in the walls and the cables in the pipes. It's easy to change anything if I want to.

well the basics is no problem, and we have pipes in the walls, and everything should be ok, but still we have failures,and the biggest problem is to get propler grounding in such a dry area as us, and thats what we will do next now. Install proper grounding. 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:55 PM, Gottsy said:

Our idea is to demolish the hovel

Don't demolish, keep it for the in-laws, they'll be coming over regularly. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

well the basics is no problem, and we have pipes in the walls, and everything should be ok, but still we have failures,and the biggest problem is to get propler grounding in such a dry area as us, and thats what we will do next now. Install proper grounding. 

Is it really a problem?

Or is it well known how to do it, but it costs time and money?

I guess "digging deep" is part of solving that problem.

 

 

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is it really a problem?

Or is it well known how to do it, but it costs time and money?

I guess "digging deep" is part of solving that problem.

 

 

Exactly, this was one of the things I did not look in to, and to be true, when we built there was 1000 things to be on top of, and unfortunate the one who claimed to be an engineer and know everything, did not do what he promised after the first one failed, and we had everything redone. 

 

House Earthing ProceduresA licensed electrician will dig the pit first to bury the ground rod. The pit should be close to the house and about 3 metres deep. Then, he will put a layer of salt, charcoal, and sand and place the electrical earth stake vertically inside the pit

 

and I guees watering it would be ok to during the dry season

[OneMoreFarang]

Just now, Hummin said:

Exactly, this was one of the things I did not look in to, and to be true, when we built there was 1000 things to be on top of, and unfortunate the one who claimed to be an engineer and know everything, did not do what he promised after the first one failed, and we had everything redone. 

 

Yes, that is the big issue. Building a house, there are thousands of things which can go wrong. And many of them will go wrong when we don't monitor it closely or have someone we can trust who monitors if closely.

 

I made also one of those mistakes - ok, not just one.

The one mistake was that I somehow assumed that I don't have to explain to the builders that walls have to be straight and plumb. Somehow, in my naivety, I assumed that is obvious, even if we don't talk about it. It isn't. At least it isn't to the level which I assumed. It seems Thai builders, and probably not only Thai builders, think straight and plumb is good enough if it isn't so obvious that you see it right away.

 

The problem appears if we try to install i.e. kitchen cabinets on a wall. And suddenly we see that we have to do some shimming to get it right. 

 

 

 

[willi2006]

On 6/17/2024 at 2:58 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Just one example from my renovation: The drainage pipes from the ACs are in the walls, not on top of the wall. First, the AC guy didn't know where the drainage pipes should start at the AC units, because he didn't look in the manual where it was exactly described.

That's a good idea.

Are the cables and the pipes between inner and outer unit also in the wall?
Any references, drawings, pictures?

[paahlman]

On 6/13/2024 at 9:24 AM, MangoKorat said:

How long is a piece of string?  I could say 1.5 - 2 mil for a basic house and 3 - 4 mill for something better quality. However, a lot depends on the fittings you're going to put in it. Depending on what you want, the fittings can cost as much as the shell. I fitted a western kitchen and decent quality uPVC windows and doors - not much change from 600,000 for those alone and mine ain't a big house. Don't fit those c r a p chinese plastic windows.

 

Whatever you go for I recommend double skin walls with insulation between and don't forget the loft insulation - your house will be much cooler.

 

If you want a western kitchen, I can thoroughly recommend Kvik Kitchens, Bangkok - nice stuff and their fitters were very professional. They had no problems coming to my place which is 2.5 hours from Bangkok.

KVIK kitchen is recommendable when they do their 50% sales now and then.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, willi2006 said:

That's a good idea.

Are the cables and the pipes between inner and outer unit also in the wall?
Any references, drawings, pictures?

 

The following picture is from the mounting plate of one of my Daikin ACs. You see many important measurements stenciled on that plate.

In the manual are more information. But all this doesn't help if the AC guy thinks he knows everything and if he doesn't look at this information.

 

 

 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, paahlman said:

KVIK kitchen is recommendable when they do their 50% sales now and then.

A Kvik kitchen would had been 20% of all my investments in Isaan even on heavy discount. 

 

A kvik kitchen is the same cost as my well equipped gym, but I agree, if the right location, the best kitchen to buy is Kvik, and a good investment. 

 

But A remote location, and if intention is to maybe sell one day? 

 

Well, at least you got a great kitchen your wife most likely will not use, she prefer most likely an Thai traditional outside kitchen to make her food. 

 

My wife only use our inside kitchen for bakery. 

[steven100]

Standard 11 x 12m   132sqm -  3 bedroom Block with Zincalume roof ....  standard fittings ....    Approx  600,000  baht 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Standard 11 x 12m   132sqm -  3 bedroom Block with Zincalume roof ....  standard fittings ....    Approx  600,000  baht 

 

And is that the kind of house you want to live in?

Maybe it's only me, but I want to live in a place which I like and enjoy. I don't want to think every day: It's not what I really want, but at least it was cheap.