Credit card fraud - does that happen often in Thailand or with Thai credit cards?

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/29/2024 at 6:01 AM, Lorry said:

Sounds good. 

In which country or at which bank is it so easy to generate or cancel virtual cards?

AFAIK K-bank offers virtual cards.  I never looked into it because I expected the usual Thai bureaucracy,  like,  "we need a hand-drawn map in blue color of your grandfathers ricefields".

The way you describe it seems really good.

Like I posted before, probably the easiest virtual card many members of AN can get is a WISE virtual card.  WISE is popular with expats in Thailand.  Sign into your account and you'll have one in a couple of minutes.  They are free, and you can make a new one anytime you think the number may have been compromised. 

 

Here's the link for K-Banks virtual card.  I have no experience with K-Bank's virtual cards, but will check it out.  I would think they work the same way as every other virtual card. 

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/kplus/instruction/virtual-debit-card-1-e-sa

[OneMoreFarang]

It seems a couple of people here had fraudulent charges. But it also seems all of us got their money back.

So, it seems all together nobody of us lost any money because of credit card fraud.

That's not too bad.

[Lorry]

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Like I posted before, probably the easiest virtual card many members of AN can get is a WISE virtual card.  WISE is popular with expats in Thailand.  Sign into your account and you'll have one in a couple of minutes.  They are free, and you can make a new one anytime you think the number may have been compromised. 

 

Here's the link for K-Banks virtual card.  I have no experience with K-Bank's virtual cards, but will check it out.  I would think they work the same way as every other virtual card. 

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/kplus/instruction/virtual-debit-card-1-e-sa

In the meantime,  I inquired in my home country and in one more country. 

Both don't have what you describe, there "virtual debit cards" are completely different things. 

What is called a "virtual debit card" differs from country to country. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems a couple of people here had fraudulent charges. But it also seems all of us got their money back.

So, it seems all together nobody of us lost any money because of credit card fraud.

That's not too bad.

Yes, a good result, however, many people have lost money, and have had legal battle with banks over disputed transactions.  Once again, you have to deal with the bank.  Ring them or wait in a queue.  Cancel the card.  Wait on the post for a new card.  Activate the card. 

 

With the virtual cards, you just delete the current one and generate another one.  Job done in a couple of minutes. 

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, Lorry said:

In the meantime,  I inquired in my home country and in one more country. 

Both don't have what you describe, there "virtual debit cards" are completely different things. 

What is called a "virtual debit card" differs from country to country. 

 

If you have WISE, try their virtual card.

[msbkk]

9 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The think is, you never know when the 4th fraudulent transaction may happen, and if it's successful, and cleans out the account, you've got some problems.

 

The less you use your card the better. 

Nobody can clean out an account of a credit card so easily. First of all for all transactions I receive a message of the bank immediately. And at the end of the billing period there will be an invoice coming. It is not difficult to dispute the transaction or block it immediately after it happens. A credit card is quite safe. A debit card is however not safe. I agree however that the virtual cards are a good payment solution, I do use the one from Kasikorn by myself, but only for certain transactions.

[KhunHeineken]

On 7/2/2024 at 1:20 PM, msbkk said:

Nobody can clean out an account of a credit card so easily. First of all for all transactions I receive a message of the bank immediately. And at the end of the billing period there will be an invoice coming. It is not difficult to dispute the transaction or block it immediately after it happens. A credit card is quite safe. A debit card is however not safe. I agree however that the virtual cards are a good payment solution, I do use the one from Kasikorn by myself, but only for certain transactions.

Easy or not, why take the risk? 

 

It does happen, and members have posted their experiences of fraud attempts / successes on their card/s.

 

Using virtual cards doesn't mitigate the risk 100%, but they make getting a new "card" easier than a physical plastic card.  You get a new virtual card in seconds, so on that basis, they can be used in different ways, along with 2FA, to get as close as possible to 100% risk free.  Eg.  make a new virtual card, enable 2FA, move just enough money onto the card to buy that item online, buy the item, cancel the virtual card.  All you ever will be able to lose is the value of the item you want to purchase and nothing more.    

[puck2]

On 6/27/2024 at 9:06 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

<---->

The fraudster tried to use two other credit cards before he used my card. It seems that set of some alarm at the banks.

So, the good news is that I didn't lose any money and I know where it happened.

I don't know who stole my credit card data and I guess I will never find out.

<----->

 

If "the fraudster tried to use 2 other credit cards", then there is my question: cards issued by the same bank???

 

Is YES, then they shloud surch the fraudster in the bank of your account. Or maybe in the area of the company printing these cards.

[OneMoreFarang]

31 minutes ago, puck2 said:

 

If "the fraudster tried to use 2 other credit cards", then there is my question: cards issued by the same bank???

 

Is YES, then they shloud surch the fraudster in the bank of your account. Or maybe in the area of the company printing these cards.

 

The owner of the shop where my card was used sent me a screenshot from their system.

I can see that two VISA cards were used before my VISA card was used.

Were the other cards also from Thailand and from the same bank? I don't know. But considering how many visa cards are out there probably not.

 

Credit Card Market Share Statistics | Bankrate

"At the end of 2021, Visa market share was the largest, at about 48 percent, based on the number of credit cards in circulation (753 million), followed by Mastercard market share, at roughly 36 percent."

 

 

 

[bamnutsak]

On 6/28/2024 at 11:52 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, I never heard about a virtual credit card. Can you write some more about that?

 

 

FWIW, Google Wallet can use the virtual card scheme (on my phone, using Tap to Pay), and/or within Chrome for online purchases.

 

 

[bamnutsak]

Can confirm Google Wallet works fine here, anywhere Tap to Pay is an option.

 

Credit card number "charged" is "virtual".

 

This is "yuge".

 

 

[AsiaTraveler1234]

The safest way to pay is to load your credit card into a digital wallet app like Apple Pay or Google Wallet, then tap and pay with your phone. Best way to reduce risk of credit card fraud.

[Andyfez]

To date I've had no problems. 

However I recently bought a phone from a well known shop in a regular shopping mall. He took the payment on one machine where I put my pin in, and then casually slid it through another machine to his right. I questioned this and he claimed it was to raise the receipt. 

I still don't know if he told the truth or not. I'm not sure how to verify it.

[Korat Kiwi]

In 30 years I've never had a problem.  That all changed 2 days ago.  I have a small amount in a NZ account ($3400).

 

Monday morning I checked to see what the balance was... $1.31 WTF! 

 

Straight onto the banks website and urgent email sent to them.  A lot of emails later and they rang me yesterday to go thru the normal security questions. 

 

There were 2 online transactions to a well known NZ appliance store. 1st transaction was $2750, apparently they tried a $3000 transaction but as there were insufficient funds it was denied.  The other transaction for $1650 went through. 

 

The bank called me yesterday and have arranged for a new card and have put in a charge back onto the merchant shop. 

 

Today I got an email from the bank saying the charge back will take between 7-30 working days.  But at least I will get my money back. 

 

I hope the shop chases up the a hole who placed the orders... Invite the police to attend as well. 

 

All in all it was quite a shock, but mastercard has in their T&C that if you can prove fraudulent transactions they guarantee 100% refund of your money. 

 

I'm using Wise card here and don't have a problem but will check out their virtual card. 

[Dickp]

I have two Thai BK debit cards and the wife has the same number but not same accounts. I also have two US credit cards one a small limit and the other with high limit. I only use the US CC small one  for US online shopping and the larger one at one place only THai Hospital.  Last year I needed to top up my prepaid phone  and my Thai cards were not set for online shopping so I use my small  US CC to top up the phone. in lest 3-4 hours I received a mgs on my phone about 3 fraudulent transaction (not on line purchase's ) in the US  the card was used in three different states with minutes. CC company froze the card asked to call and they told me about purchase in question . I told them I'm right here in Thailand. They cancelled the card and it took 6 weeks to get a replacement. I know the only place the card was used in 6 months was that online  top up of my phone one of the Marjory phone companies here. Called them but it just inform them that they most likely had a bad actor working for them. Lesson learned Not to use my US CC for shopping in Thailand. As for the Hospital 34 years of using my US CC and no problems.

[koolkarl]

Have resided here for more than 20 years.  Have only foreign credit cards and rarely use them in Thailand, except online. The few times I have used a credit card in Thailand, more times than not, a fraud occurred so cash it is for me.

[RayWright]

Have a UK Credit Card which I use solely for travel expenses, i.e. Flights, Car Hire and Hotels. Otherwise I use a Debit Card for everything else, so in Thailand then K-Bank.

 

In the 3 years I've been in Thailand my UK Credit card has had to be re-issued 5 times due to "fraudulent activity". Bit annoying, as takes on average 7 to 8 weeks for a new card to arrive. Did courier the last refresh, however the courier company couldn't deliver as Condo name and contact number weren't displayed on the delivery address. Took 2 weeks to arrive from their Chonburi sorting office, needless to say the Condo name was on the address, and I updated them with my Thai mobile, which when they delivered they didn't use. TIT. As to general purchases using my Thai Debit card, never had an issue, says a lot for the QR code system they use at the POS (Point of Sale).

 

Hotels I use tend to be a big American International Chain (collect the points), who have numerous franchises. Interestingly, the card number with the most "fraudulent activity" tends to be the original Card Number which is on my profile, never the current one, which I use in person on settling the bill on departure. For deposits, always pay in cash, that way there is no pre-auth activity and POS or reservations computer system printout or stored record of the card number. (Certain Hotels prefer to store the card number details for the deposits return, as easier than crediting back using the original Credit Card Transaction number, as this tends to be a manual process and usually means a phone call to the Credit Card merchant).

 

Despite having 2FA enabled by my Credit Card Company, the use by someone using a former card number triggers the security alert. Which back home wouldn't be an issue, as new card arrives in 3 days. Best to be safe than sorry. Also so far, my issues have been "activity", rather than "charges". If you can, best to have Transaction Activity enabled (SMS Alerting) if your Card issuer offers this service.

 

Despite how careful you are, there are always nefarious individuals trying to scam and rob you.

[NedR69]

Twice in the last 12 months one of my Credit cards had attempted fraudulent activity.  The first was a Chase Sapphire card, used at a pet store in Khon Kaen.  SMS from Chase Bank, Y or N - this was a N for no I do not recognize the charge.  <72 hours a new one was delivered to my house in Chonburi Province.  Second card had same scenario, but from Shopee.  I know it was Shopee because it was the first time I'd try to use that card in over two years.  This bank sent replacement and about ~14 days later, a new one arrives.  Both cards were issued from US Banks.  I never worry much about potential fraud except for the inconvenience of having to change the auto-pay info when the new credit card is received. 

 

Debit / ATM cards??  I have two separate US banks with accounts for the debit cards.  They are for emergencies and I only use the ATMs inside a BK bank to make a cash withdrawal...and only for emergencies.  I never use my Debit / ATM for purchase, only for cash withdrawals at a bank's ATM.

 

My BK bank atm card, yea I use that for QR scan, pay at Makro, etc and getting cash at the bank.  No idea how fraud would work with it, but my losses would be minimized by keeping a low THB balance.

 

When I go out, I never take all the cards with me unless I'm leaving the country.  And when I do have them all with me, the bag/purse/bill-fold each have a separate card.  If one purse/wallet is lost or stolen, I have at least one back-up location with a CC and a Debit card.

[OneMoreFarang]

It seems some people here prefer debit cards.

Maybe I am missing something, but I think credit cards are better than debit cards.

If there is a fraudulent charge, with the debit card it is directly deducted from the account. With a credit card it will be on the credit card bill and will not be automatically deducted.

[rickudon]

I have only had my credit card cloned once, and that was in the UK 25 years ago when i bought a new car from a showroom!

In Thailand, i only use my credit card to get cash from the bank or in Lotus or BigC, rarely anywhere else. Maybe online to buy flights (to get CC protection). I also keep a spare card in case the main one is compromised, because my UK bank will not send overseas, and last time i had it forwarded, never arrived (needed new card because old one expired).

[jas007]

Virtual cards seem to be growing in popularity.  I’ve never paid much attention, but I think two of my cards have that as a feature.  
 

My Apple Card is both a physical card and a card that’s contained in the wallet in my IPhone. Each has a different account number. I’m not sure how they do it, but you can generate new account numbers anytime you want, right in the Apple Card app in the wallet. The only drawback is that if you have auto payments set up with anyone using a particular card number, you’ll have to change the number for that payment. 
 

Anyway, I try not to use credit cards at all, with the exception of using one to book hotel rooms and flights online.  

[MrJ2U]

Fraud with credit cards can happen everywhere.  Bring at least two credit cards.   If one is compromised,report it have a new one sent out FedEx.  

 

In my experience it only took 48 hours for a new one to arrive from the US.  Any fraudulent charges were refunded.

 

 

 

 

[Skeptic7]

Not a Thai cc, but use a Capital One (US) credit card for nearly everything here (and around the world)...shopping, dining, petrol, online including Lazada. Use it everywhere a card is accepted without any additional vendor add-on fee. Never had any problem. 

[Captor]

On 6/29/2024 at 4:27 AM, KhunHeineken said:

They are nothing new.  They have been around for a while. 

 

They work the same way as entering the card number, your name, expiry date, and CVV into any online payment system, except there is no plastic card. 

 

They are popular in the USA, not so much in other countries because their banks are not offering them.

 

At any point if you see your virtual card may be compromised, within seconds you have canceled the old one and generated a new virtual card.  Same thing when the virtual card is due to expire, you just generate another one.  No postage or plastic involved.  

 

WISE is popular with expats in Thailand.  WISE do virtual cards. 

 

Read more about it here.

 

https://wise.com/gb/virtual-card/

But IF you after all get scammed with a virtual card will then the money be reversed same as banks credit cards are being mostly?

[Satcommlee]

Cover the cvv (3 digits) on back of card with black tape, have you noticed how many vendors record this info when it is none of their business!

[Yellowtail]

I have Thai and a few US cards, for over twenty years and I only remember one fraudulent charge, and that was on a US card I used in Mexico. The reversed the charge, canceled the card and mailed out a new one overnight to my hotel. 

 

Only issue I had in Thailand was when I bought something, it was broken, and the vendor would not take it back. Citi reversed the charge. 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 7/26/2024 at 8:33 PM, Satcommlee said:

Cover the cvv (3 digits) on back of card with black tape, have you noticed how many vendors record this info when it is none of their business!

Interesting point on my most recent Thai card. There is no ccv on the card, it is only available on the app and only for 45 seconds at a time.

[BigStar]

Never a problem w/ my Thai credit card over the last 20 years. However, I only use it for online purchases w/ the big e-commerce companies--through the web.

 

Otherwise, cash only for me.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Interesting point on my most recent Thai card. There is no ccv on the card, it is only available on the app and only for 45 seconds at a time.

Really, what card is that? Great feature.

 

Is it always the same CCV or a new one each time? 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Interesting point on my most recent Thai card. There is no ccv on the card, it is only available on the app and only for 45 seconds at a time.

In the past I always had cards with the 16 digit number on the front of the card,, and the ccv on the back of the card.

Until Citibank had the glorious idea to show no number on the front and all numbers on the back...