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Posted
  On 6/27/2024 at 3:53 PM, vinny41 said:

Byd replaced the battery under warranty and they were provided with a replacement car while their car was in the workshop

mileage was 33,000 km not 12,000 km

“Battery failure is not a characteristic of the model, and this appears to be an isolated incident that occurred after 14 months and 33,000 kilometres on the road,” a spokeswoman said.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/we-were-team-byd-canberra-familys-chinese-ev-nightmare/news-story/68e4c5c1640b75df2fa46d26a3b160c0

 

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Since when has battery failure been a characteristic of any car?

Posted

Do not support the CCP economy any more than you have to. We all know the vast amounts of produce, parts of phones and cars etc from there, but we don't have to buy their cheap inferior cars as well.

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Posted
  On 6/29/2024 at 7:36 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

I prefer to rely on the Swiss bankers UBS who paid an engineering company to strip down a BYD Seal and report on it.

 

Their report (predictably to the German Automaker Industry) warned those automakers that they had a problem.  Because usually when a car is cheaper, the quality is less and conversely when a car is more expensive the quality increases.  They warned that German Automakers have a problem because not only is the price cheaper, the quality is excellent and the Chinese are at least a generation ahead.

 

In many ways, German Automakers are ahead of the curve for EV cars, VAG, Mercedes & BMW have been providing EV's and PHEV's for quite a few years.  If they are a generation behind the Chinese, imagine how bad it is for Japanese & American automakers, Stellantis and others in Europe.

 

In terms of quality, Toyota are buying BYD's blade batteries for new EV's as are Mercedes.

 

On the matter of resale value, the Thai market is seeing no disparity between EV's and ICE.

 

3 years ago I bought a very expensive new BEV from VAG, I sold it on it's 2nd birthday and I now have a BYD Seal.  The quality is almost identical.

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  On 6/29/2024 at 7:45 AM, proton said:

Do not support the CCP economy any more than you have to. We all know the vast amounts of produce, parts of phones and cars etc from there, but we don't have to buy their cheap inferior cars as well.

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Whilst I sure your sentiments on the CCP, principles are expensive.

 

Their cars are cheap, but as UBS pointed out they are superior not inferior.

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Posted

Cars do wear out eventually.

 

ICE's get crushed and recycled back into steel.

 

The big question is what's going to happen when EV's loaded with very toxic materials in their batteries need recycling. There are reports already of landfills catching fire, caused by lithium batteries.

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Posted
  On 6/29/2024 at 9:27 AM, Bandersnatch said:

 

Every wondered what happens to the Lead in the Battery of an ICE car?

 

If you didn't know Lead is very toxic 

"Lead is a naturally occurring toxic metal found in the Earth's crust. Its widespread use has resulted in extensive environmental contamination"

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/lead-poisoning-and-health

 

BYDs use LiFePO4 in their batteries

"LiFePO4 batteries are non-toxic, non-contaminating and contain no rare earth metals, making them an environmentally conscious choice"

https://www.relionbattery.com/knowledge/how-are-lifepo4-batteries-safer-than-other-lithium-batteries#:~:text=If you're selecting a,them an environmentally conscious choice.

 

"when the batteries run down, 99 percent of this lead is recycled to make new batteries"

https://e360.yale.edu/features/getting-the-lead-out-why-battery-recycling-is-a-global-health-hazard#:~:text=An estimated 85 percent of,recycled to make new batteries.

 

Price for Lead: 2,200 USD/MT

Price for Lithium 15,500 USD/MT

 

99% of the lead in Lead acid batteries is recycled, but you think that Li which is worth 7xs as much is sent to landfill  :cheesy:

 

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Lead is recycled because it is easy to do so. Its melting point is just under 330 C, and it is comparatively non-reactive.

 

Lithium is a completely different kettle of fish. It is highly reactive with air and water, getting it back to metal suitable for re-use is a major technical operation.

 

Do you really think the lithium batteries in our smartphones and laptops are responsibly recycled? How many EV's do you think are out there with the not so innocent fluoride variation?

 

EV Li-ion batteries contain cathode (NMC or LFP), anode (Graphite or Silicon), separator (PVDF polymer) and Electrolyte. Cathode and anode are coated on Al and Cu current collectors respectively. So, in the case of NMC batteries, main metals present are lithium, manganese, cobalt, nickel, graphite, Aluminum and copper.

 

Environmentally conscious? Not with all those elements present.

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Posted
  On 6/29/2024 at 9:50 AM, Lacessit said:

Lead is recycled because it is easy to do so

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You already been proved wrong saying the BYDs batteries are toxic and now you claim that recycling is only done "because it is easy to do so" recycling happens because it's economic to do so.

 

I never claimed EV batteries are easy to recycle in fact they tend to be used in second life applications first

 

secondlifeEVbattereis.jpg.01541695009b3c45ec86cf4054a3a7fa.jpg

 

but EV recycling is happening despite you claiming it's too difficult to do.

 

 

"EV Battery Recycling Is on the Rise

Globally, EV battery recycling capacity is expanding. Battery cell manufacturers are building recycling facilities on-site or close-to-site. Independent recyclers are starting to invest in their own Li-Ion battery recycling plants. Over the past two years alone, more than 20 companies in the automotive and recycling sectors have announced plans for new partnerships"

https://www.bcg.com/publications/2023/striking-gold-with-ev-battery-recycling

 

 

 

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Posted
  On 6/28/2024 at 2:25 AM, Andrew Dwyer said:


What a load of verbal diarrhoea !!

Do he ever get to the point ?

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He lost me around the 3 minutes 35 seconds when he went into an advert. I wonder if he ever finished the story as that is where I dumped the video.

Posted
  On 6/29/2024 at 10:15 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

All those elements you mention make recycling Lithium batteries a profitable operation.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of recycling going on as Lithium batteries begin to reach their end of life in the next 20 years or so.

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You may be right. However, some recycling operations create more problems than they solve. Polymers are a good example.

 

There's a site near Stawell in Australia that was supposed to recycle tyres into diesel and steel. It's become a huge fire headache for the local EPA instead.

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Posted
  On 6/29/2024 at 10:15 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

All those elements you mention make recycling Lithium batteries a profitable operation.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of recycling going on as Lithium batteries begin to reach their end of life in the next 20 years or so.

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There's currently more recycling capacity than demand, as most batteries are still fairly new, so there are relatively few "end of life" (EOL) batteries available for recycling.  It also make sense for battery manufacturers to build recycling facilities, both to recover raw materials from future depleted batteries, and make use of excess materials from the production of them:

 

"For now, roughly half of recycling plants’ feedstock material is made up of production scrap from battery factories, including electrode offcuts and faulty cells. But over the next decade, EOL batteries will come to dominate that feedstock as battery production becomes more efficient and the availability of EOL batteries grows.

While recyclers wait for those EOL batteries to arrive, a lot of their current capacity is underused. “On a global basis, we have much more capacity than what we need,” Melin says."

 

Lithium-ion battery recycling goes large (acs.org)

 

 

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Posted
  On 6/29/2024 at 10:20 AM, Bandersnatch said:

 

You already been proved wrong saying the BYDs batteries are toxic and now you claim that recycling is only done "because it is easy to do so" recycling happens because it's economic to do so.

 

I never claimed EV batteries are easy to recycle in fact they tend to be used in second life applications first

 

secondlifeEVbattereis.jpg.01541695009b3c45ec86cf4054a3a7fa.jpg

 

but EV recycling is happening despite you claiming it's too difficult to do.

 

 

"EV Battery Recycling Is on the Rise

Globally, EV battery recycling capacity is expanding. Battery cell manufacturers are building recycling facilities on-site or close-to-site. Independent recyclers are starting to invest in their own Li-Ion battery recycling plants. Over the past two years alone, more than 20 companies in the automotive and recycling sectors have announced plans for new partnerships"

https://www.bcg.com/publications/2023/striking-gold-with-ev-battery-recycling

 

 

 

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That's repurposing, not recycling. When those batteries fail, what then? The composition of a lead- acid battery is simple, EV batteries are not. They are very complex systems.

 

You are claiming the recycling is profitable, have you actually seen the accounts, profit and loss, balance sheet? My guess would be they are heavily subsidised.

 

It's news to me compounds such as fluoride, nickel, cobalt, phosphorus, copper and aluminium are not environmentally toxic, kindly post a link that supports your assertion.

Posted

So where exactly is the EV battery recycling plant in Thailand?

 

Or, in the alternative, where are the contractual obligations on EV manufacturers to take their batteries back and recycle them?

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