Fire sparks chaos: Lithium battery turns van to ashes in Chon Buri

[Lacessit]

Just now, Georgealbert said:

5555 now digging and deflection.

 

That is called development, hence why research is carried out and operational/safety guidance amended and updated to reflect those developments.

 

Also EV manufacturers work with bodies like the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) on guidance.

 

https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/emergency-response/emergency-response-guides#aq=%40culture%3D"en"&cq=%40taglistingpage%3D%3D("EV Guides") &numberOfResults=12&sortCriteria=%40title ascending

You just don't get it, do you?  It's a question of scale.

 

In my younger days as a chemist, I synthesized nitroglycerine. About 0.5 millilitres of it. i followed the instructions exactly.

 

That does not mean I felt competent or experienced enough to start making litres of it.

 

The deflection seems to be coming from you. In referring to Li-ion fires, where I am specifically asking if you have fought a EV fire.

 

I doubt you ever have, because I am reasonably sure you would be describing the experience in detail.

[Georgealbert]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

You just don't get it, do you?  It's a question of scale.

 

In my younger days as a chemist, I synthesized nitroglycerine. About 0.5 millilitres of it. i followed the instructions exactly.

 

That does not mean I felt competent or experienced enough to start making litres of it.

 

The deflection seems to be coming from you. In referring to Li-ion fires, where I am specifically asking if you have fought a EV fire.

 

I doubt you ever have, because I am reasonably sure you would be describing the experience in detail.

No it is not a question of scale, read the research I posted, and how the test fires were modelled and recorded.

 

I clearly stated, yes I have dealt with EV and Li-ion fires and also worked on guidance about EVs and Li-ion batteries. You do understand that the risks with Li-ion batteries is a lot bigger than just EVs. 
 

I don’t need to boost about my experiences, I don’t suffer from your superiority complex, I just leave that to someone who calls themself a chemist, that synthesised nitroglycerine, which has no relevance to this at all.

 

I posted the research and you not only failed to believe it you have also posted zero links to anything that proves your point.

 

Remember your first post in the thread “t's worth noting a fire hose was ineffective in extinguishing the fire. Just as well it did not occur in an enclosed space, such as undercover parking.”, which was totally wrong, as the fire was extinguished using water hose-line and the vehicle was not an EV, but don’t let the truth and facts get in the way of you alternative reality.

[Georgealbert]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Yeah lithium is the go.

 

I run 14.8v Jag35 batteries in two of my vehicles solely for the stereo system.

 

I think this van had something like this installed, as the owner is reported as saying in the Thai media, 

 

“He confirmed that no modifications were made to the van’s audio system or other parts, apart from the installation of the lithium battery for air conditioning purposes. The van was used exclusively for personal use.”

 

https://workpointnews.com/around/news/NTV9918

[Robert Paulson]

Isn’t one sitting on an entire bed of these batteries in an ev car?

[KannikaP]

On 6/29/2024 at 8:03 AM, JBChiangRai said:

You're forgetting that EV's are between 11 and 130 times less likely to catch fire than an ICE car

Please explain these figures and their source, thanks.

[Ralf001]

7 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

I think this van had something like this installed, as the owner is reported as saying in the Thai media, 

 

“He confirmed that no modifications were made to the van’s audio system or other parts, apart from the installation of the lithium battery for air conditioning purposes. The van was used exclusively for personal use.”

 

https://workpointnews.com/around/news/NTV9918

 

Yes and likely as mention by JBchaingrai.... Connect direct to the vehicle's 12V lead acid battery to charge.

 

Mine are charged DC to DC using a Redarc 40a charger.

[Ralf001]

Just now, Robert Paulson said:

Isn’t one sitting on an entire bed of these batteries in an ev car?

yeah but typically not a back yard install by Somchai's Auto leccy shop. 

[Georgealbert]

6 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Yes and likely as mention by JBchaingrai.... Connect direct to the vehicle's 12V lead acid battery to charge.

 

Mine are charged DC to DC using a Redarc 40a charger.

Yes, poorly self installed battery seems to have started the fire, then the fire developed like any other Toyota Commuter, diesel van.

[Georgealbert]

10 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Isn’t one sitting on an entire bed of these batteries in an ev car?

Yes, but this was not an EV involved in this fire.
 

Could you also say, isn’t one sitting in front of a tank of highly flammable liquid/gas in an ICE or LPG car?

[watchcat]

3 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

It was not an EV, just a self installed battery for the AC, so I would assume it was easy to access and see the flame.

 

Yes, but would it not been installed in the engine compartment?

[Georgealbert]

35 minutes ago, watchcat said:

 

Yes, but would it not been installed in the engine compartment?

Yes maybe, but he had pulled over and only had to open the cover between/under the seats.

 

It is not conclusive but the picture below seems to show the fire developing from either between/under the seats or under the dashboard.

Note all the doors open to feed oxygen to the fire.

 

Edited Sunday at 03:51 AM by Georgealbert

[JBChiangRai]

55 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Please explain these figures and their source, thanks.

 

I did one page previously.

[watchcat]

20 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Yes maybe, but he had pulled over and only had to open the cover between the seats.

 

 

Note all the doors open to feed oxygen to the fire.

 

 

"He explained that while driving to run errands, he detected a burning smell and decided to pull over to the side of the road. He then called a mechanic to schedule an inspection and repair. "

Perhaps he had a peek anyway before or fter the call?

[Georgealbert]

1 minute ago, watchcat said:

 

"He explained that while driving to run errands, he detected a burning smell and decided to pull over to the side of the road. He then called a mechanic to schedule an inspection and repair."

Perhaps he had a peek anyway before or after the call?

 

Yes not clear from the reporting, I know I would have look.

[neverere]

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

The reality is that those stats are a statistical manipulation. More EVs burn than ICE - but there are so many more ICE vehicles that the total numbers are incomparable. But the fact is that EVs (L-I batteries) burn far hotter, far longer, and emit far more toxic smoke - the damage from an EV fire is vastly more than a fire in an ICE vehicle.  I will never take a long ferry ride with my vehicle in Thailand or anywhere else. A short trip is OK, but an over-nighter with a potential EV fire than can sink the ship, is a genuine concern. Especially when Somchai can and does install things himself to 'make it better'. 

EVs are early days and I am sure over time they will develop a solution to the fires issue - but I also know that there is a concerted (if misguided) push to get everyone to buy EVs to 'save the planet' - which means negatives like this about EVs will not be 'publicised' as much as they should. The PR should be greater, both to warn people, and to also make the developers solve the problem quickly.

These negatives will not be publicised because they are fictitious.

[neverere]

6 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

The stats have been posted probably about a dozen times now on these forums, but I'll post them again, just for special you.  The figures are how often a car with an ICE engine under the bonnet catches fire compared to a pure EV, figures are per 100,000 sales so are harmonised to the fact there are more ICE vehicles on the road.

 

Sweden 147 times more likely (3400/23)

Petrol and diesel cars 20 times more likely to catch fire than EVs (thedriven.io)

 

Singapore 118 times more likely (356/3)

EV fire cases rise with growing adoption of such cars | The Straits Times

 

Australia 98 times more likely (393/4)

Electric vehicle fires are very rare. The risk for petrol and diesel vehicles is at least 20 times higher (theconversation.com)

 

America 199 times more likely (5004/25.1)

Government data show gasoline vehicles are up to 100x more prone to fires than EVs | Electrek

 

 

 

Do you not have any articles from a credible source? 

Do electric cars pose a greater fire risk than petrol or diesel vehicles? | Automotive industry | The Guardian

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

The reality is that those stats are a statistical manipulation. More EVs burn than ICE - but there are so many more ICE vehicles that the total numbers are incomparable.

 

Nonsense.  More ICE burn than EV's, and the stats I posted were harmonised per 100,000 vehicles to take account of the higher volume of ICE

 

 

 

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Yet the fact remains that BEV's are massively less likely to catch fire than a legacy car.

It is certainly not a fact, one is just as likely to catch fire as the other when subjected to a can of petrol and a match.

Statistics are the fall back for those that want to channel their perspective in a certain direction. The main weapon in any politicians arsenal and mainly used to avoid the root problem.

[JBChiangRai]

22 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Yet the fact remains that BEV's are massively less likely to catch fire than a legacy car.

 

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is certainly not a fact, one is just as likely to catch fire as the other when subjected to a can of petrol and a match.

Statistics are the fall back for those that want to channel their perspective in a certain direction. The main weapon in any politicians arsenal and mainly used to avoid the root problem.

 

I quoted statistics from 4 independent sources for 4 countries.

 

You're welcome to post statistics to substantiate your fiction argument, if you can?

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

I quoted statistics from 4 independent sources for 4 countries.

 

You're welcome to post statistics to substantiate your fiction argument, if you can?

If you want to believe that when subjected to a can of petrol and a match,  the BEV will not catch fire,  that is entirely up to you.

[sandyf]

The OP highlights the potential danger in trying to store electrical energy, rapid discharge can have disasterous consequences,

Batteries are effectively a non starter as an alternative power source for the aviation industry, they are looking into alternative fuel. I suspect years ago the motor industry came under pressure from the oil industry not to go down that path.

Where will the EV industry be if in a few years time the motor industry starts to move back to a more acceptable fuel based power unit.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 hours ago, neverere said:

These negatives will not be publicised because they are fictitious.

Easy to find if you look for them.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Nonsense.  More ICE burn than EV's, and the stats I posted were harmonised per 100,000 vehicles to take account of the higher volume of ICE

Do you mean raging burnt to the ground fires - or fires that are isolated to the engine - or fires after severe crashes - or fires accidently started by the occupants. If you are - then you are talking nonsense.  Let me say this - maybe think about it - ICE cars parked somewhere dont suddenly burn to the ground.  

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Do you mean raging burnt to the ground fires - or fires that are isolated to the engine - or fires after severe crashes - or fires accidently started by the occupants. If you are - then you are talking nonsense.  Let me say this - maybe think about it - ICE cars parked somewhere dont suddenly burn to the ground.  

 

Actually, they do.

[G_Money]

So much for “Green “.

 

Another hoax/fad.

 

FOLLOW the money.

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Let me say this - maybe think about it - ICE cars parked somewhere dont suddenly burn to the ground.  

They most certainly do. A number of examples of such fires occurring in Thailand have been posted on this forum within the last six months or so. 

 

Also, both the Luton airport and Liverpool Echo Arena car park fires, that destroyed around 1,500 vehicles each, were started by parked ICE vehicles that caught fire. 

 

About 1,400 cars destroyed in Liverpool car park fire

 

Quote

Blaze broke out in an old Land Rover before rapidly spreading to nearby vehicles.

 

Luton Airport car park fire that destroyed 1,500 vehicles was accidental, fire service report says

 

Quote

While the owner of the diesel car tried to fight the fire, the vehicle was overrun with flames and the fire spread to other parked cars, it said.

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

53 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Actually, they do.

I will do the lefty thing on this - proof please with verified links.

I have seen/read many EV fires, but very few ICE fires. 

And no ICE fires when the car is parked and 'cold'.

[Georgealbert]

31 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

They most certainly do. A number of examples of such fires occurring in Thailand have been posted on this forum within the last six months or so. 

 

Also, both the Luton airport  and Liverpool Echo Arena car park fires, that destroyed around 1,500 vehicles each, were started by parked ICE vehicles that caught fire. 

 

About 1,400 cars destroyed in Liverpool car park fire

 

 

Luton Airport car park fire that destroyed 1,500 vehicles was accidental, fire service report says

 

 

 

Thanks, great post, but some posters will never believe it and will just claim conspiracy or cover you.

 

Here is the link to the full Liverpool fire report, still awaiting the final luton report.

 

https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2018/12/Merseyside-FRS-Car-Park-Report.pdf

 

Another car fire occurred at Stavanger Airport in Norway and one of the conclusions by the research body is below.

 

http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1507286/FULLTEXT01.pdf

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:10 PM by Georgealbert

[TroubleandGrumpy]

26 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

They most certainly do. A number of examples of such fires occurring in Thailand have been posted on this forum within the last six months or so. 

Also, both the Luton airport and Liverpool Echo Arena car park fires, that destroyed around 1,500 vehicles each, were started by parked ICE vehicles that caught fire. 

About 1,400 cars destroyed in Liverpool car park fire

Luton Airport car park fire that destroyed 1,500 vehicles was accidental, fire service report says

I will point out that the first one was an 'accidental fire' caused by the occupants (does not state what they did to cause the fire - smoking?), and the second fire was a moving (hot) vehicle that the owner was driving (hot).  Both were very old ICE cars I believe and who knows what work had been done over the years.  I am referring to EV cars that spontaneously ignite while parked and cold - such as on that shiop.

Porsche EV battery blamed for ship fire in Mitsui O.S.K. lawsuit - Nikkei Asia

Electric Cars Have One Problem: They Keep Lighting People's Houses on Fire (futurism.com)

 

Yes they both burn - but ICE fires can be contained - EV fires cannot be stopped and they are much more toxic too. 

   

[Georgealbert]

11 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I will do the lefty thing on this - proof please with verified links.

I have seen/read many EV fires, but very few ICE fires. 

And no ICE fires when the car is parked and 'cold'.

He has early in the thread, try reading it instead of posting you unqualified conspiracy nonsense.