Credit card fraud - does that happen often in Thailand or with Thai credit cards?

[OneMoreFarang]

I have one Thai credit card since over ten years and another card since maybe 5 years. Until now I never had any problems.

Today I received a SMS message from my bank about a suspicious transaction in CAD, Canadian Dollar, about 8000 THB.

After I received that SMS I called my bank, disputed that payment and I had to cancel my card.

This is not the end of the world, but obviously it is annoying.

 

What is your experience with credit card fraud in Thailand? Did it happen to you? Do you have a suspicion how it happened?

I use my card regularly in shops and restaurants in Thailand and online with, what I think, reputable companies. But obviously there can always be that one bad apple.

[msbkk]

I have 2 Thai credit cards since many years. During all these years I have received several SMS messages that there was a suspicious transaction on my card.  The  banks  sent SMS messages and a message in the bank app asking for confirmation if this transactions were done by myself or not.  In all cases the fraudulent transactions were blocked and put on hold by the banks awaiting my ok. In all these years 3 times a card was cancelled and issued new. I have no idea how it happened but the fraud detection system worked very well.

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I haven't had any fraudulent charges on my Thai credit card in over thirty years.

 

My son had a series of fraudulent debits within a short span of time (minutes) on his debit card. He contacted the bank and the charges were reversed shortly thereafter. The charges were in Euros. 

[OneMoreFarang]

A little update:

The company name from the fraudulent charges was unique and I found the Canadian company on the internet. 

Then I sent them an email with some details.

The owner of the company replied to my email, and she cancelled that order already and with that also the payment from my credit card.

A person with a Canadian address had ordered something with my Thai credit card.

The fraudster tried to use two other credit cards before he used my card. It seems that set of some alarm at the banks.

So, the good news is that I didn't lose any money and I know where it happened.

I don't know who stole my credit card data and I guess I will never find out.

Now I have to wait for a new card and change my payment on a couple of services. Annoying, but it could be worse.

 

 

[DrJoy]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

A little update:

The company name from the fraudulent charges was unique and I found the Canadian company on the internet. 

Then I sent them an email with some details.

The owner of the company replied to my email, and she cancelled that order already and with that also the payment from my credit card.

A person with a Canadian address had ordered something with my Thai credit card.

The fraudster tried to use two other credit cards before he used my card. It seems that set of some alarm at the banks.

So, the good news is that I didn't lose any money and I know where it happened.

I don't know who stole my credit card data and I guess I will never find out.

Now I have to wait for a new card and change my payment on a couple of services. Annoying, but it could be worse.

 

 

Was it SCB ?

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Was it SCB ?

No, a VISA card from K-Bank.

But I would be surprised if that would make much of a difference. 

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Many restaurants or small shops, soapy parlours, bars or even some 7-11 have crooked staff who manage to steal the details with customer credit cards.

 

Not to forget the thieves with RFID high power scanners that fit in a pocket and who can get your credit card details only by comming close to you and it's very easy in a packed area. To avoid this, make sure your wallet is one of the latest generation made in anti RFID protected material.

 

No point in arguing.

 

The safest method to move around in Thailand is cash and to avoid credit card theft. Next I would consider to pay via QR code on the phone but that can have risks also.

 

Cash. Cash and Cash when in Thailand.

 

For internet purchase always purchase COD and never put any credit card details in a permament manner under your profile of the website.

[it is what it is]

someone in the uk used my credit card while i was in thailand, as i have transaction updates on my phone i knew right away and contacted my bank, HSBC, they were efficient and professional, it was only about £50GBP but they cancelled the debits so i lost nothing, and cancelled and replaced the card. i rarely use my credit card, mainly for flight booking, so am unsure how it was cloned. was impressed with my bank's prompt and effective action.

[KhunHeineken]

If your credit / debit card details are held on a company's server, that's any company, anywhere in the world it's hosted, eventually that card is going to be compromised.  Such is the amount of cyber attacks these days. 

 

I am now using a virtual card for every online company I have dealings with.  If / when that virtual card is compromised, with a few mouse clicks I get another virtual card and then update my payments / subscriptions etc with companies with the new number. 

 

No more waiting for the bank to post out a physical card and having it forwarded to me. 

 

As cards near their expiry, you have to update them with companies anyway.   

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

If your credit / debit card details are held on a company's server, that's any company, anywhere in the world it's hosted, eventually that card is going to be compromised.  Such is the amount of cyber attacks these days. 

 

I am now using a virtual card for every online company I have dealings with.  If / when that virtual card is compromised, with a few mouse clicks I get another virtual card and then update my payments / subscriptions etc with companies with the new number. 

 

No more waiting for the bank to post out a physical card and having it forwarded to me. 

 

As cards near their expiry, you have to update them with companies anyway.   

Thanks, I never heard about a virtual credit card. Can you write some more about that?

[KhunHeineken]

9 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, I never heard about a virtual credit card. Can you write some more about that?

They are nothing new.  They have been around for a while. 

 

They work the same way as entering the card number, your name, expiry date, and CVV into any online payment system, except there is no plastic card. 

 

They are popular in the USA, not so much in other countries because their banks are not offering them.

 

At any point if you see your virtual card may be compromised, within seconds you have canceled the old one and generated a new virtual card.  Same thing when the virtual card is due to expire, you just generate another one.  No postage or plastic involved.  

 

WISE is popular with expats in Thailand.  WISE do virtual cards. 

 

Read more about it here.

 

https://wise.com/gb/virtual-card/

[Tropicalevo]

Lived here for 24 years and both wife and I have Thai credit cards.

Wife was scammed once.

It was just after I booked a flight with SriLankan Airlines, for her to meet me in Colombo. (She had a larger credit limit just for flights.)

Within 12 hours, the card's details were used to buy items in a number of shops in San Francisco.

It was spotted and I got the transactions reversed.

[Tropicalevo]

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I am now using a virtual card for every online company I have dealings with.  If / when that virtual card is compromised, with a few mouse clicks I get another virtual card and then update my payments / subscriptions etc with companies with the new number. 

I am not sure how that helps to stop fraud.

The only time that my wife's card was scammed, was after I had made an online booking for a flight.

No physical card was involved.

I only use the credit card online.

For shopping, I always use cash.

[Presnock]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:15 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I have one Thai credit card since over ten years and another card since maybe 5 years. Until now I never had any problems.

Today I received a SMS message from my bank about a suspicious transaction in CAD, Canadian Dollar, about 8000 THB.

After I received that SMS I called my bank, disputed that payment and I had to cancel my card.

This is not the end of the world, but obviously it is annoying.

 

What is your experience with credit card fraud in Thailand? Did it happen to you? Do you have a suspicion how it happened?

I use my card regularly in shops and restaurants in Thailand and online with, what I think, reputable companies. But obviously there can always be that one bad apple.

2 years ago, we used my VISA card to charge airline tickets...then I read that the ransomeware hackers had obtained data on 5-million workers and users of that airline but that the owner refused to pay them so I do not know if that data was released or if some other hacker stole my data but then a few days later I was advised by my bank of two suspicious charges on my acct but that they had frozen them.  Yes not my charges at all.  Same story, cancelled immediately my card and then had to wait 6 weeks or so to get a new card.  But that is the only time I have had a problem.  Fraud office at bank does contact me often though, so no I advise them of anything out of the ordinary that I will be charging or out of this country.  Good luck to all.

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Lived here for 24 years and both wife and I have Thai credit cards.

Wife was scammed once.

It was just after I booked a flight with SriLankan Airlines, for her to meet me in Colombo. (She had a larger credit limit just for flights.)

Within 12 hours, the card's details were used to buy items in a number of shops in San Francisco.

It was spotted and I got the transactions reversed.

Sure, but had to ring the bank, go through security questions, cancel the card, order a new card, wait on the post, activate the new card. 

 

Virtual card with 2FA for every new transaction, and if ever compromised, or expiring, you cancel your old virtual card and generate a new card yourself within seconds.  

 

I haven't entered the number / details of a physical plastic card anywhere on the internet for a long time. 

[KhunHeineken]

40 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

I am not sure how that helps to stop fraud.

There are no limits on the amount of virtual cards you can generate.  Obviously, if you were generating 100 a day it would raise suspicion and probably breach their fair use policy. 

 

Using your example here's how they can stop fraud.  There are two ways. 

 

Firstly, you enter your virtual card number with Sri Lankan Airlines.  It's a new merchant so triggers 2FA.  This means you have to authorize the payment with a code.  Say someone dodgy at Sri Lankan Airlines sells your virtual card details to someone in San Francisco, firstly, there's no magnetic strip to clone, but if they go shopping online it triggers the 2FA.  So, straight away you know someone is trying to use your card details.  Cancel the card immediately and generate a new one and you are up and running again.  No messing around with a bank and postage.

 

Second, say you are about to buy something from an online seller that could be dodgy.  You purchase the item and cancel the card straight away.  They still get their money and you get the item, but the virtual card is canceled seconds after you give it to the possibly dodgy website.  You generate a new one and within seconds are up and running again.  You can use pre paid Visa / Master Cards for this, like I used to, but with a virtual card you do it all from home.  

 

As an extra safety, I only move the amount of money for the item I am buying onto the virtual card before I buy the item. 

 

In your example, say the Sri Lankan Airlines flights were 20,000 baht.  You move 20,000 baht from your savings account onto the virtual card and buy your flights.  Then, the scammer in San Francisco gets "insufficient funds" for any attempted purchasing.  

 

40 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

The only time that my wife's card was scammed, was after I had made an online booking for a flight.

No physical card was involved.

I only use the credit card online.

For shopping, I always use cash.

Times are changing. 

 

Scammers are becoming more sophisticated. 

 

If you wanted to, as mentioned above, and within reason, after every single online transaction you can generate a new virtual card.  That's something you can't do with a bank. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

45 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

They are nothing new.  They have been around for a while. 

 

They work the same way as entering the card number, your name, expiry date, and CVV into any online payment system, except there is no plastic card. 

 

They are popular in the USA, not so much in other countries because their banks are not offering them.

 

At any point if you see your virtual card may be compromised, within seconds you have canceled the old one and generated a new virtual card.  Same thing when the virtual card is due to expire, you just generate another one.  No postage or plastic involved.  

 

WISE is popular with expats in Thailand.  WISE do virtual cards. 

 

Read more about it here.

 

https://wise.com/gb/virtual-card/

Thanks, interesting, I will look at the details.

Do you know if these "cards" are widely accepted in Thailand in shops and online?

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, I never heard about a virtual credit card. Can you write some more about that?

Just reread your post.  I only have a virtual debit card.  I'm not sure if you can get a virtual credit card.

 

I have posted how I use it. 

[KhunHeineken]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, interesting, I will look at the details.

Do you know if these "cards" are widely accepted in Thailand in shops and online?

I don't carry a virtual card on my phone.  I don't do any financial transactions on my phone at all, so can't speak about shops.  I have never paid with a physical card in a shop, restaurant, hotel etc, and I am the same with the virtual card.   

 

Mine is Visa, and is accepted by every online merchant that excepts a physical plastic Visa card.   Flights, Agoda (hotels) etc, no problem.  It's the same as sitting in front of your PC with the plastic card entering the details. 

[ChipButty]

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, I never heard about a virtual credit card. Can you write some more about that?

https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/payments/commercial-cards/what-is-a-virtual-credit-card-and-how-does-it-work

[ChipButty]

Sometime last year my wife went to get something, and she dint have enough cash on here so she used her Debit card, 10 transactions in one day, she had it set to anything less than 3000 baht no need for the SMS, now it's set to zero,

Luckily the bank gave her all the money back, Obviously she knew exactly where it have been used which she reported to the bank, as far as I know nothing was ever done about it, even though the bank had all the details, 

[msbkk]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:22 PM, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Many restaurants or small shops, soapy parlours, bars or even some 7-11 have crooked staff who manage to steal the details with customer credit cards.

 

Not to forget the thieves with RFID high power scanners that fit in a pocket and who can get your credit card details only by comming close to you and it's very easy in a packed area. To avoid this, make sure your wallet is one of the latest generation made in anti RFID protected material.

 

No point in arguing.

 

The safest method to move around in Thailand is cash and to avoid credit card theft. Next I would consider to pay via QR code on the phone but that can have risks also.

 

Cash. Cash and Cash when in Thailand.

 

For internet purchase always purchase COD and never put any credit card details in a permament manner under your profile of the website.

I do use my 2 Thai credit cards nearly every day and as mentioned in my previous comment I experienced only 3 fraudulent charges within 10 years. All of them were detected and I did not loose a single Baht. The risk is quite low in my experience. So I cannot really agree to your "cash cash cash in Thailand only".

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

There are no limits on the amount of virtual cards you can generate.  Obviously, if you were generating 100 a day it would raise suspicion and probably breach their fair use policy. 

 

Using your example here's how they can stop fraud.  There are two ways. 

 

Firstly, you enter your virtual card number with Sri Lankan Airlines.  It's a new merchant so triggers 2FA.  This means you have to authorize the payment with a code.  Say someone dodgy at Sri Lankan Airlines sells your virtual card details to someone in San Francisco, firstly, there's no magnetic strip to clone, but if they go shopping online it triggers the 2FA.  So, straight away you know someone is trying to use your card details.  Cancel the card immediately and generate a new one and you are up and running again.  No messing around with a bank and postage.

 

Second, say you are about to buy something from an online seller that could be dodgy.  You purchase the item and cancel the card straight away.  They still get their money and you get the item, but the virtual card is canceled seconds after you give it to the possibly dodgy website.  You generate a new one and within seconds are up and running again.  You can use pre paid Visa / Master Cards for this, like I used to, but with a virtual card you do it all from home.  

 

As an extra safety, I only move the amount of money for the item I am buying onto the virtual card before I buy the item. 

 

In your example, say the Sri Lankan Airlines flights were 20,000 baht.  You move 20,000 baht from your savings account onto the virtual card and buy your flights.  Then, the scammer in San Francisco gets "insufficient funds" for any attempted purchasing.  

 

Times are changing. 

 

Scammers are becoming more sophisticated. 

 

If you wanted to, as mentioned above, and within reason, after every single online transaction you can generate a new virtual card.  That's something you can't do with a bank. 

 

 

Sounds good. 

In which country or at which bank is it so easy to generate or cancel virtual cards?

AFAIK K-bank offers virtual cards.  I never looked into it because I expected the usual Thai bureaucracy,  like,  "we need a hand-drawn map in blue color of your grandfathers ricefields".

The way you describe it seems really good.

[jas007]

The Apple Credit Card is interesting.  It has only the chip inside the card.  Your name is on the card itself, but nothing more. No account number, no expiration date. All the typical card information can be found in the Apple Wallet under the Apple Card information.  The card also has a virtual card number and a virtual card number expiration date that is only available when using the card online or through the phone app at a payment terminal that will accept the card. The virtual card number can be switched any time you want simply by using the app.  A replacement real card can also be requested.  
 

The Apple Card can be requested and used by anyone with an Apple phone that supports the wallet feature. The card is serviced by Goldman Sachs. It is a Mastercard. You can apply through the Apple Wallet app, and your credit is pulled only after you accept their offer. Your credit limit will depend on your credit, as usual. Using the card generates a cash back reward which varies, depending on where you use it and how you use it.  

[jayboy]

I had experience of fraud when my Thai credit card was charged with about $4000 for electricity charges in a Caribbean country.The amount appeared - online - on my credit card account and I immediately disputed the charge.The charge was then put into suspense while an inquiry was launched.This is initiated by the Thai CC company but all the work is done by Visa (in my case) or MasterCard etc internationally.About three weeks later I was told by the credit card company that the suspended charge had been removed.

 

I was never told the findings of the Visa investigation, not that it interested me much once the charge had been removed from my account.I am still however puzzled how my details were obtained given that the card had been only recently been issued and had mostly been in my safe.I recall I had used it just once with a very well known Thai supermarket chain.

 

I was phoned subsequently by a representative of the Thai CC company suggesting I should be careful with my card - not showing it to anyone, not sharing it and being careful with websites asking for details etc etc.Given the circumstance - see above - I was tempted to tell him to stick his advice where the sun don't shine.But he was polite enough so I didn't.

 

On reflection I think there is at least an outside chance that my details were stolen by someone in the Thai credit card company itself.I now rarely use it and through the app can lock it - which is pretty much its permanent state.If I do use it the companies have to be major ones with excellent reputations.

[jas007]

One time I was at the American embassy in Bangkok to get them to sign off on my income affidavit.  This was back in the day when they still did that. A guy in the waiting room next to me was there to make a sworn statement to support a credit card fraud claim.  He said someone at a grocery store somehow got his credit card info and after that $300,000.00 was charged to his account in Hong Kong.

 

I was going to ask him why he was using a card with such a high limit, but I didn’t want to be nosey.  Anyway, if I was using a physical card for everyday purchases, I’d probably have the card set for a low limit.  Big enough to use for everyday purchases, but not so high that there would be any danger if I somehow got stuck paying for a fraudulent charge. A large charge wouldn’t go through in the first place.

[khlongtoey]

often gas stations have skimmers , if anything is inserted I suppose.

[NativeBob]

since 1998.

Yes credit card fraud was way before, but I got involved than.

Since certain events the wave of credit card frauds increased four-five folds. From CA and UK.

Guess why?

 

Some simple tips:

Nobody can charge your plastic if you have 2FA - Double Factor Authorization. 

Nobody can draw money from your card if you keep them in RF wallet - $3 on AliExpress

You wouldn't loose much if you set daily limit for separate types of transactions: cash, shopping, online etc. 

 

 

[gamb00ler]

On 6/28/2024 at 11:52 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, I never heard about a virtual credit card. Can you write some more about that?

One bank in US offered virtual cards and I used them frequently.  Unfortunately, the bank dropped the service after 1-2 years.

 

The bank would let me create a virtual card that could only be used for charges to a single payee.  If I had 5 payments that I make frequently I would create 5 virtual cards, each with a unique number.  Charges on all the virtual cards would be processed as if they were made on my original credit card number.  None of those 5 businesses would know my "real" credit card number.  The virtual cards function exactly like any other credit card except that they are only valid for charges from a single business/payee.  There is no physical card so can only be used for online purchases or maybe over the phone.

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/29/2024 at 4:21 AM, msbkk said:

I do use my 2 Thai credit cards nearly every day and as mentioned in my previous comment I experienced only 3 fraudulent charges within 10 years. All of them were detected and I did not loose a single Baht. The risk is quite low in my experience. So I cannot really agree to your "cash cash cash in Thailand only".

The think is, you never know when the 4th fraudulent transaction may happen, and if it's successful, and cleans out the account, you've got some problems.

 

The less you use your card the better.