How dangerous is vehicle pollution around Bangkok ?

[DonniePeverley]

Today crossing the road in Silom, that dreaded black smoke emitting red bus pulled up right next to me. As i begin to cross the road i was hit by the black smoke. Straight down my nostrils it went. I mean really in 2024 these busses are still allowed on the roads? But the horror wasn't to end, as i get over half the road to intersection, another red bus comes roaring past in the other direction. Once again another blast of black smoke hits my face. 

 

Here's a stock photo of those busses - i'm sure you've seen them around.

 

 

Our condo as in a very busy area. I leave my condo and it's constant fumes. Not helped by the heat which seems to make the situation worst. With traffic sometimes at a standstill (with the dreaded 4 minute red light traffic lights) you are really getting hit by the exhaust fumes. 

 

I know we all go on about PM 2.5, and the burning of the crops. These measurements are usually taken on towers. I am talking about ground level fumes that hit you in the face. 

 

The belch from the exhaust is made worst, because some of these vehicles don't adhere to western levels of emissions. You have some 80's vehicles that are still emitting dangerous exhaust fumes.

 

I write this today, because i arrived back in Scotland to see family yesterday. For the first time in nearly a year i could take a deep breath. Whilst around my condo in Bangkok i am usually holding my breath or taking low level breaths. But here i could take a deep inhale and exhale. Clearly here with congestion charges, strong rules on vehicle emissions it's just a whole different feel.

 

This brings me to another point. Condo's here are build on main roads ! That is clearly the most attractive to buy here. Where as in the west if you built a luxury condo on the M1 Motorway people wouldn't touch it. But here you build a condo on the main road it's seen as an attractive feature. My previous condo had a view of not just one highway, but two ! The agent was telling me how great this was, as in 20 seconds i could be on expressway. I looked at her with sheer confusion, thinking of the horrific pollution. 

 

I have began to wear masks now and again. It's got to the point now i feel my sinus really struggling at night. With some sort of pain i get in my face. 

 

I am curious though, is there any research how dangerous this level of pollution is in Bangkok ?

 

Just some ramblings so forgive. 

Edited June 16 by DonniePeverley

[stoner]

7 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

Whilst around my condo in Bangkok i am usually holding my breath or taking low level breaths.

 

 

 

hold your breath. are we talking hours on end or ? and whats a low level breath. do you get closer to the pavement with your mouth ? or do you only open your mouth a teeny tiny bit and take a micro breath. :)

 

that last one probably helps a lot. 

 

get an aircon with a pm 2.5 filter for your room in the condo. wear a n95 mask while out on your bike or a taxi bike. if you drive a car they make a small usb plug in filter you can get. you will notice a huge difference. this pollution is life taking serious. thailand and south east asia is going to explode with cancer over the next 15 years.

 

every breath you take at street level in bkk is pretty toxic. mix in smog season with that and you are truly breathing poison. 

 

[KhunLA]

Diesel exhaust is link to heart & lung disease.  Not suspect ... linked.

 

(source)

 

So yes, very dangerous, and if exposed constantly, N95 mask at least.  I thought the thread was rhetorical, but you did ask with last-ish statement.

 

I'm amazed myself the fuel is still legal, and simply shows how powerful the fossil fuel industry is, in dictating govt policy.

Edited June 16 by KhunLA

[Tropicalevo]

To answer the heading - Very dangerous.

That is why many Thais (and folk in other Asian countries) have been wearing masks since before Covid.

[Angus55]

On 6/16/2024 at 8:06 AM, Tropicalevo said:

To answer the heading - Very dangerous.

That is why many Thais (and folk in other Asian countries) have been wearing masks since before Covid.

Foolishly , you might add. As the masks they wear have no protection against fumes. The majority of them wear masks as they are ashamed of how unattractive they are- as measured by social media standards which is what Asians are concerned about.

[brewsterbudgen]

Bangkok needs a Mayor like London's.

[kwilco]

On 6/16/2024 at 1:43 AM, DonniePeverley said:

Today crossing the road in Silom, that dreaded black smoke emitting red bus pulled up right next to me. As i begin to cross the road i was hit by the black smoke. Straight down my nostrils it went. I mean really in 2024 these busses are still allowed on the roads? But the horror wasn't to end, as i get over half the road to intersection, another red bus comes roaring past in the other direction. Once again another blast of black smoke hits my face. 

 

Here's a stock photo of those busses - i'm sure you've seen them around.

 

 

Our condo as in a very busy area. I leave my condo and it's constant fumes. Not helped by the heat which seems to make the situation worst. With traffic sometimes at a standstill (with the dreaded 4 minute red light traffic lights) you are really getting hit by the exhaust fumes. 

 

I know we all go on about PM 2.5, and the burning of the crops. These measurements are usually taken on towers. I am talking about ground level fumes that hit you in the face. 

 

The belch from the exhaust is made worst, because some of these vehicles don't adhere to western levels of emissions. You have some 80's vehicles that are still emitting dangerous exhaust fumes.

 

I write this today, because i arrived back in Scotland to see family yesterday. For the first time in nearly a year i could take a deep breath. Whilst around my condo in Bangkok i am usually holding my breath or taking low level breaths. But here i could take a deep inhale and exhale. Clearly here with congestion charges, strong rules on vehicle emissions it's just a whole different feel.

 

This brings me to another point. Condo's here are build on main roads ! That is clearly the most attractive to buy here. Where as in the west if you built a luxury condo on the M1 Motorway people wouldn't touch it. But here you build a condo on the main road it's seen as an attractive feature. My previous condo had a view of not just one highway, but two ! The agent was telling me how great this was, as in 20 seconds i could be on expressway. I looked at her with sheer confusion, thinking of the horrific pollution. 

 

I have began to wear masks now and again. It's got to the point now i feel my sinus really struggling at night. With some sort of pain i get in my face. 

 

I am curious though, is there any research how dangerous this level of pollution is in Bangkok ?

 

Just some ramblings so forgive. 

 

 

 

It's the pollution you can't see that is most dangerous - you need a radeon microscope to see PM2.5 particles

[kwilco]

Black smoke from diesel engines is primarily carbon, but it also contains trace amounts of unburned hydrocarbons: These are leftover fuel molecules that didn't combust completely. Sulfates: Primarily sulfuric acid, a byproduct of sulfur in the fuel.

Water vapor: This is a natural product of combustion. All this is harmful but the worst are the PM2.5  partcles which are small enough to go through the lungs and directly into the bloodstream.

[kwilco]

On 6/16/2024 at 2:06 AM, Tropicalevo said:

To answer the heading - Very dangerous.

That is why many Thais (and folk in other Asian countries) have been wearing masks since before Covid.

most masks are ineffective - you need at least N95 or similar to have any real protection.

[Lorry]

On 7/8/2024 at 6:11 PM, kwilco said:

 

 

 

It's the pollution you can't see that is most dangerous - you need a radeon microscope to see PM2.5 particles

Is there a correlation of visibility and level of PM 2.5?

 

Before I check PM 2.5 (looking at a meter or looking at aqicn.com) I usually just look out of the window, which has a very far view. I feel that the view out of the window usually gives me a good idea of today's air quality.

But during the last smog season, a couple of times the view appeared to be clear but aqicn had high PM2.5.

[Robert Paulson]

This time of year it’s not so bad.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

Is there a correlation of visibility and level of PM 2.5?

 

Before I check PM 2.5 (looking at a meter or looking at aqicn.com) I usually just look out of the window, which has a very far view. I feel that the view out of the window usually gives me a good idea of today's air quality.

But during the last smog season, a couple of times the view appeared to be clear but aqicn had high PM2.5.

2.5 levels can be unacceptably high without  a perceptible change in visibility levels.  The particles scatter light and increasingly cause haze. But air pollution is not just PM2 5 particles, it is a mix of various pollutants and that mix can vary from day to day..

Attempts to gauge pollution on personal observation can be wildly inaccurate.

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

This time of year it’s not so bad.

VEhicle pollution is a constant source in Bangkok - what changes is the weather - if it becomes calm (and cloudy) then the pollution gets trapped. THis can happen at any time of year. Further pollution and haze can occur if crop burning and other pollutants are blown over BKK and trapped there - crop burning is seasonal.

[Robert Paulson]

29 minutes ago, kwilco said:

VEhicle pollution is a constant source in Bangkok - what changes is the weather - if it becomes calm (and cloudy) then the pollution gets trapped. THis can happen at any time of year. Further pollution and haze can occur if crop burning and other pollutants are blown over BKK and trapped there - crop burning is seasonal.

Bro. When it rains air is usually pretty good in bangkok. You’re thinking way too mut

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

Bro. When it rains air is usually pretty good in bangkok. You’re thinking way too mut

Rain doesn't necessarily remove particulate pollution. Cloud cover and low wind allow it to build up.

you also need to bear in mind the mass of industrial estates in and around BKK especially to the South and East when the winds in that direction.

 

You think too little

Edited July 14 by kwilco

[Robert Paulson]

7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Rain doesn't necessarily remove particulate pollution. Cloud cover and low wind allow it to build up.

you also need to bear in mind the mass of industrial estates in and around BKK especially to the South and East when the winds in that direction.

 

You think too little

Bro. If it rains, the air is probably gonna be clear. Kinda like the sun is most likely gonna come up tomorrow. You’re not doing yourself any favors, turn your brain off. Enjoy the decent air (yes after the rain)

[kwilco]

22 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Bro. If it rains, the air is probably gonna be clear. Kinda like the sun is most likely gonna come up tomorrow. You’re not doing yourself any favors, turn your brain off. Enjoy the decent air (yes after the rain)

 

 

Although rain can sometimes help clear PM2.5 particles, variations in  wind and temperature can affect the efficiency of rain in removing PM2.5 particles from the air, and  it often doesn't completely remove them. A lot depends on the intensity and duration of the rainfall - Heavier and longer rainfall is more effective at removing PM2.5. Light drizzle which seldom has a significant impact.

 

Remember that the source of the pollution is continuing to produce particulates. Whereas larger particles are more likely to be captured by raindrops smaller ones can escape and get re-released into the atmosphere.

 

Some particles can be water-soluble and dissolve in rainwater, while others are hydrophobic and resist being washed away.

So, it’s true that overall, rain is generally beneficial for air quality, but it's not a guaranteed or 100% solution for eliminating PM2.5 pollution.

 

Edited July 14 by kwilco

[Robert Paulson]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

 

Although rain can sometimes help clear PM2.5 particles, variations in  wind and temperature can affect the efficiency of rain in removing PM2.5 particles from the air, and  it often doesn't completely remove them. A lot depends on the intensity and duration of the rainfall - Heavier and longer rainfall is more effective at removing PM2.5. Light drizzle which seldom has a significant impact.

 

Remember that the source of the pollution is continuing to produce particulates. Whereas larger particles are more likely to be captured by raindrops smaller ones can escape and get re-released into the atmosphere.

 

Some particles can be water-soluble and dissolve in rainwater, while others are hydrophobic and resist being washed away.

So, it’s true that overall, rain is generally beneficial for air quality, but it's not a guaranteed or 100% solution for eliminating PM2.5 pollution.

 

Nice story. Nobody cares bro

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

Nice story. Nobody cares bro

you aren't explaining yourself - just making baseless ad homs now. It doesn't contribute to the discussion at all. I don't think you are sufficiently informed on the topic to make a reasoned comment.

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

you aren't explaining yourself - just making baseless ad homs now. It doesn't contribute to the discussion at all. I don't think you are sufficiently informed on the topic to make a reasoned comment.

When it rains, the air is very likely good bro. There’s nothing to talk about. You’re over analyzing something that needs not be analyzed. Rain good. No rain bad. (For air quality). Don’t @ me bro it’s over

[kwilco]

15 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

When it rains, the air is very likely good bro. There’s nothing to talk about. You’re over analyzing something that needs not be analyzed. Rain good. No rain bad. (For air quality). Don’t @ me bro it’s over

You've only made one comment on this thread - it is not backed up by any reasoning and it was wrong - now you are just getting surly.

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

You've only made one comment on this thread - it is not backed up by any reasoning and it was wrong - now you are just getting surly.

I don’t need to back up the fact that rain clears the air. Everyone knows it already. It is literally a fact. 

[kwilco]

27 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

I don’t need to back up the fact that rain clears the air. Everyone knows it already. It is literally a fact. 

You know repeating something doesn't make it right.