Advice needed post extension retirement funds

[sup3r1or]

 Hello everyone, I really really  need an advice. Me personally I have been on working visa since 2016, so I didn't have much experience with retirement visa. 

My dad came over in September last year, we put 800k into bank account and in December extended his visa. I helped him with the forms (because he can't see well) and dropped him off at the immigration and went to take kids to school. When I came back to pick him up everything was done, the lady office told me. Please do not go below 400k and next time we will need a 12-month statement.  

Yesterday I was going through his documents just to see what's what, I notice this paper that he signed that said 800k after extension must not be touched for 3 months! The problem is I just saw this paper yesterday and literally 2 weeks after extending his visa, he bought a scooter so he can commute around.  What should I do now? I have no idea. I wish they would have said so to me, when we extended. If I go and talk to them, will they just suddenly say that his visa is cancelled, and he must leave? Or that he overstayed? Next renewal will be in December, I don't know if there are any options that we have like leaving the country and making a new retirement visa? Our immigration here in the small town is pretty strict and very meticulous, when it comes to paperwork. 

Can any please give any advice on the best course of action, I really feel like if he has to leave, he will go back home, which would be heartbreaking for me. 

 

[hotandsticky]

800K should indeed remain for 3 months after approval. That is the Immigration rule.  Not many Immigration offices check. They will check for dropping below 400k.

 

 

I doubt that it will cause your friend any issues....just tell him to keep above 400k.

[Jingthing]

This is a VERY BAD situation.

If you lived in an area with "fixer" visa agents the problem could be buried at the next extension.

Legally, his extension is no longer valid.

There have been very little or no reports about what happens to people in cases like this.

I assume that most:

Use an agent

Or

Start over

rather than go in for the next extension in violation. 

Hopefully, someone can provide more information.

There is a solution though IF your office will do conversions of entry stamps or tourist visas to  O visas to retirement extensions within Thailand. That would mean yes starting over but no need to go back to home country for an OA.

O visas are better anyway. 

Edited June 23 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

800K should indeed remain for 3 months after approval. That is the Immigration rule.  Not many Immigration offices check. They will check for dropping below 400k.

 

 

I doubt that it will cause your friend any issues....just tell him to keep above 400k.

It definitely WILL cause a big problem at the NEXT extension.

Yes otherwise it won't be discovered BEFORE then unless confessed. He's in violation right now. Technically his current extension is invalid.

[hotandsticky]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is a VERY BAD situation.

If you lived in an area with "fixer" visa agents the problem could be buried at the next extension.

Legally, his extension is no longer valid.

There has been very little or no reports about what happens to people in cases like this.

Hopefully, someone can provide more information.

There is a solution though IF your office will do conversions of O visas to retirement extensions within Thailand. That would mean yes starting over but no need to go back to home country for an OA.

O visas are better anyway. 

 

 

No it isn't a bad situation; even Jomtien don't bother checking the 3 month rule, despite giving you an appointment notice.

 

He just needs to keep above 400k.

Edited June 23 by hotandsticky

[chickenslegs]

Does your dad have money in any other bank accounts here? If so, he may be able to show that his total available money did not fall below 800,000 during the first 3 months.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

No it isn't a bad situation; even Jomtien don't bother checking the 3 month rule, despite giving you an appointment notice.

 

He just needs to keep above 400k.

This is absolutely totally false and dangerous MISINFORMATION.

Jomtien most definitely does look at the full year's back history to determine compliance.

You're just wrong. Completely wrong. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, chickenslegs said:

Does your dad have money in any other bank accounts here? If so, he may be able to show that his total available money did not fall below 800,000 during the first 3 months.

That's a good point if he does have enough in other accounts.

[Jingthing]

About Jomtien.

You may be able to just show your passbook going back the full year IF there are no composite transactions (deposits or withdrawals).

If not every single transaction is shown in the book, then you must get a printed statement from the bank going back the full year.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

This is absolutely totally false and dangerous MISINFORMATION.

Jomtien most definitely does look at the full year's back history to determine compliance.

You're just wrong. Completely wrong. 

 

 

I am not wrong.....it happened to me 2 years ago at Jomtien - they only focussed on not dropping under 400k. 

 

Nobody I know of bothers to attend the 3 month appointment.

 

 

 

I doubt that it is the Jomtien office he deals with (the lady said keep above 400k and there was no mention of a 3 month appointment). Even better.

 

 

 

[hotandsticky]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

About Jomtien.

You may be able to just show your passbook going back the full year IF there are no composite transactions (deposits or withdrawals).

If not every single transaction is shown in the book, then you must get a printed statement from the bank going back the full year.

 

 

Personally, I don't think it is Jomtien.

 

I have only been asked for 12 months statements when I have used the income method.

[Jingthing]

Just now, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I am not wrong.....it happened to me 2 years ago at Jomtien - they only focussed on not dropping under 400k. 

 

Nobody I know of bothers to attend the 3 month appointment.

 

 

 

I doubt that it is the Jomtien office he deals with (the lady said keep above 400k and there was no mention of a 3 month appointment). Even better.

 

 

 

Oh!

You're talking about a completely different issue!

Now I understand where you're coming from.

Absolutely there is NO NEED to attend the three month after meeting ordered by Jomtien and almost nowhere else.

But you MUST, absolutely MUST be in full compliance at your next extension and THEY DO CHECK.

I also ignore the order for the the three month check in.

Not the same issue at all. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Personally, I don't think it is Jomtien.

 

I have only been asked for 12 months statements when I have used the income method.

Income statements irrelevant for bank method.

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Income statements irrelevant for bank method.

 

That is what I said.

[Jingthing]

Just now, hotandsticky said:

 

That is what I said.

OK.

To be clear again the OP wasn't even talking about what you were talking about! The three month order to attend the office again which Jomtien does and almost nowhere else does and we agree that SHOULD BE IGNORED. 

[Tod Daniels]

@sup3r1or

Despite people saying nothing will happen believe me it COULD indeed turn into a situation that will have to be addressed when he goes for the new extension  

Unfortunately, that you nor he noticed the paper that states the seasoning isn't gonna cut any ice with the immigration office.

The rule is written clearly, the 800k has to be in the account for 2 months before you apply for your extension, it has to stay in the account for 3 months after the extension takes effect, and then the balance can't go below 400K baht the rest of the year.

Now most offices require you to get a print out from the bank of the year detail transaction report showing the balance on the account (and every transaction) for the previous year <- That's how they can check if you followed the rules.
BUT
Some don't ask for it

What I'd say is, Don't let the balance go below 400K baht and get it back to 800K baht 2 months before you will have him apply for the next year extension.

Go to the office and apply for the next year extension about a month before this one expires, with the documents copies, bank letter, bank book update, like you had this year (new ones though 😛 ) and act like everything is okay. DON'T say anything about you/him pulling the balance below 800K before the 3 months was up after he got the extension.

Believe me IF it's gonna be a problem they'll catch it.

If they do catch it; they'll either say he has to leave, come back free stamp entry and start the whole process again (90 day non-O, year extension etc) OR they'll offer out a "for a fee it can be okay" solution 😮

Either way nothing other than those two things will happen. He's far from the first foreigner who didn't understand the seasoning rules,

At this time do nothing, other than make sure you follow the seasoning until you go apply for the next extension. 

Edited June 23 by Tod Daniels

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Tod Daniels said:

@sup3r1or

Despite people saying nothing will happen believe me it COULD indeed turn into a situation that will have to be addressed when he goes for the new extension  

Unfortunately, that you nor he noticed the paper that states the seasoning isn't gonna cut any ice with the immigration office.

The rule is written clearly, the 800k has to be in the account for 2 months before you apply for your extension, it has to stay in the account for 3 months after the extension takes effect, and then the balance can't go below 400K baht the rest of the year.

Now most offices require you to get a print out from the bank of the year detail transaction report showing the balance on the account (and every transaction) for the previous year <- That's how they can check if you followed the rules.
BUT
Some don't ask for it

What I'd say is, Don't let the balance go below 400K baht and get it back to 800K baht 2 months before you will have him apply for the next year extension.

Go to the office and apply for the next year extension about a month before this one expires, with the documents copies, bank letter, bank book update, like you had this year (new ones though 😛 ) and act like everything is okay. DON'T say anything about you/him pulling the balance below 800K before the 3 months was up after he got the extension.

Believe me IF it's gonna be a problem they'll catch it.

If they do catch it; they'll either say he has to leave, come back free stamp entry and start the whole process again (90 day non-O, year extension etc) OR they'll offer out a "for a fee it can be okay" solution 😮

Either way nothing other than those two things will happen. He's far from the first foreigner who didn't understand the seasoning rules,

At this time do nothing, other than make sure you follow the seasoning until you go apply for the next extension. 

That's reasonable advice but I predict that when he goes in for the next extension and will definitely be noticed to almost definitely be a problem. That's why it's my opinion that most people that know they are in such clear violation simply would not show up at all (or use an agent) and start over (though you could wait until close to the next extension to do that).

Are you feeling lucky?

Edited June 23 by Jingthing

[Sheryl]

@sup3r1or

The immigration rule for people using money in the bank method is:

• 800k balance maintained for 3 months after extension and again for 2 months prior to next extension
• In between, cannot drop below 400K

Many people -- probably most -- just keep 800K untouched and use another account for their daily needs as too much risk of forgetting or not meeting the exact dates. (If doing that, leave some room for bank charges. Even 1 baht below 800/400k is a problem).

 

His visa is already used. Nobody is going to cancel his current extension of stay, but they will not renew it next year when they check and see he did not comply with above rule.  He will have to start the process all over, as described in the post above.  Small chance that they won't see this, most offices check closely. Small chance that they'll agree to overlook (for free or for a "tip")it if you plead. What Immigration Office is this?

 

The rules are specified in a police order  shown on the immigration website https://www.immigration.go.th/?p=14695

 

Never rely on Immigration Office staff to inform you of rules, it is up to each person to stay current on this by themselves. Regular reading of this forum will help as changes are always reported and discussed here. Otherwise, review the Immigration website regularly.

 

 

 

 

[MeePeeMai]

10 minutes ago, Tod Daniels said:

The rule is written clearly, the 800k has to be in the account for 2 months before you apply for your extension, it has to stay in the account for 3 months after the extension takes effect, and then the balance can't go below 400K baht the rest of the year.

Now most offices require you to get a print out from the bank of the year detail transaction report showing the balance on the account (and every transaction) for the previous year <- That's how they can check if you followed the rules.
BUT
Some don't ask for it

 

I agree, 800k in the bank method and on a 12 month Non-O extension will require a 12 month bank statement starting from the day you received your last extension to the day you will get your new extension (in Udon Thani at least).  They DO go over it with a fine tooth comb checking the balances / deposits and withdrawals to make sure you are in compliance.

 

If he's in not in compliance then I agree, he will have a problem in Dec. when he applies for his next 12 month extension and might either need the help of an agent... or might need to exit Thailand, re-enter on a visa exempt to start the Non-O process all over again.

[Jingthing]

Sheryl nails it as usual. 

 

But I still have the question -- if someone was stupid enough to go in early and confess their violation, would they let the person stay the full year?

 

I don't think so! But I could be wrong.

But don't be that stupid. 

[DrJack54]

OP, be aware that some of the posts in this thread are way off the mark imo.

The financial requirements are clearly stated in some of the replies.

Most offices are extremely strict on meeting those requirements.

 

Your father has couple of options.

1. Start over ..which would require a border bounce. Note this assumes no reentry permit in pp.

There is a process to obtain non O from visa exempt entry and then subsequent extension.

 

2. Some will suggest he goes to his immigration office pleads ignorance. Can't imagine much success.

That could result in being given 7 days to exit Thailand. 

 

3. You could wait till next extension is due and use an agent. 

You would need to ask agent if a new non O is required 

 

Note: any dealings with immigration in meantime could cause issues.

Recently I obtained new pp and went to CW immigration for transfer.

Immigration made me provide my bank book and photocopies of all balances back to date of current permission of stay granted.. 

 

Edit: OP I see you started a thread September last year asking about financials for retirement.

Here is part of first reply....

"2.  You need to have 800k in account for at least 5 months so most will just keep it above 800k always."

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

OP, be aware that some of the posts in this thread are way off the mark imo.

The financial requirements are clearly stated in some of the replies.

Most offices are extremely strict on meeting those requirements.

 

Your father has couple of options.

1. Start over ..which would require a border bounce. Note this assumes no reentry permit in pp.

There is a process to obtain non O from visa exempt entry and then subsequent extension.

 

2. Some will suggest he goes to his immigration office pleads ignorance. Can't imagine much success.

That could result in being given 7 days to exit Thailand. 

 

3. You could wait till next extension is due and use an agent. 

You would need to ask agent if a new non O is required 

 

Note: any dealings with immigration in meantime could cause issues.

Recently I obtained new pp and went to CW immigration for transfer.

Immigration made me provide my bank book and photocopies of all balances back to date of current permission of stay granted..

Hi Dr.

 

He's in a small provincial office so I doubt he has access to an agent.

 

It's my understanding that not ALL offices will do conversions to O visas within Thailand. The OP should determine if his office does or doesn't before proceeding.

 

Thanks for your response to my question if he confessed early. I also assumed he would be made to leave but I wasn't sure. You sound sure.

Definitely do not do that!

 

[Upnotover]

1 hour ago, sup3r1or said:

(because he can't see well)

 

1 hour ago, sup3r1or said:

he bought a scooter so he can commute around.

I really hope he makes it until the next extension!

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I also assumed he would be made to leave but I wasn't sure. You sound sure.

I'm not sure, however thinking distinct possibility.

Immigration offices/officers can vary dramatically.

 

 

[patman30]

try to ignore the fearmongering posts and listen to DrJack
first things first replace the funds
just so they are there
easiest option your dad has, was option 1
at some point in, exit the country without a re-entry stamp
come back in and start over
you know the process now, simple as that
that is all you need to do

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, patman30 said:

try to ignore the fearmongering posts and listen to DrJack
first things first replace the funds
just so they are there
easiest option your dad has, was option 1
at some point in, exit the country without a re-entry stamp
come back in and start over
you know the process now, simple as that
that is all you need to do

What fear mongering?

His advice was pretty much identical to mine.

[sup3r1or]

1 hour ago, chickenslegs said:

Does your dad have money in any other bank accounts here? If so, he may be able to show that his total available money did not fall below 800,000 during the first 3 months.

 

No unfortunately he doesn't.  Only has one bank account, we had 800 there then dipped to under 700, right now it is at 600. We are transferring now in segments. 

[sup3r1or]

1 hour ago, Tod Daniels said:

@sup3r1or

Despite people saying nothing will happen believe me it COULD indeed turn into a situation that will have to be addressed when he goes for the new extension  

Unfortunately, that you nor he noticed the paper that states the seasoning isn't gonna cut any ice with the immigration office.

The rule is written clearly, the 800k has to be in the account for 2 months before you apply for your extension, it has to stay in the account for 3 months after the extension takes effect, and then the balance can't go below 400K baht the rest of the year.

Now most offices require you to get a print out from the bank of the year detail transaction report showing the balance on the account (and every transaction) for the previous year <- That's how they can check if you followed the rules.
BUT
Some don't ask for it

What I'd say is, Don't let the balance go below 400K baht and get it back to 800K baht 2 months before you will have him apply for the next year extension.

Go to the office and apply for the next year extension about a month before this one expires, with the documents copies, bank letter, bank book update, like you had this year (new ones though 😛 ) and act like everything is okay. DON'T say anything about you/him pulling the balance below 800K before the 3 months was up after he got the extension.

Believe me IF it's gonna be a problem they'll catch it.

If they do catch it; they'll either say he has to leave, come back free stamp entry and start the whole process again (90 day non-O, year extension etc) OR they'll offer out a "for a fee it can be okay" solution 😮

Either way nothing other than those two things will happen. He's far from the first foreigner who didn't understand the seasoning rules,

At this time do nothing, other than make sure you follow the seasoning until you go apply for the next extension. 

 

Thanks for the advice, it seems it really depends on the immigration office. Here in Phayao, they are pretty strict compared to the other places I have dealt with. I just though me going there might make things worse.  

 

I was thinking as the worst-case scenario of going to Laos later on before extension, I assume Viantiene still does visas right but only by appointment? Singapore says they only do it for nationals of Singapore.  I really hope it just goes through without an issue, but highly unlikely. 

 

May I also ask, if we leave on this retirement visa and make new one, I assume we need to make Non-O retirement again right, or like tourist across the border would work?

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, sup3r1or said:

May I also ask, if we leave on this retirement visa and make new one, I assume we need to make Non-O retirement again right, or like tourist across the border would work?

If you wait till next extension is due then just do a border run enter with visa exempt.

You can obtain a non O at your immigration office. 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1311886-visa-exempt-to-retirement-extension-process-and-cost/

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's a good point if he does have enough in other accounts.

And if he does, why the 4..k did he not buy the scooter from that?

 

Oh just read that he does not have other money available.

After 14 years on TV/AN, surely the OP should have known the rules.

Edited June 23 by KannikaP