Tax ID Number

[Bluetongue]

Does anybody know, is the tax file ID number given to farang the same as their pink ID card number given that I've learned off this forum that Thai citizens get the same number as their ID card. If so could you you use this number in advance of actually registering it with the Revenue Department?

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

Does anybody know, is the tax file ID number given to farang the same as their pink ID card number given that I've learned off this forum that Thai citizens get the same number as their ID card. If so could you you use this number in advance of actually registering it with the Revenue Department?

No, the Pink ID card number is not the tax TIN for foreigners, it is totally separate.

[Lorry]

For some foreigners it's the same number,  for some it's a completely different number. 

I have no idea why. 

Edited June 18 by Lorry

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

No, the Pink ID card number is not the tax TIN for foreigners, it is totally separate.

 

48 minutes ago, Lorry said:

For some foreigners it's the same number,  for some it's a completely different number. 

I have no idea why. 

This has been discussed before but unfortunately the search function for this forum software is not very useful.

 

If you get your Pink ID before getting your Thai tax ID.... that number becomes your tax ID.

 

If you get your tax ID first that of course will be your Thai tax ID.  If you subsequently get a Pink ID the number on it will differ from your tax ID.

 

I wouldn't bet my life on this info, but it is the best explanation for the experiences of several members (from the old thread) who have both a Pink ID and a Thai tax ID.

Edited June 18 by gamb00ler

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

 

This has been discussed before but unfortunately the search function for this forum software is not very useful.

 

If you get your Pink ID before getting your Thai tax ID.... that number becomes your tax ID.

 

If you get your tax ID first that of course will be your Thai tax ID.  If you subsequently get a Pink ID the number on it will differ from your tax ID.

 

I wouldn't bet my life on this info, but it is the best explanation for the experiences of several members (from the old thread) who have both a Pink ID and a Thai tax ID.

A friend got his pink ID one year before he got his TIN - different numbers. 

Maybe you get the same numbers if you show the tax office your pink card?

He didn't do that. 

[tuk75]

I have my pink id as TIN number, registered for a lot of years ago.

[fittobethaied]

16 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

 

This has been discussed before but unfortunately the search function for this forum software is not very useful.

 

If you get your Pink ID before getting your Thai tax ID.... that number becomes your tax ID.

 

If you get your tax ID first that of course will be your Thai tax ID.  If you subsequently get a Pink ID the number on it will differ from your tax ID.

 

I wouldn't bet my life on this info, but it is the best explanation for the experiences of several members (from the old thread) who have both a Pink ID and a Thai tax ID.

Exactly correct!

[4MyEgo]

Why don't we all rush out and get TIN's like good obedient willing tax payers and get nothing in return, especially when it's not mandatory.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Why don't we all rush out and get TIN's like good obedient willing tax payers and get nothing in return, especially when it's not mandatory.

 

 

At what point will YOU consider it is mandatory?

 

In Thai tax law, it is already past the point of being mandatory for many, thus far this year, because the law states a person will acquire a Thai TIN, within two months of exceeding the income threshold of 60k Baht. That means, well, you know what it means but perhaps you have a different slant on things.

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

At what point will YOU consider it is mandatory?

 

In Thai tax law, it is already past the point of being mandatory for many, thus far this year, because the law states a person will acquire a Thai TIN, within two months of exceeding the income threshold of 60k Baht.

To be clear, that's assessable income threshold. Many of us retirees have non-assessable income.

 

And, at this point, refers only to income remitted into Thailand.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

To be clear, that's assessable income threshold. Many of us retirees have non-assessable income.

 

And, at this point, refers only to income remitted into Thailand.

Yes indeed, I was not precise in what I wrote and merely presumed at this late stage in the game that most people would have understood that. I mean, many many people use the monthly income method to obtain visa extensions, most of those people are well over the limit already.

Edited June 19 by Mike Lister

[Expat68]

17 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

Does anybody know, is the tax file ID number given to farang the same as their pink ID card number given that I've learned off this forum that Thai citizens get the same number as their ID card. If so could you you use this number in advance of actually registering it with the Revenue Department?

I was issued with a tax id no. the first time I claimed back tax on my interest from the bank

[khunPer]

18 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

Does anybody know, is the tax file ID number given to farang the same as their pink ID card number given that I've learned off this forum that Thai citizens get the same number as their ID card. If so could you you use this number in advance of actually registering it with the Revenue Department?

It's the same number, but you need to register as income tax payer at the customs office (or similar tax office, if not the same as in the province where I live). You will get a small slip as proof of tax ID...

 

[perconrad]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Why don't we all rush out and get TIN's like good obedient willing tax payers and get nothing in return, especially when it's not mandatory.

 

 

 

For me it became mandatory, since my Danish bank asked me to inform them of my Thai Tax ID if I wanted to have bank accounts with them and two of my pension providers in Denmark also wanted my Thai tax ID.

 

I had the pink ID card before and the tax lady said my tax ID was the number on my pink card.

 

Two years ago I was called to the local tax office since they had received documents from the Danish tax office with my income and they would talk with me about my tax to be paid in Thailand of my Danish pensions, but when they found out that I paid 38 % in tax then they let me go and thought it was sad that I should pay so much in tax.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

At what point will YOU consider it is mandatory?

 

In Thai tax law, it is already past the point of being mandatory for many, thus far this year, because the law states a person will acquire a Thai TIN, within two months of exceeding the income threshold of 60k Baht. That means, well, you know what it means but perhaps you have a different slant on things.

 

As I do not derive an income from my overseas funds, I am not required to have a TIN, e.g. I am a resident as I am here for over 180 days, I am a tax resident when I am here over a 180 days and derive an income.

 

I believe that to be as straight forward as it can be.

 

All of the above said, when the legislation states that a resident, regardless whether they derive an income or not must have a TIN, then I suppose I will be forced to get one, however my interpretation of the legislation doesn't state that at the moment, although I could be wrong 😁

 

If you receive or remit assessable income in Thailand and reside in Thailand for 180 days or more, you need a Tax Identification Number (TIN).Oct 3, 2566 BE

Edited June 19 by 4MyEgo

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

As I do not derive an income from my overseas funds, I am not required to have a TIN, e.g. I am a resident as I am here for over 180 days, I am a tax resident when I am here over a 180 days and derive an income.

 

I believe that to be as straight forward as it can be.

 

All of the above said, when the legislation states that a resident, regardless whether they derive an income or not must have a TIN, then I suppose I will be forced to get one, however my interpretation of the legislation doesn't state that at the moment, although I could be wrong 😁

Great!

 

In which case, there is no need whatsoever for you to "rush out and get TIN's like good obedient willing tax payer", because whilst you may be tax resident, you don't meet the criteria.

[jesimps]

Last Monday I went to the Jomtien Tax Office to request a tax number and the lady there refused point blank to issue me with one. I had my wife explain to her all that i'd been reading on here about how foreigners staying long term had to be assessed for tax, but she wouldn't budge. Said that if I paid tax in my home country I didn't need a number, it was only for farang who worked here. I had a copy of my last P60 with me but didn't get the chance to present it. I did push her a little more but I left empty handed. Guess I'll be sitting back and keeping an eye on the news from here on in as a lot of others appear to be doing.

Edited June 19 by jesimps

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Great!

 

In which case, there is no need whatsoever for you to "rush out and get TIN's like good obedient willing tax payer", because whilst you may be tax resident, you don't meet the criteria.

 

As I don't meet the criteria, I prefer the title "resident" LOL

 

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/tax-identification-number-thailand/#:~:text=If you receive or remit,Tax Identification Number (TIN).

[Doctor Tom]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Why don't we all rush out and get TIN's like good obedient willing tax payers and get nothing in return, especially when it's not mandatory.

 

 

Turkeys running to the abattoir saying, please kill me. I have never read such a bunch of naïve posts, ever. 

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Turkeys running to the abattoir saying, please kill me. I have never read such a bunch of naïve posts, ever. 

 

[EVENKEEL]

55 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Turkeys running to the abattoir saying, please kill me. I have never read such a bunch of naïve posts, ever. 

I'm in total agreement. But, in all fairness their probably is a large group of expats who have put all their eggs in one basket and walk on eggshells here.

[Doctor Tom]

23 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I'm in total agreement. But, in all fairness their probably is a large group of expats who have put all their eggs in one basket and walk on eggshells here.

Yep.  I'm afraid that many expats, even those who have invested heavily, financially and emotionally, in their life here. for years,  forget that the vast majority of us are here on sufferance, at the wim of the government, and/or the military, for a maximum of 12 months, until the next extension.  While I am left alone and treated with a reasonable level of respect. as a law abiding visitor I will stay.  If that stops I will leave, without a backward glance. 

Edited June 19 by Doctor Tom

[oldestswinger]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

I went to the Pattaya Tax Office to request a tax number and the lady there refused point blank to issue me with one.

The same happened to me in a Bangkok Tax Office,

[Mike Lister]

Just now, oldestswinger said:

The same happened to me in a Bangkok Tax Office,

Use the Bangkok Revenue headquarters help line, that's what it's for.

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

12 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Yep.  I'm afraid that many expats, even those who have invested heavily, financially and emotionally, in their life here. for years,  forget that the vast majority of us are here on sufferance, at the wim of the government, and/or the military, for a maximum of 12 months, until the next extension.  While I am left alone and treated with a reasonable level of respect. as a law abiding visitor I will stay.  If that stops I will leave, without a backward glance. 

But you have some here who are bound and determined to start paying taxes to the point of calling the revenue dept to inquire for the paperwork. I've spent an oodle of money here, bought property, have a kid but I have options. 

 

 

[anrcaccount]

14 hours ago, jesimps said:

Last Monday I went to the Jomtien Tax Office to request a tax number and the lady there refused point blank to issue me with one. I had my wife explain to her all that i'd been reading on here about how foreigners staying long term had to be assessed for tax, but she wouldn't budge

 

This is a great example of why all these tax threads provide little/no benefit, in fact they cause harm. 

 

Posters encouraging this endless tax discourse, are responsible for:

• Posters like this wasting their time , and
• Posters wasting their time and money restructuring their finances based on speculation in this forum, and
• In more extreme cases, taking actions like leaving the country to avoid spending 180 days in a year.

 

All of which are completely unnecessary actions until such time as the facts are clarified, this has not occurred yet. 

 

The better safe than sorry" brigade have a a lot to answer for. They should consider the way their discussion contributes to people taking action in the real world.

 

 

[paulbrow]

Mine certainly are not the same, other than both being 13 characters, they aren't even similar formats.

[Mike Lister]

27 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

This is a great example of why all these tax threads provide little/no benefit, in fact they cause harm. 

 

Posters encouraging this endless tax discourse, are responsible for:

• Posters like this wasting their time , and
• Posters wasting their time and money restructuring their finances based on speculation in this forum, and
• In more extreme cases, taking actions like leaving the country to avoid spending 180 days in a year.

 

All of which are completely unnecessary actions until such time as the facts are clarified, this has not occurred yet. 

 

The better safe than sorry" brigade have a a lot to answer for. They should consider the way their discussion contributes to people taking action in the real world.

 

 

Nonsense!

 

Walk into any bank in Thailand and you'll likely get a different story about whether or not you can open a bank account or not, the same thing is true of the need for TIN's to be issued. If anyone wnats a TIN, go and demand one, if that's not successful, call the Revenue hotline in Bangkok, they will get you one pretty sharpish if you ask them.

 

Not everyone wants to wait until next January to try and understand what impact, if any, there may be as a result of the rule change. Many people live their lives trying to  understand these things in advance and do their homework and math so they can relax a little bit. 

 

I have a mail box full of PM's from aged pensioners on limited incomes who have asked me to try and understand their likely tax liability. In EVERY case, the answer has been positive and the person reassured so now they don't have to stress for the rest of the year, waiting for whatever it is that some others seem to be waiting for.

 

In the black or white tax scenario's there is either no tax to pay or there is a substantial tax impact, one group can sit back and relax and the other group can begin doing some early planning. The group in the middle, the grey group, they can do some whatiffery but they will be foolish to take it too far, until some of the grey is removed.

 

What people do with information is their choice but nobody can do anything without any information, except be concerned or worse. What we've done, that's many many of us, over the [ast six months, is to try and provide that information and I think collectively the group has done an excellent job, under difficult circumstances. How people handle the information, how they interpret the future, is beyond anyone's control except theirs but nobody needs to be critical of those who have done their best to seek it out and display it in an understandable way. 

 

Lastly, there have been maybe half a dozen members who have complained in posts such as yours, you are outweighed in the opinion polls by at least 100:1.

 

 

 

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

But you have some here who are bound and determined to start paying taxes to the point of calling the revenue dept to inquire for the paperwork. I've spent an oodle of money here, bought property, have a kid but I have options. 

 

 

 

Nonsense.  Obtaining a TIN has nothing to do with paying any extra tax.  Obtaining a TIN will allow you to pay any tax due, if it is - and we all have the same legal requirement to do this here just as we (mostly) do in our home countries; it will also allow those whose home country banks ask for it, to have it readily available.  Thailand has only recently joined CRS so these changes will take time to feed through, but they will.

 

If you have your tax affairs in order, then  in all probability, the vast majority will have little or no liability here through a combination of tax already paid, tax allowances here, non-assessable income and DTAs.

 

If it becomes a requirement down the line to show evidence of no tax owed for annual extension, already having a TIN (and maybe  filing a return showing zero tax owed) will make this a smooth transaction rather than a last minute scramble alongside the hundreds of others in th same boat. 

 

Those who wish can, of course, go rght ahead and do nothing, wail and moan and shout they are leaving for greener pastures (where?!) if the authorities bring this in.  Maybe they should ignore threads such as this?  Others might make more prudent preparation.

 

PH

[Doctor Tom]

28 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Lastly, there have been maybe half a dozen members who have complained in posts such as yours, you are outweighed in the opinion polls by at least 100:1.

That doesn't make them wrong.