Zelensky Challenges Trump on War Plans, Decries Weapons Delays

[candide]

No need to have a look at RT News, It's been already diffused in this thread! 😃

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

how will you know if you don't got to the negotiating table? i'm guessing you're happy to send yourself, your kids and other family members to fight  for Ukraine if needed..you know, seeing as you feel so strongly...

Putin has repeatedly said he wants to restore the Soviet Union to its former glory. That means all the way to a divided Germany, and the whole of Eastern Europe under the Russian yoke again.

 

You are in fantasy land if you think he will stop at Ukraine. Any temporary peace will simply be used by Russia to rebuild their war machine.

[Tug]

14 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You dodged the question. Are you OK with the US spending 50,000 soldiers's lives to reclaim the Russian occupied part of Ukraine? Or more if the war expands?

 

Ukraine asked for help. We obliged. It stopped the invasion from engulfing the entire country. Mission accomplished.

Firstly the USA doesent use human wave tactics if it did happen im sure we would just destroy putins war machine sink his navy and indirect all of his supply’s.i have a question for you are you ok with putin withdrawing from all of Ukraine?do you think putin is waging an aggressive war of conquest against his neighbor?do you think putin is a criminal despot?

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

But , even if a peace deal is concluded , and Trump wins the elections and pulls the US out of Nato , Putin might " jump on this occasion "  and annex more parts of Ukraine or neighboring countries , as the remaining NATO members are not able to defend themselves against Russia without the help of the US .

LOL.

 

Please point out where Trump has said he will pull the US out of NATO, LOL.

As for the remaining countries in NATO "not able to defend themselves against Russia without the help of the US ." LOL.

At least 2 countries have nukes and ballistic missile subs. MAD will not die without the US, and frankly, I have no idea why you are even posting that Trump would pull the US out of NATO.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 
Please don't misunderstand or deliberately misinterpret what I said. It was NOT the Ukrainian people's fault - it was the good 'Ole USA's fault. I think the outcome will be:

Ukraine is neutral, with no NATO but some sort of security deal; Russia keeps Crimea, and Donbas becomes a 'special territory' with some autonomy, OR Russia keeps it. Instead of just trolling, what do YOU think the outcome will be?

Don't hold your breath waiting.

Edited July 5 by thaibeachlovers

[Stargeezr]

The poster who says that Ukraine is a radio active mess, is putting out false imformation.

  I think this is disgusting and should not be allowed on this forum.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

The outcome of the war in Ukraine depends very much on the outcome of the presidential elections in the US .

Even if Biden won, the west is running out of money to spend on bullets for Ukraine when their own economies are devastated, and the citizens get restless. Starmer has made expensive promises,

[Luuk Chaai]

19 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

 Zelensky isn't going to like the answer.

 

I'll help you out here ........   F*** Zelensky !

stop all funding  and start freezing assests...

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Putin has repeatedly said he wants to restore the Soviet Union to its former glory. That means all the way to a divided Germany, and the whole of Eastern Europe under the Russian yoke again.

 

You are in fantasy land if you think he will stop at Ukraine. Any temporary peace will simply be used by Russia to rebuild their war machine.

Explain how Putin can take Germany and other NATO countries.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, frank83628 said:

how will you know if you don't got to the negotiating table? i'm guessing you're happy to send yourself, your kids and other family members to fight  for Ukraine if needed..you know, seeing as you feel so strongly...

I've been waiting for the pro war members on this sub forum to announce their departure for Ukraine, but I haven't seen a single one do so. Isn't that strange?

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Agree.  There's little doubt in my mind Trump will dump Ukraine/support Russia, and I have little faith in Europeans' ability to commit to anything hard-power related.

There's little doubt in my mind Trump will dump Ukraine

 

I have little faith in Europeans' ability to commit to anything hard-power related.

 

On the above I agree, but Trump ending Ukraine war is a good thing IMO. It's a war that should never have happened.

Who on here would like to be a man of conscriptable age in Ukraine right now?

Edited July 5 by thaibeachlovers

[Tug]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even if Biden won, the west is running out of money to spend on bullets for Ukraine when their own economies are devastated, and the citizens get restless. Starmer has made expensive promises,

Ahhh we are using less than 5% of our defense budget to give Ukraine the means to stop your putin + most of the money stays here employing folks and when are you volunteering to go fight for the Russian federation?

[animalmagic]

10 hours ago, frank83628 said:

 do you think the war started feb 22, or were you following Ukraine news prior to that?

War is an armed conflict between two or more groups of people.  The war started when Russia invaded Ukraine.  You have already stated that Zelenskiy campaigned on the basis of peace with Russia; it seems that Russia did not want peace.  Russian attempts to undermine other independent governments in various 'ex-soviet' states also cannot be classified as war until such time as war is declared or one attacks the other.

[frank83628]

4 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

War is an armed conflict between two or more groups of people.  The war started when Russia invaded Ukraine.  You have already stated that Zelenskiy campaigned on the basis of peace with Russia; it seems that Russia did not want peace.  Russian attempts to undermine other independent governments in various 'ex-soviet' states also cannot be classified as war until such time as war is declared or one attacks the other.

so nothing happened over there prior to feb 22?

[frank83628]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Putin has repeatedly said he wants to restore the Soviet Union to its former glory. That means all the way to a divided Germany, and the whole of Eastern Europe under the Russian yoke again.

 

You are in fantasy land if you think he will stop at Ukraine. Any temporary peace will simply be used by Russia to rebuild their war machine.

do you have a quote of Putin saying he wants to restore the soviet Union? 

if Putin wanted to take Ukraine why has he only concentrated in those certain areas?

 

'Any temporary peace will simply be used by Russia to rebuild their war machine'...you mean like those signing the minsk only to allow Ukraine to re-arm? as said recently stated by Merkle

 

 

 

Edited July 6 by frank83628

[frank83628]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even if Biden won, the west is running out of money to spend on bullets for Ukraine when their own economies are devastated, and the citizens get restless. Starmer has made expensive promises,

the french might take to the streets but the British wont, they will just moan about it but do nothing..unfortunately

[frank83628]

3 hours ago, Tug said:

Ahhh we are using less than 5% of our defense budget to give Ukraine the means to stop your putin + most of the money stays here employing folks and when are you volunteering to go fight for the Russian federation?

and lining the pockets of the war machine CEO's.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

do you have a quote of Putin saying he wants to restore the soviet Union? 

if Putin wanted to take Ukraine why has he only concentrated in those certain areas?

 

'Any temporary peace will simply be used by Russia to rebuild their war machine'...you mean like those signing the minsk only to allow Ukraine to re-arm? as said recently stated by Merkle

 

Did you forget his Peter the Great talk where he compares himself to Peter in a territorial push?

 

 

[stoner]

why isn't he pushing biden. i keep hearing how trump isn't going to win the election so why ask him anything. 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There's little doubt in my mind Trump will dump Ukraine

 

I have little faith in Europeans' ability to commit to anything hard-power related.

 

On the above I agree, but Trump ending Ukraine war is a good thing IMO. It's a war that should never have happened.

Who on here would like to be a man of conscriptable age in Ukraine right now?

Or worse still, who on here would like to be a man of conscriptable age in Russia right now?

[dhupverg]

4 hours ago, Tug said:

Ahhh we are using less than 5% of our defense budget to give Ukraine the means to stop your putin + most of the money stays here employing folks and when are you volunteering to go fight for the Russian federation?

Meanwhile a year later, people in Maui have gotten nothing but the middle finger from the US government.  That's a great way to treat your own citizens isn't it?  

[Hanaguma]

7 hours ago, Tug said:

Firstly the USA doesent use human wave tactics if it did happen im sure we would just destroy putins war machine sink his navy and indirect all of his supply’s.i have a question for you are you ok with putin withdrawing from all of Ukraine?do you think putin is waging an aggressive war of conquest against his neighbor?do you think putin is a criminal despot?

Fine. So how many Americans do YOU think should die to save Ukraine then?

[Lacessit]

51 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

do you have a quote of Putin saying he wants to restore the soviet Union? 

if Putin wanted to take Ukraine why has he only concentrated in those certain areas?

 

'Any temporary peace will simply be used by Russia to rebuild their war machine'...you mean like those signing the minsk only to allow Ukraine to re-arm? as said recently stated by Merkle

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481

 

IIRC you were saying eastern Ukraine is radioactive and bullet-riddled.

 

In terms of  arable land, it's the jewel in the crown. It has fed Russia and the world for centuries.

 

Putin is concentrated in those areas because the Russian war machine has to. The combination of military corruption, terrible logistics and lousy morale of undertrained and underequipped troops has seen to that. There is a serious disconnect between what is actually happening at the front, and the information Putin receives. All autocrats only get told what they want to hear.

[frank83628]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26769481

 

IIRC you were saying eastern Ukraine is radioactive and bullet-riddled.

 

In terms of  arable land, it's the jewel in the crown. It has fed Russia and the world for centuries.

 

Putin is concentrated in those areas because the Russian war machine has to. The combination of military corruption, terrible logistics and lousy morale of undertrained and underequipped troops has seen to that. There is a serious disconnect between what is actually happening at the front, and the information Putin receives. All autocrats only get told what they want to hear.

but you're got your ear to the ground and are getting better info reading online articles than Putin himself.... ok then!

 

 

is Putin quoted directly saying he want's to restore the Soviet Union?

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Did you forget his Peter the Great talk where he compares himself to Peter in a territorial push?

 

 

so thats a 'NO' then

[Lacessit]

50 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

but you're got your ear to the ground and are getting better info reading online articles than Putin himself.... ok then!

 

 

is Putin quoted directly saying he want's to restore the Soviet Union?

Actually, I am better informed than Putin. I get information from a number of sources. He only gets his from his intelligence apparatus, who are terrified of giving him bad news. It's a feature of all autocrats.

 

Putin's former KGB cadre told him the Ukrainians would welcome the Russians with open arms, and the "special military operation" would take a week. How's that for fantasy information?

 

He's compared himself to Peter the Great, and says the fall of the Soviet Union is the worst thing ever to happen to Russia. Draw your own conclusions.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

so thats a 'NO' then

Deflection.

 

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Did you forget his Peter the Great talk where he compares himself to Peter in a territorial push?

Obviously not.

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

Firstly the USA doesent use human wave tactics if it did happen im sure we would just destroy putins war machine sink his navy and indirect all of his supply’s.i have a question for you are you ok with putin withdrawing from all of Ukraine?do you think putin is waging an aggressive war of conquest against his neighbor?do you think putin is a criminal despot?

Modern military doctrine of combined arms dictates the first tactic is to establish complete air supremacy. America did it in Iraq.

 

The second factor is logistics. The US is expert in the field, the Berlin Airlift came as a huge shock to Russia. They still have not learned the lesson logistics are vital to any military operation. The column marching on Kiev ran out of fuel first, then food.

 

Russian military aircraft outnumber Ukraine's airforce by about 20 to 1. They are unable to achieve air supremacy due to inadequate pilot training, and Stinger/Javelin missiles. Their navy has been forced to leave Sevastapol, by a nation with no warships.

 

In any war between NATO or American forces, the Russian military would be obliterated. They would only have nukes left.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Luuk Chaai said:

 

I'll help you out here ........   F*** Zelensky !

stop all funding  and start freezing assests...

Another Russian bot.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Explain how Putin can take Germany and other NATO countries.

He can't. That does not mean he won't try.