How will it end?

[BobBKK]

  On 7/5/2024 at 3:43 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

And yet, Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea -- nations in the Bob's Axis of Awesomeness -- all have done that and are doing that currently.

 

A balanced critique would lend your post more credibility... oh wait...

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 I never mentioned those countries, and it is off-topic despite your hate of them. How will it end? Is the topic, and the poll shows that 50% of respondents think Russia will win partially or wholly. 

As for balanced critique, pot and kettle come to mind.

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 4:38 AM, BobBKK said:

 I never mentioned those countries, and it is off-topic despite your hate of them. How will it end? Is the topic, and the poll shows that 50% of respondents think Russia will win partially or wholly. 

As for balanced critique, pot and kettle come to mind.

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It's not off topic -- it directly addresses the fact that you say this is a problem for the United States, and yet the countries in league together on this invasion do it all the time.  It's directly relevant, and for you to oppose Ukraine getting support from allies, while Russia does the same, is (as I always say about your posts) hypocritical.

 

Feel free to expand your critique to Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea.  And I'll happily admit that on this subject, you are not a hypocrite.

[BobBKK]

  On 7/5/2024 at 6:41 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

It's not off topic -- it directly addresses the fact that you say this is a problem for the United States, and yet the countries in league together on this invasion do it all the time.  It's directly relevant, and for you to oppose Ukraine getting support from allies, while Russia does the same, is (as I always say about your posts) hypocritical.

 

Feel free to expand your critique to Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea.  And I'll happily admit that on this subject, you are not a hypocrite.

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 Russia pre-war did not do the same, and you know it. Stop deflecting as you always do - the last stand of a hopeless argument. USA mind your OWN business - open borders, fentanyl, homeless Vets on the streets, etc.

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 6:50 AM, BobBKK said:

 Russia pre-war did not do the same, and you know it. Stop deflecting as you always do - the last stand of a hopeless argument. USA mind your OWN business - open borders, fentanyl, homeless Vets on the streets, etc.

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My gosh, your ignorance is astounding.  Syria, Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, a whole host of African countries.  Bob, you always make some sad sack whine like "bullying!" 'stalking!" "deflecting!" when you're hopelessly outmatched in an argument.  You're trying to defend the indefensible while really knowing nothing about the situation, other than what pro-Russian sources tell you.  You really don't know history or context, Bob, and it makes your arguments absurd.  Read a book, for goodness' sake.

[BobBKK]

  On 7/5/2024 at 7:08 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

My gosh, your ignorance is astounding.  Syria, Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, a whole host of African countries.  Bob, you always make some sad sack whine like "bullying!" 'stalking!" "deflecting!" when you're hopelessly outmatched in an argument.  You're trying to defend the indefensible while really knowing nothing about the situation, other than what pro-Russian sources tell you.  You really don't know history or context, Bob, and it makes your arguments absurd.  Read a book, for goodness' sake.

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You are a very new member, so I'll go lightly on you. The war began in 2014 - do some research.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/5/2024 at 3:36 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

By your standard we should never have helped stop Germany in either of the world wars as neither of those had overwhelming public support at the time we were helping. 

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You apparently ignored the bit about not having a treaty. In WW2 Britain had a treaty with Poland which obliged them to go to war.

 

Britain should IMO not have gone to war against Germany in WW1, as it was a farce. IMO all those men died for nothing.

All that winning achieved was providing the conditions in which Hitler came to power.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/5/2024 at 3:41 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

Wow, you're pretty ignorant of both the Vietnam War and Russia's invasion of Afghanistan.  Vietnam -- full support from Russia and China, which included MIGs, antiaircraft guns and missiles, weapons, advisors, etc.  The NVA was a well-trained army thanks to foreign intervention.  Afghanistan had Stingers, weapons, etc from the U.S.

 

Ukraine is supplying sufficient men to kill Russians quite efficiently, both via tech and in the trenches.

 

The reason I gave was valid and remains valid.  Your enthusiastic support of Russia notwithstanding.

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You should stop trying to attack me personally and come up with a decent counter argument. So far you are failing rather dismally to prove your point.

 

Your enthusiastic support of Russia notwithstanding.

Pathetic and wrong. Is that all you have?

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 7:12 AM, BobBKK said:

 You are a very new member, so I'll go lightly on you. The war began in 2014 - do some research.

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Oh, please, don't go lightly on me! I'm JUST SO NEW! 🤣  Oh Bob, you never fail to entertain.  

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 7:12 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

You apparently ignored the bit about not having a treaty. In WW2 Britain had a treaty with Poland which obliged them to go to war.

 

Britain should IMO not have gone to war against Germany in WW1, as it was a farce. IMO all those men died for nothing.

All that winning achieved was providing the conditions in which Hitler came to power.

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The United States didn't, and in fact public opinion was strongly against involvement.  That was the argument, not whether or not the Treaty of Versailles was a good idea.

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 7:19 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

You should stop trying to attack me personally and come up with a decent counter argument. So far you are failing rather dismally to prove your point.

 

Your enthusiastic support of Russia notwithstanding.

Pathetic and wrong. Is that all you have?

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1) I'm not attacking you personally, I said you were ignorant of the subject.  2) You do enthusiastically support Russia (interesting you consider that a personal attack).  3) And my argument directly addressed your points, and in fact refuted them.

 

"Pathetic and wrong"?  Wow, thai, sure sounds like you're attacking me personally.  You and Bob are alike in several ways, one of them being crying about being attacked, stalked, bullied, etc and yet doing worse.  The difference is, I don't care, I won't cry about it, and I won't report you for hurting my feelings.  The two of you are arguing for the worst regimes on earth; if the discussion gets salty... it shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Gweiloman]

  On 7/5/2024 at 3:27 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

And sometimes it works.  Ask the Chinese when they invaded Vietnam.

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Glad to see that you acknowledge that it’s the hope strategy. As for China invading Vietnam, no idea what you’re on about and it’s off topic anyway.

[rabas]

  On 7/5/2024 at 2:32 PM, Gweiloman said:

Glad to see that you acknowledge that it’s the hope strategy. As for China invading Vietnam, no idea what you’re on about and it’s off topic anyway.

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You should learn.  China-Vietnam is an excellent big bully beats up smaller neighbor parallel to Russia-Ukraine, many wars. Just like Russia, China had trouble accepting Vietnam is not China. Same same. Lots of book burning and brutal cultural cleaning, too. 

 

But for the last 1000 years, Vietnam successfully retained its sovereignty in spite of Chinese aggression and a few wars.

 

It's not about hope. it's about defending family, home, and culture, just like Ukraine. That suggests Ukraine may have a better ending than Russia. 

[kwonitoy]

  On 7/5/2024 at 1:21 AM, Gweiloman said:

Aren’t European farmers protesting about grain imports from Ukraine? Just imagine if the EU were to control it instead. It would be weaponised in the blink of an eye so I reckon the global majority would prefer if Russia controlled it.

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Yes, things are much better under russian control..../s

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

The United States didn't, and in fact public opinion was strongly against involvement.  That was the argument, not whether or not the Treaty of Versailles was a good idea.

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Perhaps you should learn a bit of history before lecturing me.

 

https://www.dla.mil/About-DLA/News/News-Article-View/Article/1162583/logistics-and-american-entry-into-the-great-war/

 

But by early 1917, Germany was on the verge of losing the war. And so it declared on Jan. 31 that its submarines had the right to sink any ship in the war zone encircling the United Kingdom, without warning.

Between this announcement and the U.S. declaration of war on April 6, Germany sank 10 U.S. merchant ships.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/5/2024 at 7:29 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

2) You do enthusiastically support Russia

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Prove it with a quote from me enthusiastically supporting Russia or that's a lie.

Pointing out that Ukraine is losing, western countries are wasting money sending bullets to Ukraine, and it could all have been avoided before the invasion is not enthusiastic support of Russia.

[Gweiloman]

  On 7/5/2024 at 4:07 PM, rabas said:

 

You should learn.  China-Vietnam is an excellent big bully beats up smaller neighbor parallel to Russia-Ukraine, many wars. Just like Russia, China had trouble accepting Vietnam is not China. Same same. Lots of book burning and brutal cultural cleaning, too. 

 

But for the last 1000 years, Vietnam successfully retained its sovereignty in spite of Chinese aggression and a few wars.

 

It's not about hope. it's about defending family, home, and culture, just like Ukraine. That suggests Ukraine may have a better ending than Russia. 

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Only a western imperialistic mind could have come up with such a hypocritical post.

 

But for the last 1000 years, Vietnam successfully retained its sovereignty in spite of Chinese aggression and a few wars.

 

Vietnam became a French colony in 1877 with the founding of French Indochina, which included Tonkin, Annam, Cochin China and Cambodia. (Laos was added in 1893.) The French lost control of their colony briefly during World War II when Japanese troops occupied Vietnam

 

It’s also interesting that the wests’ major ally in Asia is another well known imperialistic nation, probably the only one.

 

It's not about hope. it's about defending family, home, and culture,

 

The political impact of colonialism led to persecution, and imprisonment of those who opposed the French colonial regime. The cultural impact of colonialism introduced Western culture to Vietnam, resulting in the decline of traditional cultural practices and values.

 

Hypocrisy, anyone?

[BobBKK]

  On 7/6/2024 at 1:41 AM, Gweiloman said:

Only a western imperialistic mind could have come up with such a hypocritical post.

 

But for the last 1000 years, Vietnam successfully retained its sovereignty in spite of Chinese aggression and a few wars.

 

Vietnam became a French colony in 1877 with the founding of French Indochina, which included Tonkin, Annam, Cochin China and Cambodia. (Laos was added in 1893.) The French lost control of their colony briefly during World War II when Japanese troops occupied Vietnam

 

It’s also interesting that the wests’ major ally in Asia is another well known imperialistic nation, probably the only one.

 

It's not about hope. it's about defending family, home, and culture,

 

The political impact of colonialism led to persecution, and imprisonment of those who opposed the French colonial regime. The cultural impact of colonialism introduced Western culture to Vietnam, resulting in the decline of traditional cultural practices and values.

 

Hypocrisy, anyone?

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 Yup, but he'll never see it - one-track thinking, unfortunately, but it doesn't matter - Russia has won, and it's just a question of a negotiated settlement.

[Gweiloman]

  On 7/5/2024 at 5:10 PM, kwonitoy said:

Yes, things are much better under russian control..../s

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, sad isn’t it?

 

As Kissinger supposedly once said, “to be America’s enemy is dangerous, to be America’s ally is fatal”. Lindsey Graham considers this money well spent.

 

Poor Ukraine.

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 2:32 PM, Gweiloman said:

Glad to see that you acknowledge that it’s the hope strategy. As for China invading Vietnam, no idea what you’re on about and it’s off topic anyway.

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China invaded Vietnam in 1979 and got beat.  It’s directly on topic.

 

I’m glad I’m able to educate you on so many things, @Gweiloman.  Between you, @thaibeachlovers, and @BobBKK it seems I’m the only one who actually knows anything about history.

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/6/2024 at 6:54 AM, BobBKK said:

 Yup, but he'll never see it - one-track thinking, unfortunately, but it doesn't matter - Russia has won, and it's just a question of a negotiated settlement.

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Someone better tell the Russians they won — with constant losses it seems they’d welcome the news.  What an unbelievably stupid statement, Bob.

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 9:22 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Prove it with a quote from me enthusiastically supporting Russia or that's a lie.

Pointing out that Ukraine is losing, western countries are wasting money sending bullets to Ukraine, and it could all have been avoided before the invasion is not enthusiastic support of Russia.

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Sweetheart, every post is unbalanced, partisan, and repeats Kremlin talking points.  Go ahead and criticize the morality of the war, the bogus pretexts Russia still occasionally maintains, etc.  Would Ukraine being absorbed by Russia be a good thing or a bad thing? You can do this, of course and still be a critic of the West, Ukraine, the United States, etc.  I’ve asked you and Bob to do this many times but you won’t.

 

Yes, you enthusiastically support Russia’s war in Ukraine.

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/5/2024 at 9:18 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps you should learn a bit of history before lecturing me.

 

https://www.dla.mil/About-DLA/News/News-Article-View/Article/1162583/logistics-and-american-entry-into-the-great-war/

 

But by early 1917, Germany was on the verge of losing the war. And so it declared on Jan. 31 that its submarines had the right to sink any ship in the war zone encircling the United Kingdom, without warning.

Between this announcement and the U.S. declaration of war on April 6, Germany sank 10 U.S. merchant ships.

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I’m aware of this.  It does nothing to disprove my point.  Congratulations— you’ve become even more of a sophist than ever.

[BobBKK]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:08 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

China invaded Vietnam in 1979 and got beat.  It’s directly on topic.

 

I’m glad I’m able to educate you on so many things, @Gweiloman.  Between you, @thaibeachlovers, and @BobBKK it seems I’m the only one who actually knows anything about history.

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 History?  Do you mean that diatribe that was written by the winners?  The war started in 2014 - educate yourself my dear fellow, educate yourself.

[BobBKK]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:09 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

Someone better tell the Russians they won — with constant losses it seems they’d welcome the news.  What an unbelievably stupid statement, Bob.

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 It's all but over. Ukraine is losing between 8 and 10 times the soldiers than the Russians - it's attrition, unfortunately, but the result will be the same. 

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:19 AM, BobBKK said:

 History?  Do you mean that diatribe that was written by the winners?  The war started in 2014 - educate yourself my dear fellow, educate yourself.

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You keep saying the war started in 2014, as if that’s some decisive rebuttal.  Yes, Bob, Russia has been taking parts of Ukraine for many years now.  And the idea that you and your fellow Russia supporters keep putting forth — that if Ukraine gives up now and just gives Russia more territory then there will be peace — is hilariously wrong.  Russia won’t stop until it has all of Ukraine.  And then it will go on to the next country.

 

Appeasing Hitler didn’t work in the 30s, Bob.  Why would appeasing Putin work now?

[ChicagoExpat]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:21 AM, BobBKK said:

 It's all but over. Ukraine is losing between 8 and 10 times the soldiers than the Russians - it's attrition, unfortunately, but the result will be the same. 

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Where do you get your magic figures, Bob?  Russian MoD, right?

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:08 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

China invaded Vietnam in 1979 and got beat.  It’s directly on topic.

 

I’m glad I’m able to educate you on so many things, @Gweiloman.  Between you, @thaibeachlovers, and @BobBKK it seems I’m the only one who actually knows anything about history.

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I gave that a laugh emoji.

Here's another

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:14 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

Sweetheart, every post is unbalanced, partisan, and repeats Kremlin talking points.  Go ahead and criticize the morality of the war, the bogus pretexts Russia still occasionally maintains, etc.  Would Ukraine being absorbed by Russia be a good thing or a bad thing? You can do this, of course and still be a critic of the West, Ukraine, the United States, etc.  I’ve asked you and Bob to do this many times but you won’t.

 

Yes, you enthusiastically support Russia’s war in Ukraine.

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Given you didn't come up with any proof that I'm enthusiastically supporting Russia’s war in Ukraine that IS a lie, IMO.

 

Would Ukraine being absorbed by Russia be a good thing or a bad thing?

It's a nonsense to say that all of Ukraine is the objective, as the invasion failed to do so and Russia IMO no longer has means to do so. They do have the means to keep Eastern Ukraine and Crimea though, IMO.

In any event, why would I care who runs Ukraine? Makes no difference to me and there are worse conflicts going on all over the world- do you care about Sudan or Burma?

 

 I’ve asked you and Bob to do this many times but you won’t.

In what universe do you live to think that either of us has to do anything you want?

 

Here's a thought. Instead of constantly attacking other posters, you could discuss the topic- you know "how will it end".

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:16 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

I’m aware of this.  It does nothing to disprove my point.  Congratulations— you’ve become even more of a sophist than ever.

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Still with the insults. Are you incapable of posting without the insults or attacks on other posters?

Have I posted any insults about you? I have not, despite your insults to me.

[tgw]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:23 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

You keep saying the war started in 2014, as if that’s some decisive rebuttal.  Yes, Bob, Russia has been taking parts of Ukraine for many years now.  And the idea that you and your fellow Russia supporters keep putting forth — that if Ukraine gives up now and just gives Russia more territory then there will be peace — is hilariously wrong.  Russia won’t stop until it has all of Ukraine.  And then it will go on to the next country.

 

Appeasing Hitler didn’t work in the 30s, Bob.  Why would appeasing Putin work now?

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you won't get a useful answer from someone working for the enemy.