Another Jail Sentence for Holocaust Denier “Nazi Grandma”

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Now you're just being silly ...

.. have a nice day

That's what free speech is, there nothing silly about it is there?

 

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ignorance, there is no thing as free speech and the laws apply worldwide. If you are ok with murder, rape and terror how about pedophilia? Think a little man

 

[transam]

23 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I wouldn't call that hate speech, just a difference of opinion.

 

Why I wouldn't ever go to Germany or probably the EU or UK.   Actually more screwed up (PC/less freedoms) that the USA.   Part of why I left the USA.

It's not a difference of opinion in this ladies case, it is an outright lie.

But if you want to protect these fruitcakes, carry on, you're good at it...😒

 

Your country is the better, for you disappearing......😬

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I knew that before coming here, and I'm a guess, and do realize it's a 3rd world country.   Aside from less majeste, I think I can say and express any opinion I like.    My opinions mean nothing here, and I'm not a citizen, so I really don't care what goes on.

 

Their country, do as they please.   I came here to retire, not change anything.  Mai Pen Rai

 

   Aside from denying the Holocaust, you can anything you like and express any opinion you like in Germany .

   Your opinion wouldn't mean anything there either and you wouldn't be a citizen there .

   So you aren't concerned about any free speech , you just want to be able to deny that Holocaust t happened 

[novacova]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ignorance, there is no thing as free speech and the laws apply worldwide.

No, free speech laws do not apply worldwide. While threatening speech and inciting terror is illegal in most countries such as the USA, free speech still abounds in the USA. Anyone is free to speak up against the government, in most states in the US, if not all, people are free to yell F-U! to the cops without the risk of being hauled off to jail, capitalism is a form of free speech and anyone can setup a business anywhere and move it anywhere in the US, the US has been the leader and an inspiration and example of free speech on the planet, up to now anyway, but it’s incrementally being eroded and that is setting an example as well.

[300sd]

43 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Unless she was there and witnessed something that made her opinion.

my friend's grandma was in Manila when American <deleted> carpet-bombed the whole city.

even now she and her children do their best to avoid anything related to usa. 

my point: she witnessed something

Witnessed something huh. Sure she did. She claims that Jews were attacking Germany before the war among other things. That's why they had to put them in "work camps". Perhaps she witnessed that! Scum is better then her.

[KhunLA]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 Aside from denying the Holocaust, you can anything you like and express any opinion you like in Germany .,,,    Your opinion wouldn't mean anything there either and you wouldn't be a citizen there .,,,    So you aren't concerned about any free speech , you just want to be able to deny that Holocaust t happened 

When did I ever state that ?  Did it happen as we are told, don't know, don't care, wasn't there or even born.  

 

Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be within many members ability.

[NativeBob]

1 minute ago, 300sd said:

She claims that Jews were attacking Germany before the war among other things.

I think that was the main concept of Hitler's hatred toward them. 

Who would listen old, seriously old woman?

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

When did I ever state that ?  Did it happen as we are told, don't know, don't care, wasn't there or even born.  

 

Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be within many members ability.

 

   In your previous  post you stated that you didn't want to go to Germany for the sole reason that Holocaust denial is illegal  .

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, novacova said:

No, free speech laws do not apply worldwide. While threatening speech and inciting terror is illegal in most countries such as the USA, free speech still abounds in the USA. Anyone is free to speak up against the government, in most states in the US, if not all, people are free to yell F-U! to the cops without the risk of being hauled off to jail, capitalism is a form of free speech and anyone can setup a business anywhere and move it anywhere in the US, the US has been the leader and an inspiration and example of free speech on the planet, up to now anyway, but it’s incrementally being eroded and that is setting an example as well.

Of course you can speak freely, so long as you are prepared to face the consequences if you break the law...........such as the lady in the OP and any pedo will tell you be that in the US or any other country.

[still kicking]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Sorry, censorship is never acceptable.   Might not believe in what you say, but believe in your right to state, no matter how wrong it is.

 

If they can call something 'safe & effective' that is neither, and actually kills people, she can believe or not believe, say and think, anything she wants.

So section 112 in Thailand is OK as well?

[novacova]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Of course you can speak freely, so long as you are prepared to face the consequences if you break the law...........such as the lady in the OP and any pedo will tell you be that in the US or any other country.

The lady in the op is a victim of a fascist law for speaking her mind, an idea that brings no harm except for an insult. Pedophilia is an actual crime, it brings actual harm including its documents and inciting it. Please distinguish.

[RuamRudy]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, novacova said:

The lady in the op is a victim of a fascist law for speaking her mind, an idea that brings no harm except for an insult. Pedophilia is an actual crime, it brings actual harm including its documents and inciting it. Please distinguish.

The lady in the op is a victim of a fascist law

 

Like I said

 

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Of course you can speak freely, so long as you are prepared to face the consequences if you break the law...........such as the lady in the OP and any pedo will tell you be that in the US or any other country.

 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The lady in the op is a victim of a fascist law

 

Like I said

 

 

 

Fair enough that she has to face the music, but would you agree that, in this case, the law is unreasonable?

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, still kicking said:

So section 112 in Thailand is OK as well?

Reading comprehension, already addressed.

24 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   In your previous  post you stated that you didn't want to go to Germany for the sole reason that Holocaust denial is illegal  .

The illegality of denying it, and believing or supporting the denial, is two different things.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Fair enough that she has to face the music, but would you agree that, in this case, the law is unreasonable?

Have you done any research on her past convictions and present ones?

[UWEB]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I wouldn't call that hate speech, just a difference of opinion.

 

Why I wouldn't ever go to Germany or probably the EU or UK.   Actually more screwed up (PC/less freedoms) that the USA.   Part of why I left the USA.

That's not a different opinion. Denying the Holocaust is in Germany a criminal offense by Law and especial in her age she should know it better. But she is still a fan of Hitler.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Have you done any research on her past convictions and present ones?

 

Not so much, but from what I have read she sounds like an odious individual.

 

But being offensive and having repugnant opinions should not lead to prison per se. If she uses those views to incite criminal behaviour in others then that's a different issue but I am not sure that, in this case, she did that.

[connda]

15 hours ago, Social Media said:

Ursula Haverbeck, infamously known as the "Nazi grandma," has been sentenced once again for denying the Holocaust. At the age of 95, she faces another 16-month prison term, handed down by a Hamburg court on Wednesday. Haverbeck, a repeat offender in this regard, has been jailed multiple times for her persistent denial of the Nazi genocide.

If she was in the US she could voice her opinion regarding the Holocaust without fear of being thrown into prison. 

I find that countries who don't hold the tenets of Freedom of Speech to be more of a threat to humanity then the Holocaust-denying elderly woman.  So Germany is embracing Totalitarianism by being as intolerant as were the Fascists and the Nazis and the Communists and all the other intolerant "-isms" in the world. 

Throwing a 95 year old elderly woman in prison for an opinion.  That's really needless as well as heartless.  That could pretty much end up being a death sentence for her.  Will throwing her in prison change her mind?  No.  It just attempts to shut her up.   

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Not so much, but from what I have read she sounds like an odious individual.

 

But being offensive and having repugnant opinions should not lead to prison per se. If she uses those views to incite criminal behaviour in others then that's a different issue but I am not sure that, in this case, she did that.

An extremist who was once chairwoman of a far-right training centre  shut down for spreading Nazi propaganda. Like I said, do some research

[connda]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Pretty sad, when free thought, speech, expression is criminalized 

I may disagree with her, but I'd fight for her right to express her views. 

Well, that's the difference between living in a Neo-Totalitarian state and living in a country in which Freedom of Speech is enshrined in a constitution.  Throwing people into prison for opinions is paving the road to Hell.  Personally I wouldn't live in Germany.  I don't like totalitarians anymore than I like Nazis.  They both suck. 

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

If she was in the US she could voice her opinion regarding the Holocaust without fear of being thrown into prison. 

I find that countries who don't hold the tenets of Freedom of Speech to be more of a threat to humanity then the Holocaust-denying elderly woman.  So Germany is embracing Totalitarianism by being as intolerant as were the Fascists and the Nazis and the Communists and all the other intolerant "-isms" in the world. 

Throwing a 95 year old elderly woman in prison for an opinion.  That's really needless as well as heartless.  That could pretty much end up being a death sentence for her.  Will throwing her in prison change her mind?  No.  It just attempts to shut her up.   

[Nick Carter icp]

28 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Reading comprehension, already addressed.

The illegality of denying it, and believing or supporting the denial, is two different things.

 

   So if Thailand bought in laws making it illegal to deny the Holocaust, you would leave Thailand never to return ?

[RuamRudy]

17 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

An extremist who was once chairwoman of a far-right training centre  shut down for spreading Nazi propaganda. Like I said, do some research

 

Yes that's what the article says. I read it.

 

But that's not what she is being prosecuted for now. 

 

Do you really want to live in a world where we lock up people indefinitely because we don't agree with their beliefs? That sounds very totalitarian to me.

 

 

[Yagoda]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Pretty sad, when free thought, speech, expression is criminalized 

Exactly. I love it when people reveal their deep seated hates. Know your enemy I say.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

Yes that's what the article says. I read it.

 

But that's not what she is being prosecuted for now. 

 

Do you really want to live in a world where we lock up people indefinitely because we don't agree with their beliefs? That sounds very totalitarian to me.

 

 

She has avoided jail for years because of the appeal process's. Each time spreading her hate on TV and online carry out more offenses. In the latest trial she did the same in front of the judge. Do you really want to live in a world where we can all break the law and be responsible for the indoctrination of others?

 

This from 7 years ago and they are still waiting to jail her for 6 months.

 

A German court on Monday sentenced an 88-year-old 'Nazi grandma' to six months in jail, the fifth in a string of similar convictions for the repeat Holocaust denier.

Ursula Haverbeck has often denied the mass murder of millions of Jews by the Nazis, which constitutes incitement of racial hatred under German law.

And although she has been convicted on several occasions, she has not served any jail time, as the cases are all still under appeal.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4986134/German-neo-Nazi-88-convicted-Holocaust-denial.html

 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

She has avoided jail for years because of the appeal process's. Each time spreading her hate on TV and online carry out more offenses. In the latest trial she did the same in front of the judge. Do you really want to live in a world where we can all break the law and be responsible for the indoctrination of others?

 

This from 7 years ago and they are still waiting to jail her for 6 months.

 

A German court on Monday sentenced an 88-year-old 'Nazi grandma' to six months in jail, the fifth in a string of similar convictions for the repeat Holocaust denier.

Ursula Haverbeck has often denied the mass murder of millions of Jews by the Nazis, which constitutes incitement of racial hatred under German law.

And although she has been convicted on several occasions, she has not served any jail time, as the cases are all still under appeal.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4986134/German-neo-Nazi-88-convicted-Holocaust-denial.html

 

 

Just because something is written in law does not make it right. The Indian Salt Laws are a good example of that. I am not suggesting that there is an equivalence in the inherent unfairness of the laws, merely stating that simply being in the statute book doesn't automatically confer 'right'.

 

Indoctrination goes on every day around the world, whether it's religious teaching or the dissemination of conspiracy theories and repugnant ideas. If she was inciting people to commit violence then I would agree that she deserves punishment but if it's simply the propagation of a belief then, no matter how unconscionable that belief is, I struggle to accept that this is a crime.

[Celsius]

Holly crp she is older than britman

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Just because something is written in law does not make it right. The Indian Salt Laws are a good example of that. I am not suggesting that there is an equivalence in the inherent unfairness of the laws, merely stating that simply being in the statute book doesn't automatically confer 'right'.

 

Indoctrination goes on every day around the world, whether it's religious teaching or the dissemination of conspiracy theories and repugnant ideas. If she was inciting people to commit violence then I would agree that she deserves punishment but if it's simply the propagation of a belief then, no matter how unconscionable that belief is, I struggle to accept that this is a crime.

You are arguing for a prolific nazi hate speech spreader who has broken the law on multiple occasions even in court, has spreading her hate on national TV and nazi training centres. There is a law against it and yes it is right. She has taken every advantage possible to delay the inevitable and carried on denying there were gas chambers and the death of 6 million Jews. 

 

 

Violence is rooted in Indoctrination. You really need some education on this.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

You are arguing for a prolific nazi hate speech spreader who has broken the law on multiple occasions even in court, has spreading her hate on national TV and nazi training centres. There is a law against it and yes it is right. She has taken every advantage possible to delay the inevitable and carried on denying there were gas chambers and the death of 6 million Jews. 

 

 

Violence is rooted in Indoctrination. You really need some education on this.

 

Should all Holocaust deniers be imprisoned for their belief?