Has Thailand over achieved while next door, Cambodia is complacent?

[Mekmong MICK]

Me and the girlfriend were driving up to Bangkok on Tuesday from Hua Hin and I forgot how utterly boring the drive is. It's a dullard trip. At least in Australia, when we have long boring stretches of road we put a Big Pineapple or Big Banana or Big Lobster or Ayres Rock along the road so tourists can stop and break up the drive. It's why Australia will always be better for tourists than here. I'll be chartering a helicopter next time I need to go up.

 

But then I got thinking, why has Thailand's tourism sector flourished compared to Cambodia? On face value, Cambodia has more to offer;

 

- Better and cleaner beaches and islands around Sihanoukville

- Angkor Wat which should be the 8th wonder of the world

- Mode fascinating history over multiple periods

- More opportunity for adventure and experiences away from crowds

- The same high end accommodation offerings as Thailand

- Great food and beer and cheaper prices

- The capital is right on the Mekong

 

Why hasn't Cambodia caught up to Thailand? Am I missing something obvious here? Thailand is doing a remarkable job all things considered punching above its weight division in my opinion 

[Seth1a2a]

That's the way they like it.. The donations will keep rolling in for all Cambodians , while only a select few end up rolling in the cash....

6100 donor organizations ....Japan, China, the Asian Development Bank, the World Bank and the USA are the top donors. Aid accounts for approximately 8% of Cambodian GNI and about half of the national budget.    Add to that one of the highest birth rates (approx. 2.34)  in South East Asia.

 

 

 

Yes this is relevant and similar to Myanmar it includes several top military officials as well.

 

Corruption and land issues[edit]

Main article: Corruption in Cambodia

Hun Sen and his family were estimated to have amassed between US$500 million and US$1 billion by Global Witness in 2016,^[91] and a number of allies have also accumulated considerable personal wealth during his tenure

Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hun_Sen

Edited Thursday at 05:19 PM by Seth1a2a

[Chosenfew]

Cambodia killed 2 million of their most educated citizens back in the 70’s. A lot of their children too. They still have not recovered from their stupidity. But hey, still many people love communism…

[vukovar77]

17 hours ago, Mekmong MICK said:

Me and the girlfriend were driving up to Bangkok on Tuesday from Hua Hin and I forgot how utterly boring the drive is. It's a dullard trip. At least in Australia, when we have long boring stretches of road we put a Big Pineapple or Big Banana or Big Lobster or Ayres Rock along the road so tourists can stop and break up the drive. It's why Australia will always be better for tourists than here. I'll be chartering a helicopter next time I need to go up.

 

But then I got thinking, why has Thailand's tourism sector flourished compared to Cambodia? On face value, Cambodia has more to offer;

 

- Better and cleaner beaches and islands around Sihanoukville

- Angkor Wat which should be the 8th wonder of the world

- Mode fascinating history over multiple periods

- More opportunity for adventure and experiences away from crowds

- The same high end accommodation offerings as Thailand

- Great food and beer and cheaper prices

- The capital is right on the Mekong

 

Why hasn't Cambodia caught up to Thailand? Am I missing something obvious here? Thailand is doing a remarkable job all things considered punching above its weight division in my opinion 

Infrastructure iz much better in Thailand.Food is much better.In a big city many people can speak English or some another asian or EU language.Security is big problem in Cambodia as well.I was robbed in Phnom Phen and as I know many expats were robbed as well.Accomodation is much better in Thailand and cheaper.

Cambodia has wonderfull landscapes and women.Banks give more interest on fixed bank accounts(with pretty big taxation).Visa policy is very simple and you can stay there forever.

For life ,LOS is much better than Cambodia.Beer and booze is cheaper in Cambodia.

[Scouse123]

Absolute rubbish,

 

I am back from Phnom Penh two days ago.

 

Bars were packed. Women young and beautiful.

 

Far more bars than Bangkok.

 

Street food, streets ahead of Thailand. Cambodia is thriving.

 

I stayed Sun and Moon hotel at 40 GBP a night.

 

Sauna, steam, infinity pool, happy hours, etc total class hotel

 

Another poster mentioned in interest rates, I've been banking there 15 years, just obtained my new visa, it took me 24 hours.

 

However, I am moving funds to the UK, who are now offering better rates at Nationwide Building society than any bank in Cambodia.

 

No, I won't provide links, except for the hotel google it guys.

 

They spoke impeccable English.

 

https://www.agoda.com/sun-moon-urban-hotel/hotel/phnom-penh-kh.html?finalPriceView=1&isShowMobileAppPrice=false&cid=1919460&numberOfBedrooms=&familyMode=false&adults=2&children=0&rooms=1&maxRooms=0&checkIn=2024-07-31&isCalendarCallout=false&childAges=&numberOfGuest=0&missingChildAges=false&travellerType=1&showReviewSubmissionEntry=false&currencyCode=THB&isFreeOccSearch=false&tag=99779921-229e-403a-94d2-3b408e2076ed&los=3&searchrequestid=09e2e966-d876-4a13-ad5f-69559e52f1f5

[Scouse123]

47 minutes ago, Chosenfew said:

Cambodia killed 2 million of their most educated citizens back in the 70’s. A lot of their children too. They still have not recovered from their stupidity. But hey, still many people love communism…

 What a lot of nonsense,

 

When were you there?

 

I have just come back from there,.

[Scouse123]

13 hours ago, Seth1a2a said:

That's the way they like it.. The donations will keep rolling in for all Cambodians , while only a select few end up rolling in the cash....

6100 donor organizations ....Japan, China, the Asian Development Bank, the World Bank and the USA are the top donors. Aid accounts for approximately 8% of Cambodian GNI and about half of the national budget.    Add to that one of the highest birth rates (approx. 2.34)  in South East Asia.

 

 

 

Yes this is relevant and similar to Myanmar it includes several top military officials as well.

 

Corruption and land issues[edit]

Main article: Corruption in Cambodia

Hun Sen and his family were estimated to have amassed between US$500 million and US$1 billion by Global Witness in 2016,^[91] and a number of allies have also accumulated considerable personal wealth during his tenure

Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hun_Sen

 

 

Yeah,

 

And what is George Bush worth or Vladimir Putin.

[Scouse123]

18 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Simple.. Cambodia is severely lacking in bar girls and ladyboys, compared to their noisy neighbours, hence the sex crazed farang don’t venture there as often if at all

 

Nonsense

[newnative]

     I still remember my first visit to Cambodia with my spouse about 12 years ago.  We took a van to the border and then hired a car to take us to Siem Reap, on National Highway 1, I believe.  The entire trip, almost every cross road to the paved highway was dirt.  

     When we got to Siem Reap, many of the streets were very bumpy gravel.  The pot holes were so deep on some streets that we could barely go walking pace on the 3-wheeled vehicle that took us around town.  When we left Siem Reap to do some touring, it wasn't long after we got out of the town that the electric poles stopped--no electricity after that point.  No electricity out of town and also no running water, wih the houses mostly small  1 or 2 room wooden structures on stilts.

    We both were comparing Cambodia to Thailand--two countries right next door to each other yet one so advanced and the other still so primitive.  We had sort of taken for granted up to that point that most places we went in Thailand we'd be on a good road to get there--and would have electricity and running water when we arrived.  The visit to Cambodia really was an eye-opener as neither of us expected such a stark difference in development.   Happily, we returned to Cambodia in 2017 and we noticed some progress, especially in Siem Reap, where our visit was centered.

[Gottfrid]

19 hours ago, Mekmong MICK said:

 

- Better and cleaner beaches and islands around Sihanoukville

- Angkor Wat which should be the 8th wonder of the world

- Mode fascinating history over multiple periods

- More opportunity for adventure and experiences away from crowds

- The same high end accommodation offerings as Thailand

- Great food and beer and cheaper prices

- The capital is right on the Mekong

 

Why hasn't Cambodia caught up to Thailand? Am I missing something obvious here? Thailand is doing a remarkable job all things considered punching above its weight division in my opinion 

Ok, yeah, there are some misses here. Let´s break it down:

Better and cleaner beaches??? - You must have a memory since like 15 year back in time. Now the whole Sihanoukville is over exploited in a massive way. 

Ankor Wat, might place as the 28th wonder of the world.

The history of both countries have much in common, and both are fascinating.

Thailand will definitely offer more adventures and possible experiences

They have same high end accommodation. However, the same standard goes for a higher price in Cambodia when in comes to renting or buying property.

Food and beer are cheaper, but you will never know when the beef is dogmeat.

Hurray! Mekong river with the cleanest brown water in the world.

If you then continue to talk about the capitol city. Just will just love the horrendous smell from the morning markets all around the city.

[Burma Bill]

20 hours ago, Mekmong MICK said:

Why hasn't Cambodia caught up to Thailand

Simple (IMO) -

 

No sex industry like that in Pattaya, Phuket and Bangkok so no "pervie" tourists flocking in.

 

Strict drug laws - for example, the growing, selling and use of marijuana is officially ILLEGAL, with severe penalties, so no pot head or junkie tourists.

Edited Friday at 08:28 AM by Burma Bill
additional information

[Yagoda]

I live in Siem Reap. For me,

 

its cheaper to live there than it is in Bangkok, but

 

Thailand Infrastructure is better, altho

 

English is better in Siem.

 

Thai food is better.

 

Western food is better in Bangkok.

 

Weed is cheaper in Siem.

 

Visas are easier in Cambodia.

 

I dont like Phnom Penh, Bangkok is superior in every way.

 

 

[Yagoda]

10 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 

 

Strict drug laws - for example, the growing, selling and use of marijuana is officially ILLEGAL, with severe penalties, so no pot head or junkie tourists.

What about me?

[BritManToo]

15 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Simple (IMO) -

 

No sex industry like that in Pattaya, Phuket and Bangkok so no "pervie" tourists flocking in.

 

Strict drug laws - for example, the growing, selling and use of marijuana is officially ILLEGAL, with severe penalties, so no pot head or junkie tourists.

Not so sure on that, the guest house I stay at in Siem Reap has a smoking sala beside the swimming pool and everyone is smoking pot, bags of cannabis on every table. I was told the police don't care what you do on private grounds.

I also had a girl sitting on my lap or rubbing against me within 5 minutes of entering any of the bars.

[vukovar77]

20 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Absolute rubbish,

 

I am back from Phnom Penh two days ago.

 

Bars were packed. Women young and beautiful.

 

Far more bars than Bangkok.

 

Street food, streets ahead of Thailand. Cambodia is thriving.

 

I stayed Sun and Moon hotel at 40 GBP a night.

 

Sauna, steam, infinity pool, happy hours, etc total class hotel

 

Another poster mentioned in interest rates, I've been banking there 15 years, just obtained my new visa, it took me 24 hours.

 

However, I am moving funds to the UK, who are now offering better rates at Nationwide Building society than any bank in Cambodia.

 

No, I won't provide links, except for the hotel google it guys.

 

They spoke impeccable English.

 

https://www.agoda.com/sun-moon-urban-hotel/hotel/phnom-penh-kh.html?finalPriceView=1&isShowMobileAppPrice=false&cid=1919460&numberOfBedrooms=&familyMode=false&adults=2&children=0&rooms=1&maxRooms=0&checkIn=2024-07-31&isCalendarCallout=false&childAges=&numberOfGuest=0&missingChildAges=false&travellerType=1&showReviewSubmissionEntry=false&currencyCode=THB&isFreeOccSearch=false&tag=99779921-229e-403a-94d2-3b408e2076ed&los=3&searchrequestid=09e2e966-d876-4a13-ad5f-69559e52f1f5

Well.I do not know where and when you have been recently,but you do not know much about cambodia.I think you stay in "expat part" of Pnom-Phen near river bank?All other parts of this city is in very bad shape and shabby and dangerous on night time.Traffic is terrific and there is NO PUBLIC transportation at all-tuk tuk and motorcycles only).As I said infrastructure is very poor compared to LOS.I travel all around the Cambodia from Sihanukvile to Phnom Phen by bus and then to Siam Riap.This was adventure.Roads are terrific with many bumps and sometimes closed cos. water floods.Almost everyone try to rip you off from civil servants to ordinary people.Very few people can speak english.Acommodation is far more expensive in Cambodia and it is hard to find good place for good price.Visa policy is OK ,same as booze prices and ordinary girls are nice,but there is a Law there that expats older than 50 can not marry young cam. women.Real-estates are more expensive than in LOS and low quality in general.I love cambodia,but LOS is a far better to live in and Filipines as well.

[Kerryd]

Give it another decade or two and Thailand will have sunk to Cambodian levels in many areas.

China is working hard to get a grip on Thailand the way they've done in Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and other countries from S.E. Asia all the way to the East Coast of Africa (Djibouti).

As a part of their "belt and road" strategy to project power across Asia, China uses "Export Development Banks" (or similar) to loan money to host countries so they can do things like - build hi-speed rail lines, airports, "land bridges", hydro dams, powerplants, toll highways and bridges.

They offer low rate loans and retain ownership/control of the projects until the loan is paid off.

And if you are having problems making the payments (like a lot of poor 3rd world nations that couldn't afford those projects in the first place) then China will offer better conditions - with the granting of certain agreements between those nations.

For example, in Cambodia. China "leased" nearly 20% of Cambodia's entire coastline. "Dara Sakor" is a $3.5 bil (US) "resort hub" that China will control with a 99 year lease. In addition to controlling that coastline, they are building a full-fledged resort with it's own powerplant, medical facilities, casinos, waste treatment plant and - a deep water port.
Oh and a new airport (Dara Sakor Airport), just across the bay from the Ream Naval base. (Intelligence analysts have noted the runways at that new airport are far longer than needed by even the largest commercial passenger or cargo aircraft. But are perfect for fully loaded Chinese bombers to land/take off from.)
(Makes it sound like that "resort" has a different purpose altogether.)

Cambodia also signed a "secret" deal with China (that China promptly revealed) wherein China is granted "dual use" of the Ream Navy base, despite a certain former PM's attempts at denying it because it violates the Constitution.
There are plans to dredge the base to allow the larger Chinese Navy ships to enter and plans to upgrade/enlarge the piers to accommodate those ships. And it seems "someone" told the Cambodians to demolish 2 new "Command and Control" buildings the Americans had built for Cambodia barely 5 years before.
"Someone" was probably worried the buildings were full of CIA spyware.

China has also funded the new $1.1 billion (US) airport outside of Siem Reap which has a 55 year "build/operate/transfer" deal.

They are also building a new $1.5 bil (US) airport 20km south of Phom Penh. "Techo International Airport" is scheduled to open in the "first half of 2025".

China has also got it's hooks into Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Djibouti in a similar fashion and is working on doing the same to other countries in the South Pacific as well as even Afghanistan. (China was the first nation to receive an "official" delegation from the Taliban after the US surrendered to them and let them take over the rest of Afghanistan.)
(Trump signed the Doha agreement with the Taliban in Feb 2020, agreeing to stop attacking the Taliban, to stop "interfering" in local politics and to withdraw all US troops by May 2021. Note that the "official" gov't of Afghanistan was not even invited to those talks. The US basically just gave up on the country and handed it over to the Taliban on a silver platter.)

China is also working on increasing it's "influence" in Thailand in a similar fashion. And they have a lot of supporters high up the food chain.

The recent about face on matters like casinos, changing the "foreign ownership quotas" of condos, expanding the list of "Visa Exempt" countries, high-speed rail lines linking China and Thailand and even increasing the length of the "Visa Exemption" stay (and plans to increase the number of Chinese tourists to Thailand by over 8 million per year) are not a coincidence.
Nor is the recently annouced plan to make a "land bridge" to connect the Andaman Sea and Gulf of Thailand.

Those are the long, slender tentacles of control slowly working their way in until they can get a strong enough grip that the main body can squeeze in and gain "de facto" control.

Most people see a headline and then forget/ignore it. Then see another headline months later and forget/ignore it. Then again. And again.

And then those same people tell you there's nothing to worry about because "it's been like a week and like, nothing has happened so like, there's no such thing as a "slippery slope" and no one is trying to do anything".

And they'll keep saying that even as they are handing their passport to a member of the People's Liberation Army as they go to get an Extension on their Temporary Stay at their local (Thai) Immigration office.

Because these things don't happen overnight. It's the same with other issues. Like how certain religions or ethnic groups move into an area and slowly start exerting their influence on their neighbours.
They don't suddenly show up one Monday morning and start demanding you change your ways (and laws) to accommodate them. It's a slow process that can take decades, even generations, before noticable changes start happening.

But if you are watching for it - the signs are there. Pretty clearly too.

But, unless there is yet another major uprising and yet another military coup, I suspect it's going to take at least a decade before it becomes evident who is really calling the shots in this country and another decade or two before all suspicion is removed entirely.

(This isn't the only part of the world where things are happening and as stuff happens in one place, other things may be afoot elsewhere. Nothing like a couple of high-profile conflicts in one region to draw attention away from things in other regions.)

[Scouse123]

30 minutes ago, vukovar77 said:

Well.I do not know where and when you have been recently,but you do not know much about cambodia.I think you stay in "expat part" of Pnom-Phen near river bank?All other parts of this city is in very bad shape and shabby and dangerous on night time.Traffic is terrific and there is NO PUBLIC transportation at all-tuk tuk and motorcycles only).As I said infrastructure is very poor compared to LOS.I travel all around the Cambodia from Sihanukvile to Phnom Phen by bus and then to Siam Riap.This was adventure.Roads are terrific with many bumps and sometimes closed cos. water floods.Almost everyone try to rip you off from civil servants to ordinary people.Very few people can speak english.Acommodation is far more expensive in Cambodia and it is hard to find good place for good price.Visa policy is OK ,same as booze prices and ordinary girls are nice,but there is a Law there that expats older than 50 can not marry young cam. women.Real-estates are more expensive than in LOS and low quality in general.I love cambodia,but LOS is a far better to live in and Filipines as well.

 

 

 

You just don't see the bigger picture.

 

I am very familiar with Cambodia for over 15/16 years.

[vukovar77]

As of the most recent data, the average monthly salary for a worker in Cambodia is roughly between $150 and $200 USD. This figure can vary greatly depending on factors such as the sector of employment, level of experience, and geographical location within the country.

Poverty is awful.Many disabled people all around.In the countryside you have no water supply and many parts are without electricity.So,"scouse123"you are familliar only in a few bars on river side of Phnom Phen.

In Cambodia, 17.8% of the population lived below the national poverty line in 2019. In Cambodia, the proportion of employed population below $2.15 purchasing power parity a day in 2023 was 20.5%. For every 1,000 babies born in Cambodia in 2022, 24 died before their 5th birthday.

Cambodia is maybe like LOS 70-80 years before.

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by vukovar77

[Burma Bill]

2 hours ago, vukovar77 said:

As of the most recent data, the average monthly salary for a worker in Cambodia is roughly between $150 and $200 USD. This figure can vary greatly depending on factors such as the sector of employment, level of experience, and geographical location within the country.

Poverty is awful.Many disabled people all around.In the countryside you have no water supply and many parts are without electricity.So,"scouse123"you are familliar only in a few bars on river side of Phnom Phen.

In Cambodia, 17.8% of the population lived below the national poverty line in 2019. In Cambodia, the proportion of employed population below $2.15 purchasing power parity a day in 2023 was 20.5%. For every 1,000 babies born in Cambodia in 2022, 24 died before their 5th birthday.

Cambodia is maybe like LOS 70-80 years before.

 

 

 With respect, and thanks for your observations, I totally disagree with your last sentence. For the past 4 years, I have lived in Siem Reap and have appreciated all the new infrastructure projects that have been completed - especially roads and pavements (side walks). I can assure you that Siem Reap does not compare to LOS 70-80 years before! It is far more modern thesedays.

 

 

My photo of Siem Reap taken from the Angkor Big Wheel (another new addition!)

 

By the way, I find the Khmer people far more welcoming and their command of the English language far better than the Thai folk where I lived for 20 years in rural Lanna and Isaan.

 

 

[Yagoda]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not so sure on that, the guest house I stay at in Siem Reap has a smoking sala beside the swimming pool and everyone is smoking pot, bags of cannabis on every table. I was told the police don't care what you do on private grounds.

I also had a girl sitting on my lap or rubbing against me within 5 minutes of entering any of the bars.

Smoking Sala? It's the Old Stoners Table! Us experienced ones sit facing the pool and keep our sunglasses on so as to watch the Backpacker chicks in bikinis. Excellent cheap food too if they can get your order right. 

 

Like Burma Bill said Siem is great. 

 

Phnom pehn is the pits.

[vukovar77]

3 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 With respect, and thanks for your observations, I totally disagree with your last sentence. For the past 4 years, I have lived in Siem Reap and have appreciated all the new infrastructure projects that have been completed - especially roads and pavements (side walks). I can assure you that Siem Reap does not compare to LOS 70-80 years before! It is far more modern thesedays.

 

 

My photo of Siem Reap taken from the Angkor Big Wheel (another new addition!)

 

By the way, I find the Khmer people far more welcoming and their command of the English language far better than the Thai folk where I lived for 20 years in rural Lanna and Isaan.

 

 

Yeah,Siam Reap and some places near the seaside are thriving cos. Agkor and tourism,but Cambodia is far bigger and poverty is high.